EchoStar Files Suit Over FTA Boxes
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Well, that's who -I- think of first, when I think of hacker bait. 
But, what are they gonna do about the other 25 companies?
But, what are they gonna do about the other 25 companies?
This is precisely why discussing anything remotely resembling hacking is harmful to FTA. Big money lawyers backed by greedy corporations will use this as an argument to sell our rights down the river.
It has been tried before. Hopefully, they'll fail again. Almost every FTA receiver on the market can be hacked. If they have their way, it will be illegal to own any device that could possibly be altered to do anything they don't want (and that covers a wide variety of gear)
EDIT: Microsoft.... err, I mean Nagravision, why not concentrate your efforts on securing your own system rather than attempting to control the products that people who live in a free country are allowed to buy?
EDIT #2: Upon reading the whole article, it seems they are accusing Viewtech themselves of loading hacked firmware onto their boxes! That puts the whole thing in a different perspective
It has been tried before. Hopefully, they'll fail again. Almost every FTA receiver on the market can be hacked. If they have their way, it will be illegal to own any device that could possibly be altered to do anything they don't want (and that covers a wide variety of gear)
EDIT: Microsoft.... err, I mean Nagravision, why not concentrate your efforts on securing your own system rather than attempting to control the products that people who live in a free country are allowed to buy?
EDIT #2: Upon reading the whole article, it seems they are accusing Viewtech themselves of loading hacked firmware onto their boxes! That puts the whole thing in a different perspective
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Maybe next MPAA and RIAA will join forces with them and start suing every vcr maker, every pvr maker, and everyone who owns a radio with a cassette recorder in it... if all these bigwigs had their way no one would be allowed to own a radio, tv, vcr, computer, fta box, or anything else unless they were paying a subscription for each and every one of those every time they are powered on.
They already tried that in the '80s (the infamous Betamax case), and lost. If you ever find a really old VCR from that period, check the back for a sticker that warns of serious consequences (heavy fines and imprisonment) for doing what is taken for granted today--recording television programs.
If I understand it correctly the dumbass ( pardon my french) was selling the receivers with the aftermarket software ALREADY LOADED? What IS he a freakin MORON? You know, its already very illegal. I am no criminal, but if I was going to be I damn sure wouldn't ADVERTISE the fact that what I sold could possibly be used illegally. I liken this to the guy that drives drunk and then the next morning calls the police and tells them he drove drunk, would they please come get him?
Better get what ya need fellas, its about to get worse on us true Digital Ku guys, I'm afraid.
Better get what ya need fellas, its about to get worse on us true Digital Ku guys, I'm afraid.
If this stops the hack market I can see this is as good and bad. Without the money coming in, I don't see manufacturers wanting to invest much in newer technology or providing a better product. Of course, some manufacturers don't seem to care much about making a quality product anyway. Look at all of the new products in just the last year. Some HD, some PVR, some crap, and also some pretty good accessories like motors, lnbf's, etc.
On the plus side, maybe this could help weed out all of the crap manufacturers and get us back on track with quality products.
On the plus side, maybe this could help weed out all of the crap manufacturers and get us back on track with quality products.
The upside is that this will hopefully curb the sale of devices destined for the black market. The downside, though, is that this will publicize the FTA hacker plight and possibly help the black market guys gain some customers (and hurt the credibility of legit FTA'ers).
I'm all for supporting action against illegal decryption, as long as it doesn't turn into a "sweeping lawsuit" that ends up hurting innocent consumers by drawing them into legal battles due to where they bought equipment, what sites the frequent for technical advice, or what type of equipment they own. Better Yet, though - maybe they should look at securing their signal and avoiding this issue all together! I'm ALL for that scenario.
I'm all for supporting action against illegal decryption, as long as it doesn't turn into a "sweeping lawsuit" that ends up hurting innocent consumers by drawing them into legal battles due to where they bought equipment, what sites the frequent for technical advice, or what type of equipment they own. Better Yet, though - maybe they should look at securing their signal and avoiding this issue all together! I'm ALL for that scenario.
It says they want a jury trial!
In the past when I have been on jury duty, they always selected juriors who knew nothing about the subject. The dumber, the better seems to be the thinking of the lawyers.
So this would be interesting - discussing such a highly technical subject with a group of the dumbest people they can find...
In the past when I have been on jury duty, they always selected juriors who knew nothing about the subject. The dumber, the better seems to be the thinking of the lawyers.
So this would be interesting - discussing such a highly technical subject with a group of the dumbest people they can find...
Of course they want people oblivious to the matter at hand. That way they can manipulate the thinking of the Jury. If the attorney continually presents information in a way that suggests that all FTA equipment is pirate equipment, the jury will start to think that way too. goodness forbid the possibility that their jury would be made up of people who are well versed in the FTA field and recognize legitimate use for the equipment, as well as legitimate purposes for using 3rd party software on a poorly supported device! (although a FTA savy jury could likely be harder on obvious pirates due to the amount of troubles they cause the legit FTA market)
Reading through that PDF, I'm definitely not liking what I see... it's more or less saying that anyone with a viewsat is a pirate because the viewsat makers purposefully put the ability in the receiver to hack... if they win this, they could potentially go after any viewsat owners even if they are legally using the boxes... and even worse, it'd give them the right to start suits on other FTA box makers since hackers typically load up software on almost all types of boxes and some idiot hacker releasing those hacks usually make claims that the hacks are direct from the company making the boxes, even if they aren't... they mentioned several different user names in that pdf... wonder if any of those guys are users on this forum?
It does mention internet forums... luckily, I don't think it'll affect this one, but I suspect it might a lot of others...
It does mention internet forums... luckily, I don't think it'll affect this one, but I suspect it might a lot of others...
Dish reads this board non stop, and they are more then welcome to. We are open and have nothing to hide.
We don't like pirarcy and which is why we have such a strict no hack talk rule.
Personally I read over the lawsuit, and it taught a lot more about hacking then I ever wanted to know. And they made is sound so easy to do as well.
The TRUE FTA Hobby is a great one, I am proud that I have a 4 foot motorized Dish and can swing and hit everything on the horizon. There is so much up there to watch, from great old time TV from the RTN channels on G10R, to MLB Baseball (some even in HD!) and special events such as the recent Live Earth concert which many FTA fans say commercial and interuption free (plus in HD and Stereo too!)
In reading through the PDF, I would say that I hope Dish has more evidence against them then what they posted that truely links them to this. (Although I dont have any doubts as there are a few FTA companies that are out there just seeming to push the hack market) But what Dish has posted in their lawsuit is like someone getting cancer and then trying to sue the Bic Lighter company for damages.
This is a hard thing for me, because TRUE FTA is not evil or illegal, and I don't want Dish to push to make FTA illegal. I would fight them on that. However by the same tolken something does need to be done to take care of the hacking. (Although my first though here is for DISH to fix their problem! Because at the moment Dish has the vaults wide open and they only have one guard at the wide open door, hes on lunch break and left a sign on his seat saying... Please dont take anything, I am away on vacation and will be back soon."
We don't like pirarcy and which is why we have such a strict no hack talk rule.
Personally I read over the lawsuit, and it taught a lot more about hacking then I ever wanted to know. And they made is sound so easy to do as well.
The TRUE FTA Hobby is a great one, I am proud that I have a 4 foot motorized Dish and can swing and hit everything on the horizon. There is so much up there to watch, from great old time TV from the RTN channels on G10R, to MLB Baseball (some even in HD!) and special events such as the recent Live Earth concert which many FTA fans say commercial and interuption free (plus in HD and Stereo too!)
In reading through the PDF, I would say that I hope Dish has more evidence against them then what they posted that truely links them to this. (Although I dont have any doubts as there are a few FTA companies that are out there just seeming to push the hack market) But what Dish has posted in their lawsuit is like someone getting cancer and then trying to sue the Bic Lighter company for damages.
This is a hard thing for me, because TRUE FTA is not evil or illegal, and I don't want Dish to push to make FTA illegal. I would fight them on that. However by the same tolken something does need to be done to take care of the hacking. (Although my first though here is for DISH to fix their problem! Because at the moment Dish has the vaults wide open and they only have one guard at the wide open door, hes on lunch break and left a sign on his seat saying... Please dont take anything, I am away on vacation and will be back soon."
i agree dish and nagra created the problem let them solve it, instead dish crys foul to everyone
dump nagra and find a company that can make a SECURE access card or do it yourself ala dtv
This could lead to all new future FTA receivers requiring to have a device in it to check to see what software is installed and once it picked up reception from the satellite it can be reset back to factory defaults if they pickup unauthorized signals or not. That would allow Dish Network, ExpressVu, etc. to hit the boxes like they do their own.
Of course if they did that someone would write software to defeat that software.
Its a continuing cat and mouse game.
Anyone like Tom and Jerry?
Its a continuing cat and mouse game.
Anyone like Tom and Jerry?
I have to say, this is a tough issue. I 100% support no illegal signal reception. But I also 100% support the right of consumers to run the software they want to, on the hardware they bought.
Maybe this could be a good analogy: Just because some people use their desktop computers to run hacked copies of software, doesn't mean Microsoft should be given the right to pre-approve and/or ban every single piece of software on the market.
I personally would like to see a requirement for all FTA receiver software to be GPL. Not GPL3, just GPL2. If that were the case, then anyone could review all the different software out there on the market that might run on a particular FTA receiver, to ensure it is only assisting in legal reception, not enabling illegal usage.
Please, don't let The Corruptibles - EFF: The Corruptibles - take over our PCs, satellite receivers, etc. I am an EFF member and would encourage others to join, and help make sure that we don't lose rights in the digital age.
Maybe this could be a good analogy: Just because some people use their desktop computers to run hacked copies of software, doesn't mean Microsoft should be given the right to pre-approve and/or ban every single piece of software on the market.
I personally would like to see a requirement for all FTA receiver software to be GPL. Not GPL3, just GPL2. If that were the case, then anyone could review all the different software out there on the market that might run on a particular FTA receiver, to ensure it is only assisting in legal reception, not enabling illegal usage.
Please, don't let The Corruptibles - EFF: The Corruptibles - take over our PCs, satellite receivers, etc. I am an EFF member and would encourage others to join, and help make sure that we don't lose rights in the digital age.
I agree that Dish should solve their in-house problem. Globecast uses nagravision and as far as I know it is not hacked. The people on Amazonas use nagravision and as far as I know it's not hacked.
I am an FTA user and I hate to know someone have to dictate what receiver I can buy. FTA is a hobby and will always be but I hope that dish will fix their in-house problem, just don't walk away from that and trying to bet some big bucks from ligit FTA manufacturer. I never use Viewsat I love my Pansat after migrating from my old Manhattan Skyline 1000.
I agree with Scott comment and he is right. Dish Nagravision system is easily hackable by people that have the know how and that is what Dish have to figure out ... their technology.
Microsoft software was hackable but I have seen the effort they put into their technology to break it and I belive Dish can. DTV did why can't they?
I am an FTA user and I hate to know someone have to dictate what receiver I can buy. FTA is a hobby and will always be but I hope that dish will fix their in-house problem, just don't walk away from that and trying to bet some big bucks from ligit FTA manufacturer. I never use Viewsat I love my Pansat after migrating from my old Manhattan Skyline 1000.
I agree with Scott comment and he is right. Dish Nagravision system is easily hackable by people that have the know how and that is what Dish have to figure out ... their technology.
Microsoft software was hackable but I have seen the effort they put into their technology to break it and I belive Dish can. DTV did why can't they?
I saw this disclaimer on Viewsat site:
IMPORTANT > We do not provide or condone the use of third party software. Using third party software maybe illegal and void product warrantee. Do not email or call asking about Dishnet, DirecTV, etc. Our satellite receivers are designed and intended for 100% legal use only. We will refuse sale to anyone whom we believe intends to use our product illegally or sell our products for illegal use.
IMPORTANT > We do not provide or condone the use of third party software. Using third party software maybe illegal and void product warrantee. Do not email or call asking about Dishnet, DirecTV, etc. Our satellite receivers are designed and intended for 100% legal use only. We will refuse sale to anyone whom we believe intends to use our product illegally or sell our products for illegal use.
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