Espn-hd, not the WOW factor!

[squicken]

Does anyone know what the Mets are using? 1080i 720p? I caught the highlights yesterday on HDNews and wasn't really impressed? Maybe it was because of the rain. Just curious because the only live sporting event I have ever seen in HD was this years Super Bowl, and 1080i didn't look to bad there. I still believe that if a committment is made to a quality 720p broadcast, it will look stunning. I think right now ESPN is half-as*ing HD (haven't seen baseball Sun yet), but will crank it up once the new facility is in place. Sunday morning countdown in HD, NICE.

 

[Sean Mota]

MSG and FoxSport in NY both use 1080i

 

[squicken]

It must have been the rain. Too bad the Mets don't have Vaughn anymore, he must really suck in HD

 

[FunkyBoss]

Please stop posting to these ESPN topics until ESPN comes to VoOm. It gets me too excited each time I log into the forum and see these topics updated! Just to be let down by no ESPN before the NFL draft.

 

[vurbano]

so why no wow factor? How do you half A$$ 720p if thats what espnhd is doing?

 

[squicken]

so why no wow factor? How do you half A$$ 720p if thats what espnhd is doing?

I was really speaking to the studio shows. I had ESPN-HD for about 2 weeks before switching to Voom, and never saw a HD sporting event. I have no problemwith 720p. In fact, I'm currently looking at the Sony GWIII LCD Rear Projection. My only concern is its something like ? X 738, not 720, so I'm worried about the slight scaling it has to do to show 720p.

 

[Sean Mota]

I was really speaking to the studio shows. I had ESPN-HD for about 2 weeks before switching to Voom, and never saw a HD sporting event. I have no problemwith 720p. In fact, I'm currently looking at the Sony GWIII LCD Rear Projection. My only concern is its something like ? X 738, not 720, so I'm worried about the slight scaling it has to do to show 720p.

I wouldn't worry too much about the Sony GWIII LCD scaler. I have a Sony GWII LCD rear projector that scales everything to 768p. That scaler is as good as you can get with a 720p. The only negative about the Sony LCD's is that for an HTPC it will not output a 1-1 mapping and you will find yourselve dealing with overscanning for your PC. If you are not planning to have an HTPC, I would not worry about it.

 

[squicken]

What do you mean by not outputting 1-1 mapping? I have no idea what that means. I wouldn't be using a PC. I'm a laptop guy, now and forever.

Edit: HDCP is the DVI copy protection, right? Is the HTPc same type of thing.

 

[vinnyv07]

I have read alot of quotes from abc and espn that since they deal with alot of sports that have high motion that 720p handles it better than 1080i. If you watched MLB and NHL hockey in the past on HDNET you will see that 1080i is far better than 720p. Not that 720p is bad....its just that when compared to 1080i....its second best.

 

[madpoet]

*sigh* No it's not.

-MP

 

[vurbano]

*sigh* Yes it is

-VU

 

[madpoet]

Honestly, I'd love for you guys to be able to see the test. Unbiased as it were. Take a 1080p source material and scale it down two ways, once to 1080i and once to 720p. Have a display device that can natively display both formats without any internal scaling. And watch. Do A/B comparisons. Then make up your mind.

Unfortunately, the budget for that kind of A/B test isn't cheap, so I understand why you unfortunate souls who believe 1080i is better are so misled .

-MP

 

[Sean Mota]

madpoet, I have seen the 720p/1080i argument and it is an endless discussion. Why is then that ESPN-HD cannot really give us the WOW factor? Is ESPN-HD equipment inferior or is it that E* or D* are not given enugh bandwith to the channel?

 

[vurbano]

I've been askin that question for a months. Id love to know the real reason.
Poet you act like we havent seen a 720p set before or havent seen MNF on a 720p set. There are many over at best buy, circuit city etc. I have a friend with a new 50 inch sammy DLP. Hes run component and DVI from multiple sources and admits the 1080i signal has more detail. Im sorry you cant see the difference I truly am. But lets move on.

Lets answer the real question, Why no wow on espnhd? what are they doing wrong?

 

[madpoet]

Vurbano, have you truly seen a 720p native set, or merely a set which upconverts 720p to 1080i? There are WORLDS of difference between the two, and very few sets that offer native 720p. That's the point I'm trying to get across. The vast majority of displays that people are using to judge 720p by can't DISPLAY 720p natively. It's an unfair comparison because of poor internal scalers. I've got a fairly expensive Hitachi RPTV, and the way it handles 720p as opposed to my native 720p LCD projector makes me shudder.

Now for the wow factor... here's my problem. Very few sporting events are done ENTIRELY in HD. All too often ESPN is cutting back and forth between SD and HD formats, especially for things like replays and alternate camera angles. It's hard to get immersed in the HD that is shown because of these constant breaks in quality. The Women's Finals was one of the best events they've had on ESPN that I've seen. Almost every angle was HD, and even when they cut to smaller screen formatting they had the sense to bar it rather than stretch it. I made the mistake of switching to ESPN HD last night on my cable box and had to cringe at how they were showing the hockey game.

So to sum it up, here are my suggestions for improving the wow factor:

1) Use all HD cameras, and not a bad mix of HD and stretched SD.
2) If you have to use SD shots, pillar it. Sports is terrible when it's stretched
3) More programming of course.

-MP

 

[andrzej]

vurbano,
could you agree that, all other things being equal; interlaced signal is inferior to progressive? I hope that you do, and that you understand that 1080p would be visibly superior to 1080i. Pristine 720p is not as good as pristine 1080p but I bet that many people would not see much (if any) difference on their displays with less than 1080 resolution. Why is ESPN PQ not impressive is another issue and I don't know the answer.

 

[rollerfink]

Some of ESPN's sunday night football games definitely had the wow factor. The college basketball games not so much. Although I did see one U of Illinois game that looked really good.

 

[squicken]

NHL honcho Gary Bettman(sp?) is betting HD will save hockey. I have seen CSTV college hockey on the inHD channel, and I think he may be onto something. For ESPN to butcher hockey is a crime, the sport was made for HD. But the game I saw was 1080i, and I sure didn't feel I was missing anything by not having a p.

 

[vurbano]

Poet #1 Yes I have. We also have tiolets and those sockets with lightening in them too. LMAO

#2 Lets not consider the sd stretch and sd cam bologna in the HD events. Those are just things that steer you away from the question. Lets Focus on the question. What the F$$$ is wrong with ESPNHD's picture quality! why no "wow" factor? 720p is "supposed" to be superior. HDnet blows it out of the water in Hockey. Worldsport does as well. CBS kills it. The only good picture ive ever seen on ESPNHD is sunday night football. WHAT IS ESPNHD DOING TO MESS UP THE REST?

 

[vurbano]

vurbano,
could you agree that, all other things being equal; interlaced signal is inferior to progressive? I hope that you do, and that you understand that 1080p would be visibly superior to 1080i. Pristine 720p is not as good as pristine 1080p but I bet that many people would not see much (if any) difference on their displays with less than 1080 resolution. Why is ESPN PQ not impressive is another issue and I don't know the answer.

Yes a progressive 720p signal is slightly better in fast motion. When the action is fast.i.e., Nascar, horse racing. But for still pictures, movies, football, hockey etc 1080i has the advantage. Go tell Mr Cuban he has an inferior picture LMAO. Yes 1080p would blow them both away.

But andrej, check the title of this thread "espnhd- not the wow factor!" what is the culprit? 720p? or espn? If its 720p then umm why? if its espnhd then what are they doing wrong?