Dual C-band Feedhorns...

[stogie5150]

Linuxman and me have been swapping phonecalls lately, mostly me asking him aiming questions, but I am getting more interested in wringing every bit of signal from my Paraclipse, and he (and me) thinks that a dedicated C-Band feed will do better than the voltage controlled setup I use now.

I see feedhorns such as this one:

Welcome To Chaparral Communications

And wonder: why couldn't that be used instead of what we use now, just use two lnb's and combine the H/V with a multiswitch?

How good of LNB's would one need to have to be better than what we use now? Will something like the BSC-211 C-band LNB be better than what we have now? I know the 275.00 Norsat LNB's will be better, but in the 10-50.00 each range, what LNB's work well for DVB? I don't do 4DTV so I don't need specialization for that, I just want suggestions for good performance/dollar ratio LNB's.

I have one Norsat 8915, its one of the lower line LNB's from them, should I try to find another and use that?

All you experienced guys, speak up!:up

 

[1captain]

Stogie: I run both types of feeds here lnb-f (BSC-621 & Cal-Amp dual C-band lnb-f) an also run a Ortho dual C & Ku -band. an I do got to say that you will get petter performance out of any dual feed set up, providing that you have a better grade of lnbs, an that is what is nice about using a dual lnb set either C or Ku combined you can always up grade the lnb's now or latter after the dish is set up for them, not like changing out a lnb-f where you have to reset up the FD & FL. but 1 thing is that you're lnb's need to be the same type an model to work an switch well, they will work miss matched also. will give you what I ran into last year, had a lighting hit near here an lost my vertical C-band Cal-Amp (had a match set of 17degrees with Serial nombers running also) lnb so I replaced 1 with a cheep Eagle Aspen lnb that is what iI had here at that time, an it worked but some time it would not switch ( using a DTV power 4 X 8 switch), an had to go back to a horz then to a vertical to get it to come in, signal was lower, an on week signals would pixel alot. also a dual feed is so easy to set up after you're dish is up an running, put a angle finder on you elevation bar on you're dish, read it an set it on the Horz lnb flange an set it to the same angle, then lock it down with the right FD for you're dish.

I like Dual lnb set ups, but their is a down side mainley the price, an you have to use another switch wich adds antuation into the mix, an realy need a power inserter for the vertical lnb, an also extra wireing for you dual lnb's but is is worth it in my book for the end result, because here with that 10-footer I can lock an play signals that most people have a problem playing.

Now on the Ortho feed what I am using here now is Norsat 8515 match set, (which are not bad in price) an a pair of Galant .5 commercal Ku lnbs, now the Galants are pricey but have them on hand so I used them.

Hope all info helps Stogie, if price is not a problem for you then I would do it.
Good Luck

 

[truckracer]

I am running an Ortho feed (dual C and dual KU) on a 10' mesh SAMI.

I am using Norsat KU lnb's and BSC-211 C-band lnbs. I am running two seperate passive multiswitches 4x2. One switch is for KU and the other is for C band. The reason I do that is because I have a 4dtv receiver that can't send 22k or diseqc. I run two coaxes from the 4dtv to the dish's multiswitches.

My pansat 9200 HD runs one coax with a diseqc switch near the mutli-switches.

My Vertical lnbs are only getting 13v instead of the recommended 18V dc.
I have not had any noticeable problems even locking 7/8 FEC signals. I have a lot of TI (terrestrial interference) around here on C-band and it knocks out my amc-3 - G3 C-band reception from time to time.

I have thought about using power inserters on the vertical side but I figured as well as it is working I would leave it along and not add anymore connections.

from what I have seen , some lnbs will operate fine out of spec and some will not.

I had a bsc-621 and got terrible KU reception with it. C-band was fine but I could not find the compromise that I could live with to get both bands. If c-band was at its max, I had no KU and vise versa.

On the 621 I also noticed there is a lot of cross pol interference with that lnbf.
A standard Corotor, dual c-band feed, or Ortho will always be best.

 

[stogie5150]

I already use a multiswitch to distribute my cband so that would not be a change. I wonder whether or not a powered multiswitch would help, also.

I found the dual Chaparral for 65.00 shipped, and I can pick up a couple BSC-211's on ebay probably 20.00 each shipped. Add a couple multiswitches (I have blown three in the last year), hey, gotta have spares...LOL, and I would be in business.

I just might do this.

 

[Anole]

Stogie -

A while back when Linuxman (and TruckRacer) were having OrthoMode-fever, I did some research.
Think $65 was the going price for just C-band only, and I was impressed how reasonable that was for 2-way, compared to $265..$400+ for 4-way, with Ku, too. -

If someone were building a dedicated system, they knew wouldn't grow in the future, I'd plop in a powered 4x4 or 4x8.
You could always run the C-band to a 4D off the non-22khz side, assuming there's never gonna be any more 4D on Ku.
But, two 2x4's give a lot more flexibility, and makes it future-proof, as much as I'd rather go with a 4x-something...

I'm just generally more impressed with powered switches.
Careful shopping will turn 'em up.
Recently, I found that Sadoun was selling some nice ones (maybe two at a time?) on eBay for prices you could live with! - :up

Or, see if Linuxman can get any more of the switches he modified.
If you recall a few months ago , he rigged some nice 2x4's (?) for 18v out to both Vert and Horiz LNBs!
That's just the best of both worlds! You'll never wonder if low voltage is biting you in the butt.
And it cuts down on cables, connectors, clutter, and potential signal loss with stupid power inserters.
(can you tell I have strong opinions?) -

As a last suggestion, maybe run your powered switches from a power strip that's easy to get to.
And get some grounding blocks on those incoming coaxes!

Sounds like you're on final approach, buddy.
Now, just get a decent receiver to do the tuning, and you'll be on top of the world! -
Read carefully what Iceberg and Linuxman use, or call them,,,, or buy them a beer/pizza... and get yer head out! -

 

[Mr Tony]

My Vertical lnbs are only getting 13v instead of the recommended 18V dc.

truck
Vertical is at 13volts...Horizontal is at 18 volts

 

[stogie5150]

Stogie -

A while back when Linuxman (and TruckRacer) were having OrthoMode-fever, I did some research.
Think $65 was the going price for just C-band only, and I was impressed how reasonable that was for 2-way, compared to $265..$400+ for 4-way, with Ku, too. -

If someone were building a dedicated system, they knew wouldn't grow in the future, I'd plop in a powered 4x4 or 4x8.
You could always run the C-band to a 4D off the non-22khz side, assuming there's never gonna be any more 4D on Ku.
But, two 2x4's give a lot more flexibility, and makes it future-proof, as much as I'd rather go with a 4x-something...

I'm just generally more impressed with powered switches.
Careful shopping will turn 'em up.
Recently, I found that Sadoun was selling some nice ones (maybe two at a time?) on eBay for prices you could live with! - :up

Or, see if Linuxman can get any more of the switches he modified.
If you recall a few months ago , he rigged some nice 2x4's (?) for 18v out to both Vert and Horiz LNBs!
That's just the best of both worlds! You'll never wonder if low voltage is biting you in the butt.
And it cuts down on cables, connectors, clutter, and potential signal loss with stupid power inserters.
(can you tell I have strong opinions?) -

As a last suggestion, maybe run your powered switches from a power strip that's easy to get to.
And get some grounding blocks on those incoming coaxes!

Sounds like you're on final approach, buddy.
Now, just get a decent receiver to do the tuning, and you'll be on top of the world! -
Read carefully what Iceberg and Linuxman use, or call them,,,, or buy them a beer/pizza... and get yer head out! -

I have no interest in Ku, just C.

A powered multiswitch will require me to do some wiring in the attic, because my only outlet is about 30 feet from my current Multiswitch site.

Grounding.....I have heard so many conflicting opinions...I asked some electrician friends of mine, and I got as many different opinions as people I asked. Most agree its a good idea, but in practice a direct strike is gonna fry everything, no matter what you do. My problem is that my c-band dish is about 50 feet from the house ground, and my Ku dishes about 60 and 80, respectively. Electricians say at that distance, the wire is likely to burn in two before it helps. Most of them told me to drive a rod in the ground at each dish, and ground just there. But code and everywhere I see on dish sites says it HAS to be bonded to the house ground, and within a reasonable distance. So I dunno what to do.

As an intersting aside, the Paraclipse I just took down was grounded by driving a 3' pipe in the ground, grounded there, then attached about 100' from dish to house ground by regular 12/2 romex with all the wires twisted toegther, direct buried in the ground.

All the electricans DID agree that any ground is better than none.

 

[linuxman]

Hey Stogie,

Why didn't you tell me you were looking for Dual C-Band feed-horns.

I've got two Dual MA/COMs setting here doing nothing but looking at me.

MA/COM was a commercial equipment manufacturer back in the day.

 

[stogie5150]

Hey Stogie,

Why didn't you tell me you were looking for Dual C-Band feed-horns.

I've got two Dual MA/COMs setting here doing nothing but looking at me.

MA/COM was a commercial equipment manufacturer back in the day.

Well, YOU told me old fashioned LNB's would be better. I was following YOUR guidance.

So, as Monty Hall once said,

LETS MAKE A DEAL!

 

[gabshere]

i also have a dual

one question though ....... since the lnbs are mounted one for H and the other for V and they are physically turned from each other does it really matter if its getting 13 volts or 18 volts
they can't switch polarities . just as long as they have power they should work right , no mater if its 13 , 15 or even 18 volts ( and this does fall under the limitations of the manufacturer cause i seen one listed at 15v-20v and others from 10v-24 v)

just wondering and i didn't know if it would fall under this limitation using a multiswitch ( with two or more receivers)

 

[Stefan]

i also have a dual

one question though ....... since the lnbs are mounted one for H and the other for V and they are physically turned from each other does it really matter if its getting 13 volts or 18 volts
they can't switch polarities . just as long as they have power they should work right , no mater if its 13 , 15 or even 18 volts ( and this does fall under the limitations of the manufacturer cause i seen one listed at 15v-20v and others from 10v-24 v)

just wondering and i didn't know if it would fall under this limitation using a multiswitch ( with two or more receivers)

Well, that's the issue here. These type of LNBs usually aren't meant to and aren't designed to operate at voltages this low. Some of them will work at only 13v even though they aren't meant to and may be running out of spec. Usually this means their gain will be reduced but this may not be an issue unless you have a long cable run. However some LNBs will completely fail to operate at 13v or will operate but won't function properly. Bottom line is you'll just have to try them to see, and if they don't you'll need to use power inserters on the vertical LNBs between them and the input on the multiswitch to provide a proper voltage. In my experience usually most regular LNBs will work at the reduced voltage but at a reduced gain, but PLL LNBs usually will not work at all without proper voltage. Anyway, the way to solve the problem is to use power inserters.

 

[gabshere]

great explanation Stefan

now i see why linuxman built/converted the power insert for his system , guess i should have taken more time and went back and re read his thread on the subject ...

but it does make me wonder a bit one of my receiver has the ability to adjust the voltage slightly ( just don't know if it will be enough) i think one is for 13/18 and another for 14/19 its probably my coolsat 8000 cause i have the coolsat 5000, 6000 & 8000

 

[ACRadio]

Folks, a dual commercial power inserter is so cheap and available, with negligible loss. I just added another as I was powering my horizontal LNB's from the receiver, and someone reminded me that while I'm using the vertical LNB's, the horizontal LNB's are only receiving 13 volts. Putting them in an undervoltage condition could possibly cause premature failure due to a higher current draw along with the added heat. This was done in anticipation of swapping my Cal Amp's for a couple of Norsat 8115's.

 

[truckracer]

Here is a cheap ortho feedhorn if it is not a misprint

C-BAND Satellite Feedhorns FREE GROUND SHIPPING LOWER 48 STATES

 

[stogie5150]

Here is a cheap ortho feedhorn if it is not a misprint

C-BAND Satellite Feedhorns FREE GROUND SHIPPING LOWER 48 STATES

I found an Astrotel for 44.99 plus shipping, and a chaparral for 67.50 shipped. I didn't see a dual on that page, they were all C/Ku. I want c-band only.

 

[stogie5150]

I ordered the Chaparral, two bsc211's, and a five pack of 3X4 multiswitches.

Now we wait.

 

[Anole]

Congrats, Stogie -

I'm sure that'll give you some solid signals, especially on The Beast of a dish ya got!
You and Gabsphere, Linuxman, Truckracer, and anyone else can have a shoot-out on signal levels. - :up


btw, didn't see email, but will look again after I get back from lunch (I go late) .

 

[linuxman]

Folks, a dual commercial power inserter is so cheap and available, with negligible loss. I just added another as I was powering my horizontal LNB's from the receiver, and someone reminded me that while I'm using the vertical LNB's, the horizontal LNB's are only receiving 13 volts. Putting them in an undervoltage condition could possibly cause premature failure due to a higher current draw along with the added heat. This was done in anticipation of swapping my Cal Amp's for a couple of Norsat 8115's.

Hey ACRadio,

Where's that link to the commercial power inserters. I know you posted one here before, but I can't find it.

Please post it again.

I managed to fry one of my converted 3x4 multi-switches today along with another diseqc switch today.

Like George said in his thread, some days you are better off just staying in bed.

 

[stogie5150]

I managed to fry one of my converted 3x4 multi-switches today along with another diseqc switch today.

Ah HA!

So its NOT just me!

Good luck on getting it straightened out.

 

[truckracer]

Hey Iceberg,
what I meant was my lnb on my ortho is only getting 13v on vertical side but it is a standard lnb for a feedhorn and is suppossed to always have 18v-20v dc.
It is operating out of spec but doing good.

Of course on an lnbf , V is always 13v as H is always 18V.

One of the guys on here had a norsat that wouldn't work at 13v and he had to use a power inserter I think.

Volts may be dipping lower than 13V under load since the power has to go through a diseqc switch (pansat) then through a multi-switch, 200 ft of RG-6. I have never measured it after the multiswitch under load. My switched are not powered.