External Hard Drive Archive Bug Thread

[David_Levin]

David, I did read the earlier pages about keys, but I'm not sure what you mean by "let the receiver remate the hard drive". It appears that if I hit the "yes" button in the 866 message box, the disk will be reformatted and all files lost. I've tried disconnecting/power downing things in different sequences without effect.

How exactly do you recommend I procede?

Hal

Problem is I don't memorize message box numbers. If 866 is the reformat message then you are correct and you will lose your programming. Perhaps with the implementation of the "Household Key" the box will no longer allow ANY swaps. And, you're box has lost it's key.

I have (so far) "moved" 4 or 5 drives since the implementation of the Household key. All have been fine. I've also set up 2 new drives without any problems. It sounds like you've run into something different.

It might be worth starting a new thread specifically for this problem. Could is be a specific HDD model having issues?

Perhaps dish will come up with a fix for you that doesn't involve a reformat, but don't hold your breath. If you're really compter savy you might be able to try the Linux method of moving programs:

http://www.satelliteguys.us/1280090-post1.html

 

[David_Levin]

The drive I have problems with is the one I moved content too immediately after updating the key. I let dish know this and maybe that is part of the problem or can lead them in the right direction.

That is a good observation. I just hope the CSR forwards the info to the Engineers. The people who are hosed up should realize that even if Dish figures out why the key was lost they may still not get the programs back.

People might also want to jot down their "Household Key" and verify that it is stable (hasn't changed).

Dish really needs to spend some time improving the robustness of the HDD file system. Keys and directory structures should be written twice and cross-checked.

 

[Hal Greenlee]

866 and hh keys

I've been trying to digest this and the "moving" thread's messages, and want to pose a possible scenario for the problem; feel free to shoot it down as too simplistic or my assumptions wrong:

1. It appears that E* has recently exchanged the "3 strikes" protection for "household key" protection.

2. Although the hh keys feature may have been downloaded in the last update some time back, it sounds like keys were left at 000000 and not loaded with unique numbers until recently (within last 30 days?)

3. If memory serves, the people who got 866 messages (no others) are users of drives which, unless reconfigured, "sleep" and are off 99+ % of the time, such as the Free Agent.

So is it possible that if the external drive was not active when the new key numbers were sent that it would then not "have" or "get" the new key?

If that WERE the case, maybe a fix (IF E* can figure out how to to do it) would be to return those keys to 000000 and, if the drive again works, resend the new hh key while the drive is actually turning. Or some other variant of this?

Just punching around in the dark, I admit.

Hal

 

[Timpanogos]

Great explanation. Does Dish monitor this web site? They should pay you for your engineering expertise!

 

[David_Levin]

3. If memory serves, the people who got 866 messages (no others) are users of drives which, unless reconfigured, "sleep" and are off 99+ % of the time, such as the Free Agent.

That is a VERY interesting idea. The problem does seem to have happened to only a very small number of people so this would make sense.

So let's hear from those 866 people... Does this apply ?

Dish shouldn't need to reset the household key to 0000. What they really need is a way to remotely reset & reload the external hdd key via satellite. There could be other reasons to have this ability. Let's say a person gets married and brings his hdd to his spouses house. Or, what if a person moves? Would the household key stay the same ?

I'm guessing they didn't anticipate this need and this ability is not part of the 622/722 software.

 

[Hal Greenlee]

866

I hope this situation CAN be resolved. I've spoken with a CSR tonight and to the supervisor. Trouble is they say they don't know about household keys, so they can only submit reports. They also say they have no way to change whatever keys I am talking about. And they claim to have no way they or I can contact engineering directly.

However, if nothing is forthcoming, I won't stop with that.

Looking for other comments.

Hal

 

[primetimeguy]

That is a VERY interesting idea. The problem does seem to have happened to only a very small number of people so this would make sense.

So let's hear from those 866 people... Does this apply ?

My experience says no as I have three Free Agents. Two of them work fine after the key update. The only one I have problems with is the one I moved programs to the same day the key was changed. I have verified I can move programs to and from both of the other drives. It does appeat that somehow this third drive of mine lost it's key.

I've exhanged a few email with Dish and they did ask for a bunch of info about my receiver and drive to forward on to engineering. This was a week ago. I've sent a couple more email since with no real update. The last one I sent I said I wanted a phone call back for an update

I'm going to call this weekend sometime and see how far I get.

 

[Hal Greenlee]

Primetimeguy, questions:

Were any of your three drives set to sleep "never"? Or do you use them frequently?

Hal

 

[AdamGott]

I've been trying to digest this and the "moving" thread's messages, and want to pose a possible scenario for the problem; feel free to shoot it down as too simplistic or my assumptions wrong:

1. It appears that E* has recently exchanged the "3 strikes" protection for "household key" protection.

2. Although the hh keys feature may have been downloaded in the last update some time back, it sounds like keys were left at 000000 and not loaded with unique numbers until recently (within last 30 days?)

3. If memory serves, the people who got 866 messages (no others) are users of drives which, unless reconfigured, "sleep" and are off 99+ % of the time, such as the Free Agent.

So is it possible that if the external drive was not active when the new key numbers were sent that it would then not "have" or "get" the new key?

If that WERE the case, maybe a fix (IF E* can figure out how to to do it) would be to return those keys to 000000 and, if the drive again works, resend the new hh key while the drive is actually turning. Or some other variant of this?

Just punching around in the dark, I admit.

Hal

A decent theory but one of my drives was completely disconnected and powered down and it worked without a hitch when I plugged it in to test it a few days ago. I have successfully been able to use three external USB drives on one of my 622's and none on the other. The non-working receiver tells me that I need to format so now I am trying to transfer all of my crap to two of my externals and I will go ahead and let it reformat that. The trouble with this is that it takes a long long long time to move this much data around using a 622... I have an external 500 gig on one of my computers and I ordered an internal 500 gig last week so I will probably end up using that 500 gig external as a guinea pig for a while.

 

[David_Levin]

I have successfully been able to use three external USB drives on one of my 622's and none on the other. The non-working receiver tells me that I need to format so now I am trying to transfer all of my crap to two of my externals and I will go ahead and let it reformat that.

Are you saying the SAME DRIVE that works on one 622 requests a reformat on the other? Did you ever check to see if both boxes are running the same software and Household Key?

 

[primetimeguy]

Primetimeguy, questions:

Were any of your three drives set to sleep "never"? Or do you use them frequently?

Hal

Nope, all of them still have the default sleep time. I just power them up when I need one and power it off when done.

 

[Hal Greenlee]

household confusion keys

So the only thing relatively certain seems to be that whenever the hh keys were downloaded, they didn't always install properly.

We can tell if the receivers got theirs, but only indirectly about the EHD's.

And what would be the remedy? Repeating the download a number of additional times?

Hal

 

[David_Levin]

And what would be the remedy? Repeating the download a number of additional times?

Hal

No way to tell without knowledge of the 622/722 source code (anything else would be speculation).

 

[odbrv]

People might also want to jot down their "Household Key" and verify that it is stable (hasn't changed).

Dish really needs to spend some time improving the robustness of the HDD file system. Keys and directory structures should be written twice and cross-checked.

I just got the 788 message on one of my 622s. I checked the household key on my 2 622s. They were different in the last digit. I then called Dish and got a CSR who never heard of this issue. He submitted a report to whoever?? He then checked with other CSR and text messaged advanced Tech support. Nobody had any idea other than to do a rehit and when it didn't work to select yes. I did and got to manage my EHD and I was able to view stored programs. I checked the Household key and it changed in all digits. I then went to my other 622 and checked the household key; the 2 units now match. I was able to manage my other EHD and play programs.

 

[murky]

...Nobody had any idea other than to do a rehit and when it didn't work to select yes. I did and got to manage my EHD and I was able to view stored programs. I checked the Household key and it changed in all digits. I then went to my other 622 and checked the household key; the 2 units now match. I was able to manage my other EHD and play programs.

Please elaborate on the "rehit" and selecting "yes"? I don't know what you mean by that. I apologize if it is common knowledge. Is this something the CSR had to initiate, or something one could do on his own?

I have an external hard drive with the 788 "reformat" problem. It was attached to my bedroom 622. It worked one night an didn't work the next day having been attached to the same DVR for weeks.

I've since started with a brand new drive as a test. I attached it to my living room 622 DVR and formatted it for the first time. That worked. So I brought it to the bedroom and connected it to the the bedroom 622. No problems. At this point there weren't any actual programs on the new hard drive.

I took it back to the living room and went through the painful process of transfering programs from the Hard Drive that had teh error, to my living room DVR, and then onto the new Hard Drive.

Then when I take the new hard drive back to my room to connect to the 622 I get the 788 error again saying it can only be configured for one DVR.

My Household Keys are different only in the last digit by 2 letters.

 

[like2watch]

I've been trying to digest this and the "moving" thread's messages, and want to pose a possible scenario for the problem; feel free to shoot it down as too simplistic or my assumptions wrong:

1. It appears that E* has recently exchanged the "3 strikes" protection for "household key" protection.

2. Although the hh keys feature may have been downloaded in the last update some time back, it sounds like keys were left at 000000 and not loaded with unique numbers until recently (within last 30 days?)

3. If memory serves, the people who got 866 messages (no others) are users of drives which, unless reconfigured, "sleep" and are off 99+ % of the time, such as the Free Agent.

So is it possible that if the external drive was not active when the new key numbers were sent that it would then not "have" or "get" the new key?

If that WERE the case, maybe a fix (IF E* can figure out how to to do it) would be to return those keys to 000000 and, if the drive again works, resend the new hh key while the drive is actually turning. Or some other variant of this?

Just punching around in the dark, I admit.

Hal

I suggested this to them but was told the following (I have a 500 MB FreeAgent which worked fine from 11/7/07 until about 4/8/08):

"We have not been informed that the limitation has been removed. They did talk about this issue on the last Tech Chat broadcast and stated they were looking into resolving the issue soon with a software upgrade. I’m sorry but I don’t have any information on what prevents the drive from being moved from receiver to receiver or the Household Key. I have a model 625 DVR and I did look the other night on my receiver and I had a listing for that. The 625 does not have the external hard drive feature.
This seems to be more of an issue with that brand of external hard drive which the engineering department is working to resolve. I appreciate your patience and hopefully we will have a resolution soon."

 

[murky]

I did a further test with a 3rd hard drive (new).

I allowed the bedroom 622 to format it. I tranferred one program to the hard drive.

I then moved the drive to the living room 622. I got the message that it can only be used with one DVR and would I like to reauthorize it. **this was not the reformatting message**

I accepted, then removed the drive and took it back to the bedroom 622.

There I got the must reformat message.

It appears I can take hard drives from the bedroom to the living room but not vice versa, even if it is originally mapped to the bedroom DVR. What gives!

 

[primetimeguy]

My latest email response from Dish on the 866 reformat issue (drive appears to lose the key)...


"Thank you for your email. Our engineering department is aware of your issue. You are not the only customer that is experiencing this same issue. Unfortunately there is not a way for me to set your account back to default to resolve this issue. I apologize for any inconvenience you have experienced."

I essentially acked if they could set the key back to zero or do something to allow me access to this one problem drive of mine.

 

[odbrv]

Please elaborate on the "rehit" and selecting "yes"? I don't know what you mean by that. I apologize if it is common knowledge. Is this something the CSR had to initiate, or something one could do on his own?

Rehit is a term to have a CSR reactivate your sytem. Yes is one of the 3 options of the 788 message. Once these were done both of my 622s had the same household key. Like yours they were different prior to the 2 activities. Up to now I have received no new 788 messages on either 622.

 

[AdamGott]

Please elaborate on the "rehit" and selecting "yes"? I don't know what you mean by that. I apologize if it is common knowledge. Is this something the CSR had to initiate, or something one could do on his own?

I have an external hard drive with the 788 "reformat" problem. It was attached to my bedroom 622. It worked one night an didn't work the next day having been attached to the same DVR for weeks.

I've since started with a brand new drive as a test. I attached it to my living room 622 DVR and formatted it for the first time. That worked. So I brought it to the bedroom and connected it to the the bedroom 622. No problems. At this point there weren't any actual programs on the new hard drive.

I took it back to the living room and went through the painful process of transfering programs from the Hard Drive that had teh error, to my living room DVR, and then onto the new Hard Drive.

Then when I take the new hard drive back to my room to connect to the 622 I get the 788 error again saying it can only be configured for one DVR.

My Household Keys are different only in the last digit by 2 letters.

This completely mimics my experience. I emptied a 320 gig hard drive and both recievers would let me transfer it (when empty) as many times as I wanted but as soon as I put one prgram on this drive from either receiver the 'bad' receiver won't let me access the drive without reformatting. So obviously we can't even move the drives three times now...

'Mike' from India, Dish's weekend tech 'support' guy, has determined that i have a bad USB port and was willing to send me a new 622 but I think that I will disagree with him for now and wait for a better solution. If I don't move the drive from the 'bad' receiver it works flawlessly but I now have three drives slaved to my 'good' receiver and none to the 'bad' one. I really don't want to start with a fourth external HD, especially not until they fix this problem.

Dish's tech 'support' staff is worse than pathetic. It's not their fault, obviously, as someone is just doing a really poor job of keeping them informed of things. Even the tier 2 techies have no information about this household code thing and they tell me that they would know because they get the memos from the programmers.. Yeah right.