EchoStar Files Suit Over FTA Boxes

[dzinkin]

This time, a commentary from a Multichannel News writer...

Getting a "Free" Bird

A few questions:

1. More than two million?

2. Since when was "Blackbird" an actual vendor?

3. How many of the listed vendors actually sell much in North America?

 

[Anole]

Imo

1). I don't believe that number, but remember those were all via hacked DirecTV cards, not FTA boxes.
- and there sure as heck weren't 2 million new customers as a result!
2). it was the name on the first widespread (hacked) FTA box that I ever heard about.
- probably an oem or clone of something already on the market at the time
3). they are the top 3 vendors, and the 1.3 million they have made, aren't all doing Dish.
- the 8 vendors listed are all available, and seem to have some level of support.

 

[oncewaslost]

2. Since when was "Blackbird" an actual vendor?

I don't know, but I had heard of script writer "Blacklist's" association with Pansat a few years back (it was only rumor from a disgruntled pansat employee then) . I was going to mention it the other day, but didn't for fear of a lynch mob.

 

[grusome]

I love my Coolsat 5000 , it is a great FTA receiver............

Don't know who their target consumer was when they designed it or what their intent was but it has to be one of the best planned out receivers.

If echostar can shutdown all the hacking sites and put a nail in the viewsat sonic view coffin , I wonder how many coverts we will have going from Hack to True FTA.

That itself would be phenomenal , TRUE FTA being watched by tens of thousands of ex-hackers.

I kind of doubt that there will be tens of thousands of ex-hacker converts to real FTA. More than likely, Dish, DTV & BEV will get a few new subs and that will be it.
Unfortunately, for a lot of people, real FTA does not offer interesting enough content to get them hooked. I wish that some company would come up with a programming model similar to those used in Europe. Plenty of in the clear, FTA stuff and some premium content that only needs a renewable smartcard from the provider. I think advertisers would go for it if presented right. OTA TV stations manage to do pretty well without any sort of encryption and depend on advertising revenue. What might prevent that is the fact that something like that (advertiser supported FTA channels) could, potentially take revenue away from local OTA stations. And in that case, there would be a LOT of protests on the part of the local OTA stations.
grusome

 

[RVD420]

I don't know, but I had heard of script writer "Blacklist's" association with Pansat a few years back (it was only rumor from a disgruntled pansat employee then) . I was going to mention it the other day, but didn't for fear of a lynch mob.

"Blacklist" is the code writer for hack software for Pansat FTA boxes.

Many changes in the firmware (i.e. clone detection) was implemented in Pansat hack files first , later to have the exact same clone protection (byte for byte) showup on legitimate software available for download from the Pansat homepage.

So to me it seems that either:

A: Pansat is behind "Blacklist"
or
B: Pansat had someone disassemble the hack software, and took the clone protection routines from the hack software, and used them in the legitimate software available for download from the Pansat homepage.


In the lawsuit there are John Does 1-10.

I could really see Pansat being added to the lawsuit as one of the John Does.

 

[myfaststang50]

I read a part tyhat said "illegal decription" and i ask... why illegal decryption? Is the encryption patented? If i fold a piece of paper so no one reads it and you come around unfold it and read it, is that illegal decryption?

 

[Mr Tony]

huh?

They are trying to override the encryption by loading illegal software into the box

 

[duchen]

to Myfastfang50

Illegal decryption occurs where someone sells or uses softwear to unscramble programming which a cable or satellite company encypts (scrambles) so it can charge authorized users money. The offense is stealing. Echostar's Complaint is linked to one of the emails in this thread and you may want to read the federal statutes which are violated by stealing programming.

Illegal decryption can occur whether or the patent for the encryption or decryption program is stolen. For example, if the softwear used to illegally decrypt the program is independently invented and does not use the patent holder's invention, it is not patent infringement. In fact, it would be theft even if the encryption program or decryption program is not patented.

Whether the encryption program or decryption program is patented has nothing to do with whether the decryption of the program by someone who does not pay for it is illegal. The reason for patenting the program is to prevent a competitor from using it. Thus, for example (and i do not know the players), there are probably different patentsfor Nagravision and PowerVu.

On the other hand, if a patented decryption program is stolen and used, then there could be a patent infringement claim.


The difference between your folded paper example above and the stealing of satellite signals is that (generally) no federal or state law prohibits anyone from picking up a folded pice of paper they see laying around. But, of course, if the paper is in mail addressed to somreone else and is opened without the permission of the addressee, that can be a crime.

Please note that, by referring to the lawsuit, I am not expressing an opinion on its merits or suggesting the allegations are true. I merely want to refer you to the statutes cited there.

Iceberg said it well. And much more succinctly.

 

[turbosat]

More insight on echostar

and their business tactics, see the article about TMG on SkyREPORT.com - Satellite Industry Daily News, Information, Data and Research for direct-to-home, DBS, C-Band, Local Channel, Broadband, High Speed Data, PVR and Interactive Television. today

 

[mastermesh]

If i fold a piece of paper so no one reads it and you come around unfold it and read it, is that illegal decryption?

Native American belief system indicates that no one really "owns" anything. If I join a tribe and claim to believe those beliefs and go to your house, break in, take all your stuff, and maybe your car too while I'm at it, would that really be illegal?

 

[stone phillips420]

If I join a tribe and claim to believe those beliefs and go to your house, break in, take all your stuff, and maybe your car too while I'm at it, would that really be illegal?

Yes, as I dont live on a native american reservation

 

[bidaw]

If I wanna watch the latest greatest movies, I go to Hispasat. A lot of their evening programming are releases either at or around dvd release time. Castro doesn't have to follow copyrights I guess. Just have to deal with the spanish subtitles. Man I love FTA! And to think...it was a blind man that got me into this hobby!

 

[RVD420]

Well add Pansat to the list of FTA makers being sued by EchoStar.

Echostar Satellite L.L.C. et al v. Panarex, Inc. et al - 2:2007cv05897 - Justia Federal District Court Filings and Dockets

 

[turbosat]

more on viewtech suit

If you'll read the article at skyreport.com today, there's an update regarding
the lawsuit, VS lawyers asked the court to dismiss.......SkyREPORT.com - Satellite Industry Daily News, Information, Data and Research for direct-to-home, DBS, C-Band, Local Channel, Broadband, High Speed Data, PVR and Interactive Television.

 

[kb7oeb]

I think advertisers would go for it if presented right. OTA TV stations manage to do pretty well without any sort of encryption and depend on advertising revenue. What might prevent that is the fact that something like that (advertiser supported FTA channels) could, potentially take revenue away from local OTA stations. And in that case, there would be a LOT of protests on the part of the local OTA stations.
grusome

I think some things working against it are why turn down subscriber money if you can get it and cable won't let you give away your signal. When ZDTV started they offered a 24/7 live stream of the channel that was discontinued for contractual reasons.

For a fee you can stream a live 24/7 feed of MSNBC on your PDA but that same company will not let you stream it to your computer at any price.

 

[Woofle]

Wrong solution

Excerpt:


Full article is here at SkyReport.

IMHO business interests have way too much power in this country vs. individuals. The "special interest" corporations run to Congress and get whatever copyright protections or restrictions on technology they like because they have the buck$ to buy whatever legislation they want.

Remember years ago, when cellphone companies (successfully) lobbied Congress to ban the sale or importation of scanners which could receive frequencies used by cellphone towers? News stories of how easily these "in the clear" analog signals could be intercepted were hurting their repuation. So the solution? Not invert or scramble the audio. But instead create the *illusion* of security to the customers by passing laws making the importation and sale or modification of scanner gear to listen to cellphone frequencies a serious crime.

So now, years later, when most cellphone coverage is digital and not decipherable with consumer radio gear, it's STILL illegal to listen to that "forbidden zone" of frequencies, even though it's likely that nothing would be heard.

Doesn't seem like America.

Now, imagine if the cellphone industry can ban radios from listening to signals "in the clear", how much easier it would be to ban FTA gear from receiving encrypted intellectual property? It's depressing.

The obvious solution (to me) is to modify their encryption. Maybe change keys every 4 hours or something, so that it becomes such an ENORMOUS pain to 99% of hackers, that they will tire of trying to keep up. That would actually *solve* their problem and not INFRINGE on our right to enjoy free-to-air programs like Russian TV or ethnic programming or affiliate TV, and infringe on the right of small TV and radio networks to distribute content.

Eh, sorry, I'm off the soapbox now.

 

[Woofle]

To clarify

I forgot to point out the obvious conclusion:

Unless there is some way to 100% GUARANTEE that an FTA box is 100% un-hackable, this may threaten our right to listen to any sort of free programming and completely eliminate free programming.

It threatens free programming (especially ethnic and foreign language programs for expats, but also programming which acts like "shortwave radio" to reach out to audiences in other countries -- like DW TV, which is facinating IMHO).

So sad. I hope these providers recognize that they stand more to gain by using technology to thwart casual hacking than to run to Congress and take away yet another individual freedom from us all. And if they do succeed in it, I hope EVERY FTA advocate with ANY DSS or pay service will switch back to cable TV to punish them for it, and make sure they know how we feel.

 

[Tron]

100 percent agreed to every point, Woofle.

Things will only get worse as our rights are up for sale to the highest bidder

 

[Woofle]

Lots of options that don't hurt FTA

"FTA viewing is not a crime"

Wanting to view unusual, offbeat programming and gain insight into other ways of thinking, or simply hearing programs from far away home, in a technical hobby where you learn about microwaves, satellites, and other technology, seems to be just the sort of thing we should be encouraging in this self-absorbed, appliance-oriented, plug-and-play, "I don't care how it works, just turn the key" culture. Is it any wonder we graduate so few qualified engineers born in the US and have to import much of our skilled engineering talent? We seem to be remarkably intellectually incurious for such a gadget-obsessed culture. I doubt one person in five has more than the foggiest idea how their radio works, let alone their TV, MP3 player, or personal computer.

Speaking of engineering talent, I suspect that if piracy is so widespread that it threatens Echostar's business, then the average pirate is just following a "cookbook" created by others to follow. If this is so, then it's less a question of securing the content against a determined and skilled pirate than it is to make the whole process more annoying than paying up the monthly subscription fee would be for most. Yes, determined hackers will still do it for the challenge, and high school kids on summer vacation will have the time, but your average working Joe will have a point of pain where "free" TV is so annoying to maintain that it just isn't worth the hassle anymore.

Contrast that with passing a law. Since when have scofflaws stopped breaking the law because of some theoretical chance of being caught?

But annoy them enough, and a good solid majority will probably find something else to occupy their time. Maybe try out the legitimately FTA programming and learn about the hobby and world instead of freeloading.