Finally!

[Dee_Ann]

I too had problems with the paint chipping and peeling on the Dish. I lightly sanded those spots and sprayed a few coats of Rustoleum Primer. Then I painted the whole dish. As for the back,where most of the paint problems were at, I sprayed ( 3 cans) of Rubberized Undercoating over the whole thing.

Very nice!

I would have never thought of that.
And thank you, and all the other guys for sharing your ideas and pictures. This is all very helpful to me, I'm starting to see what and where I'm having trouble and I think I may be able to muddle through this.

I really, really, REALLY want to be watching MeTV, like really soon! OMG, I've been watching their line up on Titan and they have sooooooo many shows that I adore and miss so much!! I can't wait!!!

Thank you!!

 

[zamar23]

I too had problems with the paint chipping and peeling on the Dish. I lightly sanded those spots and sprayed a few coats of Rustoleum Primer. Then I painted the whole dish. As for the back,where most of the paint problems were at, I sprayed ( 3 cans) of Rubberized Undercoating over the whole thing.

What did you paint the dish with? Did you compare signal S and Q before and after painting the dish?

 

[dougruss]

What did you paint the dish with? Did you compare signal S and Q before and after painting the dish?

I used Rustoleum's "Satin Black" on the Face of the Dish.

There was NO change in S and Q after painting it.

 

[Dee_Ann]

Progress... I think.........

Ok... So I went out there today and for starters, I figured out a way to mount the motor that looks like it's not in some weird angled up binding goofiness.

Then I did my best to set point the dish towards true south, by eye. Oh my...

Then, I tightened up all the loose bolts. There were a LOT of them.
And of course I do not have the right tools so that made it more fun than I needed it to be.

My dad has been trying to "tool me up" so I will have some basic tools for simple home repairs and a few loaners to get these dishes put up. But of course I don't know what tools to ask for to borrow so I have all the wrong tools. Anyway....

So, I went to dishpointer.com and got my PRECISE location of the dish to the inch spotted on the map and told it I need the setting for a motorized dish. I saw an entry for a Superjack DG120 which I ~think~ is a C-band motor for a big dish. Right?

Here is the info it gave me for setting the dish.

Motor Latitude: 30.0°
Declination Angle: 5.0°
Dish Elevation: 35°
Azimuth (true): 180.0°
Azimuth (magn.): 177.6°


I then took my iPhone and brought up the angle meter app and set the phone on top of the mount and adjusted the BIG vertical bolt up and down until the meter read 30 degrees then tightened it up.

Right??

And now I am at a stopping point.

I put the phone against various places on the dish and I couldn't even come remotely close to finding anything that reads 5 degrees. That bolt on the bottom that tips the dish up and down, it won't let me tip the dish down to 5 degrees. At best I can get it tipped down to like 12 degrees.

So obviously I am doing something wrong there. I may have the meter in the wrong place or I may be adjusting the wrong bolt or maybe the dishpointer site is showing me the wrong info..

I think I may be able to eventually do this. I guess I need one of those magnetic meters you guys keep showing.

 

[turbosat]

Yep a magnetic base angle-meter is almost a necessity, once I finally got one I saw how useful they are. The declination on a polar mount dish is set once, and usually you don't ever have to change it again. I can't tell from the bottom of that last picture you posted, but I think the bolt that attaches the bottom of the dish to the botton of the mount is where you can adjust the declination. Knowing where to place the meter to measure the angle, now, is another story lol. Maybe I can do a mock-up on one of mine tomorrow and post it for you, so you'll "get it". It's easier than try to explain it! You are going to be an experienced installer very soon, hehe.

 

[Anole]

You're doin' fine. Look what you've already accomplished. I have 100% confidence in ya.

Now, here's what declination is: Footprints by Dish Size - Latitude Declination Chart - C/Ku-Band Satellite Listing

And here are pictures showing the two simple angles you need to set on your dish, when it's aimed at the top of the arc (true south):
Footprints by Dish Size - Latitude Declination Chart - C/Ku-Band Satellite Listing

I am sure I gave you these before, but maybe too early and certainly in a different thread.
Give 'em a read when you are relaxed.
Don't worry about all the mumbo-jumbo, just look at the pictures.
They convey the most info.

 

[Dee_Ann]

Ok..

So. I got to thinking that I was putting the angle meter (my iPhone) on the wrong part of the dish mount.

So I checked it again and moved it to another spot right dead center in the hole in the middle of the dish, right above the hinge pivot where it tilts up and down.

Still showing 30 degrees either way I put it.

The thing that I can not grasp / comprehend though is this, "Declination Angle: 5.0°"

No place on the dish or any of it's parts or brackets or mounts can I get a reading of 5 degrees no matter how I tip things around.

Whoooooooooooosh! Right over my head!

Anyway..

I found a very long piece of aluminum square tubing. I think it's left over from our old patio doors. It's pure aluminum.

I found out earlier that when I get too close to the dish with the iPhone in compass mode it goes bonkers and renders the compass useless.

Fine..

So I took this piece of aluminum waaaaay out in the yard, laid it on the ground and moved the iPhone back and forth right over it and it had zero effect on the compass. I was pretty sure that would be the case but I wasn't sure this thing is pure aluminum. It seems to be.

So, I then took the tube and tied it to the dish brackets so that it is perfectly square with the dish hardware. I tied it very tight to the mounts so it can not move.

Then I walk way out away from the dish to the end of the tube and put the iPhone up to it, holding the flat edge of the phone square against the tube. I see that I am not lined up on north/south like I ~thought~ I was.

Now what I'm wondering, do I aim the whole thing at a certain satellite now? Or do I am the whole thing north/south?

Azimuth (true): 180.0°
Azimuth (magn.): 177.6°


Which one do I go by? Should I point the compass/dish to 177.6 or to 180.0 ?

This true / magnetic stuff, I don't really follow. I have heard the north pole is moving because the core of the earth is moving or something like that.

Or do I aim at the whole bleeping thing at Galaxy 3C at 95W ? According to dishpointer.com, from where I am, it is at:
Azimuth (true): 182.1°- Azimuth (magn.): 179.7°
And if so, on the compass, do I move the dish until the compass reads 182 or 179?

This compass stuff is frustrating... I see four potential directions to aim it at.. I can not figure out which one is the right one.

Once I get it aimed at the right place on the compass I can remove that aluminum tube and try again to get that stupid other adjustment set, the declination.

Also, something I realized, the motor arm is fully retracted.
And in the process of handling it, I accidentally spun the motor or the shaft or something, a few times in various directions so now it is NOT in the same state it was delivered to me in. Ooooopsy!

And shouldn't the motor arm be extended, like, half way out when the dish is pointed to true south? That way it can extend to the east or retract to pull the dish to the west. Right?

As it is now, there is no way physically possible for the dish to move west, it can move waaaaay east though. Something is not right there just yet.


I'm still not ready to jump into the LNB yet. That's a whole other problem. For now I am trying to remain focused on the back of the stupid thing.

Thanks guys..

 

[Skyv1]

Think of the 5 degree declination angle as an offset.
The dish should point 5 degrees above the mount, therefore the 35 degree dish elevation number that you were given by dishpointer.
In other words, you're adding 5 degrees to thirty.
So, you should measure 35 degrees at the back, or leading edge, of the dish, whichever is easier to reach for you.

A compass will show magnetic north and that's what you are expected use as a heading.

An old and reliable shortcut is to use the sun for pointing.
In your case, with those Ku dishes so handy, you could point one of them at whatever satellite you desire to find with the C-Band BUD.
At the right time of day(likely early afternoon), the sun will line up with the Ku dish and then you can loosen the actuator clamp and swing the BUD along the arc into the same position.
If you've tightened your mount down well and set your offset properly, the dish(BUD) should faithfully track the "Clark Arc".
At that point in the proceedings, you are ready to let the actuator back down towards the clamp to where the dish is lower than your lowest satellite, tighten the clamp and program the reciever.
From the pictures, it looks to be a 24 inch arm and that's plenty for a six foot dish. In fact, it would easily handle a 10 foot.

 

[Anole]

link error:

Had the wrong link in my post above. Here is the corrected one:

And here are pictures showing the two simple angles you need to set on your dish, when it's aimed at the top of the arc (true south):
Footprints by Dish Size - Adjusting the Polar Mount for Prime Focus Antenna - C/Ku-Band Satellite Systems - Tuning, Tracking, Azimuth, Elevation, Declination Angles, F/D Ratio, Focal Distance, Inclinometer, LNB/Feedhorn Assembly, Actuator Assembly, C

Check the pictures - should help a bunch.

 

[Dee_Ann]

I took a few days away from this stupid thing.

I'm giving up on it. I can not comprehend how this freakin thing is supposed to be done. I do not get it.
I loaded the birddog up with a bunch of C-band satellites, put the squealy meter in the line and went out back to see if I could find ANY satellite through sheer dumb luck. Nope....... Sure can't.


So. How does one go about finding someone to pay to come do this without getting taken to the cleaners?

My luck some yahoo would come out here and treat me like an idiot, which I am, and tell me everything is junk and try to sell me all new stuff.

I have had dealings with people that refuse to work on things other people started or touch parts that someone else put in.

• That's the wrong part. You have to replace it.
• That's junk. You have to replace it.
• Who ever did this is an idiot. I'm not touching it.
• Who's the idiot that put all this junk in here all wrong? I'm not touching it.
• This stuff is outdated. You have to replace it.
• This stuff is burned out. You have to replace it.

etc.. etc...

In other words, rip off artists that are only good at making a HUGE profit by making you buy all new stuff, from them, of course.
Parts and labor baby..


Are there any satellite installers left that install C-Band for people?
As I mentioned before, I have not seen one single C-Band satellite dish in my city in at least 10 years, maybe more. Pizza dishes are like mushrooms though. Everyone has one.

IF I can find someone to come make this stupid thing work, how much should I expect to have to pay? I certainly don't want to overpay as I don't have money running out of my ears these days. The grocery store and the gas pump keeps me so broke that I have little to nothing left over for things ~I want~... It's very tough just to make due on ~basic needs~..

I concede defeat. I can not do this.

 

[richyrich]

I for one, concede that C Band is not any easy thing to accomplish for the first time. If you have the main work done, pole, dish on pole; expect to pay a pro about 85 per hour. Some will quote a price per job, and arcing a big dish if everything else is ok, should take a couple of hours, so if they quote more, keep looking. If I lived in Texas, mileage will be charged for distances over, say 100 miles and less, depending on the company, so ask about that too.

I live too far from Texas to go myself.

If you want to keep trying, the main angle you need to achieve is true south, where you will find in Texas, probably AMC 15/18. Program only this satellite into your birdog. Your dish should be almost as high an angle as the mount, and they should almost line up, and both should be facing south. The mount angle should be set at about 51 degrees from horizontal (this is the largest part of the mount, which is a heavy rectangular square, where the dish pivots from). If you hook a birdog, or any meter for this matter, to a bad lnb, it will read below 50 in signal, and never beeps, or if lnb is shorted bad, it will turn off and tone out as it does.

Once your numbers on your mount are correct, and you move the dish and mount due south, look at your signal meter continuosly, look for the number in signal to go up or down, this tells you the lnb/dish combo is working correctly, and you are passing other sats. Draw a line behind the dish, where you think true south is. Point the dish at it highest arc in line with the mount, and the mount; pointing the line you drew. Now move the dish a little east, watch the meter, when you see it change even one number, stop, and move the elevation bolt up or down a little, watching the meter, if it goes up, keep going in that direction. Soon you will find the one satellite you need, the one to the most true south of you, and the meter will beep, and you can peak the dish from there, put more sats in the meter, make the dish move to them, and get them all; but first, you have to get the most southerly satellite from your location on earth, which is the highest in the sky, program only it into the meter, AND if you FIND IT FIRST, the rest is easy...When you find it, it will amaze you, that you finally got the one you needed. Without this first satellite, it will be very hard to do anything else. Go for the first and only satellite you need, you'll get it...

 

[hwm]

In my experience, C band dish aiming is a less critical than Ku band, and it's easier to find a signal.

The dish mount must be at the highest point of its arc when aiming the the whole deal at the true south sat. This should put the actuator at its mid-point.

Forget the squealy meter. You need to find a strong transponder on your true south satellite. Use your BirdDog or a receiver and small tv.

Buy a magnetic base angle indicator. I paid less than $15 for mine at Home Depot.

I suggest you download and print out the BUD Manual PDF files FatAir has put together here: http://www.satelliteguys.us/c-band-satellite-discussion/222234-bud-manual.html

Keep studying and trying. You can do it.

 

[Anole]

I concede defeat. I can not do this.

No, no, no. Not acceptable. :rant:

I haven't read Fat Air's BUD manual mentioned above, but the two links I gave in posts above were where I learned BUD alignment.

Not wanting to write another FAQ, I will give you the six basic steps (in this order) to Basic BUD Adjustment 101:

- 1. - plumb the pole. Set it right (not half a bubble off), set it once, and you're done!

- 2. - move the dish to the top of the arc. As you sweep the dish (motor) from east to west, in the middle the dish will be pointed higher in the sky, than at either end. Set it there, lock it down, and leave it for this exercise!

- 3. - skew the LNBF to zero. Find out what LNBF you have, and how to twist it in its mount, to set it to zero at the top of the arc (also known as TS [true south]).
As a rule of thumb on the C & Ku LNBFs, you set their mark or their zero to "up" or 12 o'clock position.
The C-band LNBFs like the GeoSatPro C2 or WSI/Galaxy 242, their zero mark goes at 9 o'clock.
(double check, as this is from memory)
Set it, lock it, and forget it.

Okay, three of the six steps are DONE! How hard was that ?

- 4. - look up the required declination, and set it on your dish.
Without pictures and a discussion of using the inclinometer, I'm not going to explain this step in detail.
But if I were writing a FAQ, this would be -easy- to do!
Anyone who can subtract 40 - 6 in their head, can do it right the first time!
Once set, you lock it in place, and never have to be concerned again.

- 5. - set the dish elevation for your area. (to get dish aimed at your TS satellite)
This is real easy with an inclinometer, and not too hard without one.
This you firm up, but don't lock. You may fine tune it later to find your first bird.

- 6. - twist the mount on the pole (where your Dad built that adapter) to adjust azimuth (east/west) for your TS bird.
Naturally, you want to aim the dish due south (180°).
What the magnetic south is, is where you aim if you are using a compass to get the dish to real 180°.
So, if your magnetic is 178°, use a compass and aim your dish to 178° and it WILL be aimed due south.
That's all there is to it.
Do not lock down this adjustment, just firm it up.

That is Basic BUD Adjustment 101
Hook up your receiver (or meter), set the LO to 5150 (or as required), select H or V and a transponder on your TS satellite, and look for a signal.
Repeat steps 5 & 6 'till you got your first reception.
Quit while you're ahead.
Further fine tuning would be Advanced BUD Adjustment 102.

Reading the thread above, I can't tell what aiming angles you should use.
There are two sets you posted, and they don't agree.
What is your city or ZIP code?

 

[Magic Static]

Dee you need a better angle finder, One of those cheap ones mentioned before like most of the guys use. You can tell from the pictures that your dish is nowhere near ther correct elevation setting. It looks like a dish up in Canada or Alaska. Remember the KU offset looks way down compared to the Prime focus dish (C-Band) Yours needs to point more to the sky than the ground at your location. The cheap angle finder will allow you to take nice pictures of the adjustments and better help us to help you get goin'. We can take this one step at a time.

 

[Magic Static]

Another question. What are you using to control the dish mover(motor)? VBox/GBox? Do you have the wires run for that yet? You asked about moving the dish to the west. You will need to adjust the clamp on the mover. Loosen it and let the dish move to the west until the clamp is near the rubber seal on the tube, and tighten it down there. Then you can power up the controller and move the dish east.

 

[uniden8000]

C band advice

If anyone could give me some advice. I am thinking about tossing what was once a great c-band system. It has been in a garage now for 8 years. I have no idea what is in the sky and if these c-band and ku-band recievers/tuners even pick up anything relevant anymore. Mostly used for sports channels and feeds

I have a 10 foot mesh dish - good shape - pole, actuator etc -.

I have a Uniden 8000 ish - c band and ku band reciever

I have a texas instuments or general instruments reciever C band (used as a slave)

I have a texas instrument - that has a deciferII (or something like that) descrambler that would unscramble all c-band cannels without sound (fine for sports)

then I have yards of wire and what ever

1- Is the dish worth keeping - if I upgraded to the modern tuners? or is it just easier to start from scratch
2- Are these tuners good for anything?
3- overall what if any value is left in this equipment?
4- If it is near worthless - any lead on anyone that might want it - maybe take it to Mexico or something? I am in So California.

5- what is the cost of the most modern satallite dish system - and what is the name of the signals now - is it DTV or ??? - I am guessing that no days the dish can pick up digital signals throughout the old spectrum. link me to the proper forum if it is on here.

thanks for any advice -

signed - a man who lived the dream when c-band was utopia during the late 80s early 90s -

 

[FaT Air]

The thing that I can not grasp / comprehend though is this, "Declination Angle: 5.0°"

Dee_Ann You don't measure 5.0° but you will adjust the dish mounting for a difference of 5.0° between the dish and the polar mount planes. Either polar elevation to dish elevation or Latitude to extreme. There's where the 5.0° come into play. I think the light bulb will light if you study this picture. (I know that the "Modified Declination Angle" changes the Latitude angle slightly, but only by fractions of a degree) Setting to Latitude will get close enough to get signal.

 

[macgod79]

Dee you can get it I did and I was just as frusterated as you are now. Look at where on dishpointer it should be facing in your yard. It really doesn't have to be perfect. Make sure your dish is at its peak. Then if you move the whole mount very slighty east til u get signal if not move it the other direction. The reason I said get a small tv set and use the receiver is you can check it a lot easier. Read my post finally got my 6 footer setup. I have the same dish and in that post is pics where you measure to get the correct angles dee. I'm sure my post will help

 

[Dee_Ann]

My frustration with this thing is off the scale.
I very, very seriously do not get it.

So I called my dad and asked him if he had one of those gauges.

He did have an old one and a digital one and said I could borrow either one. I asked to borrow the old one because the digital stuff might give me a problem. And because all the pictures you guys have shown are of the non digital kind.

So, my dad brought the old gauge / meter / whatever over when he was out on errands today.

Two things I see that are a problem with this thing is that unlike my iPhone, you can't change the zero position on it. This thing was made to be used on horizontal surfaces it appears. So when you stick it on different angles the zero isn't straight up and you get the wrong reading on it..

In respect to that, there is only one magnet on one of the two edges on it so that makes it tough to stick it different ways to different things.


I guess it will work though not as easy as a more expensive one would. I guess I need to locate and purchase a more versatile model. But for now this is all I can get. It's also missing the clear cover and the little needle was bent a tiny bit. It's plastic though so I tried to straighten it out a little bit, it's pretty close to straight now.


So I went out back and tried to stick the thing to the dish. At first there was no way to attach it to any of the tilt brackets. So one of the bolts that tip it up, I adjusted to tip it up as far as it would go and I was then able to get the thing on one of the brackets in the center. But the zero was not up, at the 12'oclock position and that made the needle point to the wrong numbers. So do you like add or subtract 90 because the zero is not up? Right? That makes sense to me. Or, maybe not. I don't know. On this one you can only stick it along one edge with the magnet, the other edge doesn't have one.

On my iPhone I can press a button and it will reorient itself and put the zero straight up to 12'oclock no matter which edge you put it.


As for the angle to point these big dishes, someone said they should point up higher than the little ku dishes.

I looked at them and they are all marked with elevation marks and skew marks. I can deal with that. They are MARKED. Anyway, so most of them are at elevations like 50 or more.

Dishpointer has been telling me the dish should be on elevation of 30. WUT???

Can not be right....

When I select 95w Galaxy 3C which is extremely close to true south from where I am, off by only 2 degrees I think, dishpointer says the elevation is 55 degrees. That does NOT jive with the 30 degrees it has been telling me when I tell it I have a motorized dish. I'm thinking that it's giving me the settings for motorized ku dishes.

The big dish is not offset like the ku's so it has to point directly at the satellite, as someone mentioned earlier. So the information dishpointer is giving me is all wrong.

I don't know what to use as a basis for setting these stupid things!

I need an idiot meter. One that just sits there waiting for you to aim at ANYTHING. When you aim at something, anything, it figures out what you are one, beeps to let you know to STOP HERE AND NOW and then it says "Hey stupid! You just found Galaxy 19!"

The birddog meter, you have to preselect a satellite and it doesn't alert you at all unless you are dead on it. Useful huh? You may be on the satellite just one spot over from the one you want but it won't tell you ANYTHING, not even that you are on the wrong satellite much less on any satellite.

It's like pin the tail on the donkey. I find the birddog meter very unfriendly and difficult to use. I've had better luck just using it to power the squealy meter and combined with dumb luck I have managed to find most of the ku satellites. But then with those you preset the elevation and skew to known values then it's a simple matter of pointing in the general direction then slowly moving until the squealy gives the highest reading. Tighten it down and go inside to check and usually I've got it.

I took a picture of all the dishes and you can see that with the big dish set to the 30 degrees that dishpointer says to use, it's at about the same angle as the little ku dishes. WAIT! That can NOT be right! The satellites are at a higher angle than the dish appears to be pointing! It bounces in on an angle. And the big dish, does not. So it has to be aimed much higher in the sky than the ku's appear to be aimed. Right??


Is there a computer program for aiming these stupid things? Everything I've found on the internet is just about little ku dishes. I can't figure out how to aim the stupid things through math. I stink at math. BADLY... I can not do geometry, at all. I have to use a calculator to do even the most basic math.

The other thing I can not understand, at all, is why there are TWO angle settings! WHY??????
Why not just have ONE setting on the angle? That's as stupid as stupid can be!


OH, I found a photo of the mounting stuff for the big ten foot dish when I but it out of the weeds last year. I took photos of the stuff before I sent it off with my dad who took it apart, cleaned it all up, took the rust off and painted it for me. Now that he took it apart all the bolts are moved now. It WAS set by the last person that owned it. I can tell from looking at the before photos that it aparently was aimed very much higher in the sky than I've been aiming this 6 foot dish. I can't say that for sure because I never saw that dish and don't even know where it came from originally.


Also, the 10 foot dish, doesn't seem to have two elevation angle settings on it! MAKES SENSE TO ME!
If it doesn't need two settings, why does the little one?? Grrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!!!

Ok, here some photos of what I've got now..

Oh, and someone asked about the motor. No, the motor is not at all connected to anything yet. Eventually it will be. For the immediate future I do not care a flip about the motor, I want to park this thing on 87 AMC 3 and leave it there until mid summer. I do have a Gbox but I want to use it on the BIG ten foot dish. I'll get another Gbox this summer. Hopefully I can catch a sale on em.

Thanks....



edit: I found the following information on the WS website about this dish.

Model WS1870P

Type Prime

Diameter 180 cm

Panels (sections) 6

Aperture Efficiency 70% min.

C – Band Gain @4.0 GHz 35.89 dB

KU – Band Gain @12.5 GHz 45.54 dB

F/D Ratio 0.38

Focus Length 682 mm


I know this is important about how to set the bleepin LNB to the right place, it rotates in the mount and it moves in and out towards/away from the dish.

OMG this thing has me a nervous wreck! My nerves are on the raw edge so bad that my hair is falling out. If I can't get this thing figured out like really, really soon I'm scrapping it all. I can't afford this stress and frustration..

 

[Dee_Ann]

THIS!!!!!!!!!




THIS has been making me insane! Everything I have read so far has been totally NOT the right thing. I thought "elevation" was how much you tilt the dish. It's "polar axis".. And I've seen nothing at all anywhere until this about this setting. Dishpointer was telling me to set the elevation to 30. That can not be right. This polar axis though, is a much different number!

I am at latitude 30 (29.96).. If I aim the dish at 30 degrees as you see in the picture above, it does not make sense.

BUT, if I use the method in this graphic, it would put the dish at SIXTY which would put it higher in the sky and that makes more sense.

I THINK the dish is supposed to be tipped to 60 degrees, not 30. 60 makes sense, 30 does not.

Right??


Today is DO OR DIE day... Die trying... I'm gonna get that d**n thing to work if it hairlips the pope!