Dual Hopper Intergration (From Team Summit)

Doesn't the dual node do up to 6 tuners now? I thought it was needed if you had two hoppers on your account? IF so it would mean tweaking the node to work with one hopper with 6 tuners rather than two hoppers with 3 tuners each. Still comes out to 6 tuners, but my way it would all be one hopper rather than two. THe MEGA HOPPER.

They can only send 3 tuners down one RG6 cable using their current technology. The Mega 6 tuner hopper would require 2 cables. Not a huge deal for many, but for some 2 cables may not be possible to run to the receiver. Of course given hopper technology it is possible to locate the hopper in a more convenient location for cabling and use a joey on the main TV, but lose PiP.
 
Cubwin, do you have a Hopper? Take a look at the Primetime Anytime Listings and you will see how it can be overwhelming. :)
Give us a choice of sortable text lists, and it becomes less overwhelming. ;)

Why not make both a three and six tuner hopper?

I know a six tuner hopper will cost more to manufacturer, but the quantity of six tuner hoppers manufactured will be a lot less then three tuner hoppers.
You just answered your own question. When mass-producing a product or different model, you have to have enough quantity produced that will reduce the per-unit cost (since there is fixed overhead costs that need to be spread out to each unit...so the fewer units produced, the higher per-unit cost). They determined that it was more cost effective to produce more 3-tuner models and piggyback the extra ones for the minority of customers that needed more. Think uniformity and scalability.

You don't get it. 2 Hoppers are designed to give you 6 satellite tuners and 2 OTA tuners with the SAME hardware that they use for those that don't need all that. Just because they didn't wait to release the boxes until EVERYTHING was ready, doesn't mean they didn't release a d*** fine system to start with. Dish's motivation and design theory are clearly different than yours, but it works just as well, AND I'll bet, in the long run, it will be better for Dish and their customers.
It will, IF and when seamless integration is realized.

Here are the must-haves I see that would define seamless:
1. DVR space and tuner load balancing
2. A single tuner list (including OTA).
3. A single DVR recording list.
4. A single timer list.

These are nice-to-haves:
1. EHD accessibility.
2. Sling accessibility.
3. DLNA accessibility.
 
I thought that the integration would not be as we hoped it would be. You know, full menu with all shows from both hoppers on them, all tuners available to be accessed, etc. I had heard that we would only be able to select which hopper we could watch at a time.
 
I thought that the integration would not be as we hoped it would be. You know, full menu with all shows from both hoppers on them, all tuners available to be accessed, etc. I had heard that we would only be able to select which hopper we could watch at a time.
Looking at the discussion in the topic, some people were ok with just having the DVR content shared between hoppers.

You are correct though, it's not going to be "seamless" with the initial update. It could potentially get better in the future, but no guarantees.
 
Ya bug fixes first!

Such as recordings getting corrupted after being restored from external hard drives and 'deleted' or watched DVR events still appearing and requiring 2nd or 3rd deletion attempt.
 
I expected two hopper integration to be fairly simple and work like this:

One is the master and one is the slave.

All joeys connect to the master hopper (that's up to six Joeys plus lets call the slave Hopper three more data channels, all told that's a max of nine HD data streams which is well within the specs for MoCA so there shouldn't be any networking issues).

From the users perspective there is only one Hopper with a unified DVR listing, schedule and tuner list. You see everything as though it were one 6-tuner, unified-database system.

The master hopper would set aside 1TB of space for all the things a single hopper system would store. Likewise, one of its three tuners will be used for recording the big-4's primetime content. This leaves 1 TB on the master and 2TB of space on the slave for user selected recordings.

In the crudest implementation: When only one event is scheduled to record it will record to the slave. When two events are called for, they will both go to the slave as it has 2TB of storage and three unused tuners compared to the master which has only 1TB and two tuners (one is assumed lost to the big-4's primetime recording). A third event will go to the master. A fourth to the slave and a fifth to the master. Should a sixth be available, obviously it would fall to the master. To summarize:
0 (aka big-4) master
1) slave
2) slave
3) master
4) slave
5) master
6*) master
A more advanced system would dynamically assign tuners based on available storage and even shift files between master and slave when needed.

The master's archive would be constructed of actual files on it's 1TB partition and psuedo-files consisting merely of pointers referencing the remaining files actually residing on the slave (this system works well with external hard drives added to both hoppers). If a file is called it will stream from whichever device holds it directly to the user's box but the directory will always reside on the master and all queries will be handled by the master. Essentially the second hopper is treated as a remote hard drive and if it crashes or is otherwise unavailable there are established protocols to deal with that, the most basic of which say you just pretend like it's still operating and generate error messages for the user if you try to access the inaccessible data. From the master's perspective the files still exist as pointers whether or not the pointed-to-data is available. When the slave comes back online, it should be trivial to sync the data, requiring only a few hundred KB of headers/pointers to be sent updating the master's database.

So, under this crude approach the user sees a single DVR archive with a unified schedule offering 5-6 tuners the use of which is auto-assigned. The principle bottleneck would be the 2TB storage capacity of the slave. A more advanced system would dynamically load-balance the tuners to efficiently use the full 3TB, even going so far as to transfer files between the devices when necessary (hence, the three extra data-channels mentioned above). Obviously plugging in external hard drives changes the calculus a bit but need not change the basic or advanced implementation of the system. If you added 1TB hard drives to each hopper, the basic case stays the same except with 3TB on the slave and 2TB on the master with the slave tending to fill up first. The advanced solution makes full use of the sum of both hoppers' capacity, regardless of how far it is expanded.

Such an implementation is on the level of a class project. It expands the system from essentially two free tuners to five and 1TB of space to 2TB plus an unoptimized extra TB. It also offers two OTA tuners rather than one, great for those that want the CW and PBS in HD. Crucial to this system is the idea of integrating the scheduling and database as well as automatically managing the distribution of tuners. So too is the non-duplication of the reserved partition.

Unfortunately it sounds like Dish is not presently implementing any of this. I can understand why they would not want to try jumping straight to a dynamically managed database but building a crude master-slave system with a base 2TB+ capacity and dynamically assigned tuners and unified database/scheduler is not too much to expect.
 
Couldn't have said that better myself. This is exactly what I'm hoping for as well. Small steps toward that are nice, but this is what I'd have in mind for "seamless integration." Will be interesting to see if 1.) this is what Dish has in mind as well and 2.) if they can actually pull it off.
 
There will never be 2TB available on the "slave" - too many issues if the primary goes down.

The most I really expect (not necessarily all I want) is:
Consolidated DVR view across units.
Select tuners from a consolidated Viewing Status screen.
Designate the PTA unit.
Designate which unit to record to when setting a timer.
MAYBE timer overflow between units.
 

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