Finding Galaxy 3C

[GTH]

Hi, A friend gave us a Coship CDVB 2000 receiver and a dish that measures 34x31. He used it to pick up CCTV and I saw it working. I set it up but I'm having no luck finding a signal.
My zip is 33328 and gps shows 26.0 X 80.16.
I've been looking at elevation 55.4 X 211.1 by slowly moving the dish left to right and slightly changing the elevation but can't move the signal meter off zero. I left the skew where it was because he lived only a couple of miles from me.
Is this a particularly hard to find sat.? I had no trouble setting a DTV dish with single lnb using the same method.
Thanks for any advice,
Tom

 

[Anole]

[FONT=Fixedsys]                         Davie, FL 33328
           Latitude 26° 3.642'N Longitude 80° 16.320'W

                         Sat Name Sat Lng Az(t) Az(m)   El  Skew
----------------------------------------------------------------
                        Galaxy 3C   95.0W 210.9 217.0 55.4  27.5[/FONT]

Sounds pretty good, but you didn't factor in the magnetic offset for your area.
Point more toward 217ºw instead of 211º.
And of course, it's also possible you've got:
- a proken cable,
- bad connection,
- or if there is an in-line switch, maybe it's hooked up wrong.
Don't trust the elevation marking on the dish bracket as accurate - it might be off a few degrees.

But basicially, it sounds like you're pretty well on top of it.

 

[Wescopc]

I looked up you zip code in:
http://www.geosatfinder.com
and found the magnetic at 215° rather than 211°, so you are very close. Do you have the receiver with a TV out where you can see the screen. I have found that you need the immediate feed back this setup provides. FTA is much more difficult than setting up a DTV dish. The dish needs to be set right on!
Bob

PS Anole you posted just as I was writing a response, so if it sounds like we are saying the same thing - well great minds!
Bob

 

[Anole]

I always get a good chuckle when two (sometimes three) folks all rush to help someone.
Shows how friendly we are.
Plus, getting the same info from more than one person makes the OP feel that much more confident he's getting the right idea.
And the best part, we all usually have a little different twist on the answer, so the OP gets an even broader understanding.
There's no such thing as too much help. Not when it comes to this subject.

And as you said - great minds... :up

 

[Tron]

If the person you purchased the dish and receiver from was aimed at the same satellite, I would not touch the dish skew or elevation at all. Two miles away from you makes absolutely no difference, you should be able to set the dish up as-is at your location.

An exception would be if the person you purchased the dish from had the dish on a mounting pole that wasn't quite level. That would throw the elevation (and even possibly the skew) off...

Start by leaving the dish elevation and skew alone, and pan the dish VERY VERY SLOWLY from east to west in the general direction of the satellite. The key here is VERY slow movement, this is much harder than a DirecTV dish to aim. If you can't locate the satellite, you may need to adjust the elevation.

 

[GTH]

Thanks to all for the fast replies.
I was moving the dish much more than a few degrees.

I had to change the elevation since he had the dish mounted to a piece of wood
laying on the ground with a large rock weighing it down (no kidding!). I used the
wall mount for my old single lnb dtv dish but had to move the post off plum to get the position from the larger dish. To set the elevation I used an angle locator.

I have the receiver and tv where I can see them from the dish. I thought I would at least see a flicker on the meter if I moved through the signal, is that true?

I am using RG6 cable, is this ok?

Thanks,
Tom

 

[Wescopc]

When you use the angle indicator (maybe an inclinometer) be sure to factor in the amount of offset that is built into the dish. Usually that would be about 24°. Look at the specs for the dish if you can find them.
As I said before, these dishes have to be "bang" on.
Bob

 

[bill190]

You can't just point your dish to the sky or point your dish to any satellite and get a signal on your receiver signal meter.

First of all, to get a signal on your receiver, you need to point your dish to a *specific* spot in the sky - point your dish to a specific satellite.

The size of the spot you need to aim the dish at is about the size of this ---> O

Then you need to align the dish to be in the center of that spot to get the best reception. This means in the center of the spot up/down and in the center of the spot left/right.

Needless to say, this is like trying to find a needle in a haystack!
Furthermore your receiver has settings for specific satellites and specific frequencies on those satellites. If your dish is pointing at the wrong satellite, you will not get any signal readings if your receiver is set to receive another satellite.

And if your dish is pointed at the correct satellite, and your receiver is set to the same satellite, but you have a frequency (transponder) selected for that satellite which is outdated or has nothing on it, or it is an "encrypted" frequency (Not FTA), then you will not get anything on your receiver signal meter.

Note that frequencies change on satellites quite often. So the frequencies your receiver came with can become outdated between the time the receiver was manufactured and the time you purchased the receiver. You can of course enter a new active FTA frequency/POL/SR.

You will not get anything if your receiver is set to receive a "C-band" frequency (4 digit) and you have a "Ku-band" LNB and dish (Ku band frequencies/transponders are 5 digit numbers).

You *will* get a reading on your receiver signal meter if your dish is pointing at the correct satellite, your receiver is set to receive from the same satellite, and you have an active Free to Air DVB frequency selected for that satellite (or have entered an active FTA DVB frequency) and the frequency is the correct band for your LNB/dish (Ku - 5 digit number for a small dish).

Frequencies for each satellite are listed at lyngsat.com. C-band is 4 digits, Ku band is 5 digits.

Finding the first satellite....

I am aiming my dish at a spot which requires accuracy, so I use accurate instruments. I use an "inclinometer" to be sure my dish is set to the correct height for a specific satellite. And I use a handheld GPS set to actual heading (not magnetic) to find the correct direction to point my dish for a specific satellite. I walk from the dish south multiple times with my GPS until I am walking the correct direction for the satellite. Then place a rock on that spot. Then aim my dish the direction of that rock.

Then I find out the offset amount of my specific dish which can be found at the dish manufacturer's web site. This could be 15 degrees offset, 18, 20, etc. Varies for each dish. This is because the LNB on a offset dish is mounted below the center of the dish. So the dish is actually pointing higher than it looks. The difference is the "offset amount" for the specific dish.

Then I use a dish pointing calculator which takes into consideration my location; longitude and latitude, elevation above sea level, and the specific satellite I am trying to point my dish at.

Here is such a dish pointing calculator...
http://www.satellite-calculations.com/Satellite/lookangles.htm

Accurate longitude and latitude and elevation of your location here. Keep double clicking on map...
http://www.earthtools.org

Then when I plug in all the numbers, I get accurate numbers back...
I get the direction my dish should be pointing (Azimuth). And I get elevation of the satellite or how high to point my dish in the sky. (Subtract dish offset amount from this.)

Then I can use my "inclinometer" to set my dish at the correct height and use my handheld GPS to point my dish the correct direction. Then I am pretty close to where that satellite is.

Next I attach a coax signal meter to my LNB. This will get a reading for any satellite and any frequency! Much easier to find any satellite with this gizmo.

Now I am in the ballpark for finding that first satellite. I usually just need to move my dish a little up/down or left/right to find it. About the size of a baseball.

Take some time and read this...
http://www.geo-orbit.org/sizepgs/tuningp4.html

 

[GTH]

Wow, Bill, no wonder I couldn't find it, I would have better odds winning the lotto!
Now that I know what to do and where to find the tools I'll get to work.

Thanks so much for everyone's help.

 

[GTH]

dish offset

I cant find specs on my dish. if I set the angle using the scale (I changed to the mount provided with the dish so I'm back to plum) and then measure the dish angle by laying a straight edge across the dish I get about 66 degrees instead of the indicated 54. I know the 54 isn't accurate but it seems to me that if the dish is looking higher than it appears that the actual angle across the diameter would be less, wouldn't it?

 

[Wescopc]

Could it be that you need to subtract 66° from 90°? Often you need to figure which way the inclinometer is reading vs the angle from horizontal you need.
If that is the case then your indicated angle would be 90-66=24°. That would be in the ball park for an offset of 27 to 30°.
ie 24°+30° = 54°
Bob

 

[Anole]

saying it another way

Scroll down on this page and see some specs on the Fortec Star 80cm dish.
Most important is: Offset Angle - 22.75º
That's a fairly common and representative dish, even if it's not the exact one you have.

So,, if you put a yardstick across the dish, then measure 90º to that...
...which is where the dish appears to be pointed...
the dish is actually pointed 22.75º higher in the sky.
And the elevation markings on the mount should agree (pretty well) with what I said.
There may be a few degrees of elevation error, but that's normal.

Additionally, and as was stated above, you cannot sweep the dish across the sky and expect the receiver to "see" the bird when it passes by it.
The receiver has to be tuned to an active (and preferably stronger) transponder for that satellite.
Then, you need to make your sweep very slowly, and in very small increments.

Due to the higher accuracy of the bigger dishes, the smaller beamwidth they have, and the relatively lower power of the satellites, this is a bit harder than finding DBS satellites.
Those, I've hit by hand-holding a small (18" - 20") dish.

Some discount them, but I also found the $10 satellite meters helpful in locating FTA satellites.
If you have one, give it a try.

...looks like the great minds are at it again...

 

[Wescopc]

There is a free program that will calculate your offset it's called Satellite Antenna Alignment. You can down load it here:
http://www.al-soft.com/saa/satinfo.shtml
I took your dish size of 31 X 34 inches - converted it to mm of 787 X 863 and entered into the program. It shows 24.23° as the offset. Remember that the calibration of a given dish elevation scales is sometimes off by up to +/-10°.
Bob

 

[GTH]

Ok, I see if I turn the inclinometer to the other surface I come up with 30. I just need to keep looking assuming all the parts are in working order and the frequencies are set correctly.

 

[GTH]

Dish pointed South?

I've been busy with other stuff the past few days. The guy who supplied the setup is coming over Sunday to help.
Meanwhile I brought up his old house on Flash Earth and see that he had the dish pointed south. The receiver had G3C as the sat and the side of the house on which he always had it could only point that way. Any idea what he locked on to?
I'd ask him but he's out of town.

 

[Mr Tony]

he probabably was on G3

217 degrees is SSW in the sky 9180 is dead south) so he probably was on there if he had CCTV

 

[GTH]

Sorry, don't know what I was thinking. It looks like he could go a little SW.