DTV-Appeal for Distant Networks

[DaveO]

I've been dealing with DTV customer service since early December 2007, appealing the denial of distant networks.
At my location, with 30' of mast, digital rotor, biggest Channel Master antenna, I am unable to get local networks (analog or digital). So, I initiated an appeal in accordance with federal regulations through DTV.

Today I received (what they think is) their final answer to me:

Dear Mr. xxxxx,

Thank you for writing about the Distant Network Services. I am sorry that you have not heard about the waivers yet and I will be glad to assist you with this today.

The waiver request was denied for NBC, CBS, FOX. Please keep in mind that federal law -- not DIRECTV -- sets strict guidelines for receiving these national networks.

We do not know why the networks denied the waivers, it could be because you can pull up locals off the off air antenna's. I am sorry that they were not accepted.

Thanks for writing.

Sincerely,


Vicki T
402584
DIRECTV Customer Service

*****************************

She said she was going to assist me? Did I miss where?
If she had read the earlier posts to them she would have seen that I cannot "pull up locals off the off air antenna's".
Man it's tough dealing with some customer reps.

So, can someone tell me if I'm correct or not here? I understand that they now have to send a technician to test at my location for signals. If they find none available (which they will) then I should get the networks. If they get a signal then I pay. Do I have that correct? I have no problems putting it to the test.

W. Mass location, and the zip doesn't matter. I have ridges on both East, North, and West of me that stop signals, not to mention that I'm in the middle of the forest, 1 1/2 mile from a paved road.

 

[iwc5893]

It is not DirecTV that denies your waiver request, but the local stations.

I'm not sure who would send the technician, because as a DTV Tech we didn't have anything that was capable of checking OTA signal strength.

 

[Jimbo]

Dave O,
What iwc said is correct, D* has nothing to do with weather or not you are available for Out of Market locals., that design is strictly from the Network(s) it's self.

IWC,
The network would be responsible to get a company to do the survey.

I think Dave O has a valid case, and he's not alone.

The networks are the ones Dave O needs to be hounding to wake up and smell the coffee.

Jimbo

 

[DaveO]

IWC,
The network would be responsible to get a company to do the survey.

I think Dave O has a valid case, and he's not alone.

The networks are the ones Dave O needs to be hounding to wake up and smell the coffee.

Jimbo

Googling around I found this regarding the SHVA law:
(From the ARRL web site):

Will ARRL set up testing opportunities at a subscriber's residence? No. The SHVIA provides that satellite television subscribers who are denied retransmission of distant signals may request that the satellite carrier seek a waiver of the denial from the network station that is asserting that retransmission is prohibited. If the network station rejects the waiver request, the subscriber may submit to the carrier a request for a test verifying the subscriber's inability to receive a signal that meets the signal intensity standard. The satellite carrier and the network station or stations will then select a qualified and independent person to conduct a test in accordance with the FCC rules. The test must be conducted within 30 days after the subscriber requests the test. ARRL is not involved in making arrangements for the test, and subscribers should not contact ARRL for such requests. Such requests should be made to the satellite television service provider.

*****************************

I have made the request to D* for testing. Looks like they will have to talk to the local stations and set up a test with an ARRL approved technician.

Bring it on!

 

[digiblur]

If you find yourself at a dead end there's always the "moving" method that people in your situation use.

 

[DaveO]

If you find yourself at a dead end there's always the "moving" method that people in your situation use.

The big problem there is that I do have locals now, just not HD, and I wouldn't want to lose those locals.

 

[digiblur]

The big problem there is that I do have locals now, just not HD, and I wouldn't want to lose those locals.

No can do on that without "moving".

If I were in your shoes I wouldn't fight the hassle with the signal measuring and all, which I believe they will measuring for analog signal anyways.

 

[Hemi 6.1]

I think the cable companys have a hand in these dumb rules as well. They never seem to have trouble getting locals from 2-3 different local market areas, For every Local DMA! Our local cable providers gives us channels from Philly,NY,and Scranton

 

[DaveO]

No can do on that without "moving".

If I were in your shoes I wouldn't fight the hassle with the signal measuring and all, which I believe they will measuring for analog signal anyways.

Well, you missed my "gotcha" in my previous posts. I've got mucho bucks in an antenna system (2 actually), 30 feet high.

I *want* them to measure for analog. I don't have analog signals here except for CBS (in the Winter).

 

[Greg Bimson]

Congratulations, you've now found out why you are being denied distant networks. You already receive local channels. The western Massachusetts area either receives Albany or Springfield locals, and you are entitled to those.

If you want distant HD networks, then that is what you should be asking for. There is no way a waiver will go through for the networks which are available to you. That is also in the "regulations", where if you receive can receive your local channels from DirecTV you cannot get distant networks.

 

[igator99]

Congratulations, you've now found out why you are being denied distant networks. You already receive local channels. The western Massachusetts area either receives Albany or Springfield locals, and you are entitled to those.

If you want distant HD networks, then that is what you should be asking for. There is no way a waiver will go through for the networks which are available to you. That is also in the "regulations", where if you receive can receive your local channels from DirecTV you cannot get distant networks.

Any chance this law could be changed anytime soon? I believe in LA NY locals were now available!? How does that work with the current laws?

 

[digiblur]

Well, you missed my "gotcha" in my previous posts. I've got mucho bucks in an antenna system (2 actually), 30 feet high.

I *want* them to measure for analog. I don't have analog signals here except for CBS (in the Winter).

I wouldn't fight the stupid system, too much trouble and ends up hurting people. I'd just fix it in a 5 minute phone call.

 

[charper1]

Any chance this law could be changed anytime soon? I believe in LA NY locals were now available!? How does that work with the current laws?

Laws? Changed soon? You are kidding right? LOL!

 

[Greg Bimson]

I doubt the law will be changed anytime soon.

I am not sure how correct this is, but fairly certain:

The waivers DirecTV probably put in for is the HD waivers. I don't believe DirecTV will put in SD waivers for someone that already receives their local channels. (that's the part I am unsure of)

If you want a signal test, it will only relate to HD. It is a "loser pays" scenario, so you can see why DirecTV and the local stations would be loathe to even honor it. They definitely will not test analog strength, because that was part of the FCC rulemaking that says if a local channel is available, they don't have to test for it.

 

[ercjncpr]

Googling around I found this regarding the SHVA law:
(From the ARRL web site):

Will ARRL set up testing opportunities at a subscriber's residence? No. The SHVIA provides that satellite television subscribers who are denied retransmission of distant signals may request that the satellite carrier seek a waiver of the denial from the network station that is asserting that retransmission is prohibited. If the network station rejects the waiver request, the subscriber may submit to the carrier a request for a test verifying the subscriber's inability to receive a signal that meets the signal intensity standard. The satellite carrier and the network station or stations will then select a qualified and independent person to conduct a test in accordance with the FCC rules. The test must be conducted within 30 days after the subscriber requests the test. ARRL is not involved in making arrangements for the test, and subscribers should not contact ARRL for such requests. Such requests should be made to the satellite television service provider.

*****************************

I have made the request to D* for testing. Looks like they will have to talk to the local stations and set up a test with an ARRL approved technician.

Bring it on!

ARRL is for Amateur Radio Operators, not for DirecTV subscribers

 

[DaveO]

ARRL is for Amateur Radio Operators, not for DirecTV subscribers

US CODE: Title 47,339. Carriage of distant television stations by satellite carriers

And you should read the SHVA laws. ARRL is the designee to conduct signal strength testing under SHVA. I've been a radio operator since 1956. Last I used was a Collins Kwm-2a, the first a Collins R-390/R390A intercepting morse code over 30 wpm. (I can still do over 20 wpm). (obviously retired a while back) And now back to the situation:

The law, as presented above has provisions for those not being able to receive *digital* signals. That's me.

The latest communication from D* follows:

Dear Mr. xxxxx,

Thank you for writing us back regarding your HD programming. I have forwarded your request for a technician to come and verify that signals are available in your location. A specialist will be researching and will follow up with you within the next 48 hours to assist you further. Please feel free to call us at 1-800-531-5000 for fastest assistance.

Your patience and understanding is greatly appreciated. Again, thank you for writing.

Sincerely,

Rhea P.
Employee ID 100206890
DIRECTV Customer Service

***************************

If you haven't kept up with this thread, I have already tried (through D* making applications for waivers) and been denied waivers by the carriers.

Now, I don't know what is going to come of this but it's obvious that D* is doing their best to comply with SHVA and proceeding as required.

Bottom line is, either I will, or won't get them, but I will keep at it until the last gasp.

It's time that people stopped behaving like sheep, both in situations as simple as tv transmissions via satellite (why the hell can cable carry any stations they want to?), and also behaving like sheep regarding the operation of this country and start getting what we are paying our tax dollars for, not lies, misuse of funds, and outright stealing.

 

[DaveO]

Congratulations, you've now found out why you are being denied distant networks. You already receive local channels. The western Massachusetts area either receives Albany or Springfield locals, and you are entitled to those.

If you want distant HD networks, then that is what you should be asking for. There is no way a waiver will go through for the networks which are available to you. That is also in the "regulations", where if you receive can receive your local channels from DirecTV you cannot get distant networks.

Just not true at all. The waiver request is for HD channels. Your "quote" is also wrong, and they are not regulations, and D* has nothing to do with that *law*.
Perhaps your quote was pre-2006?

I'm not a lawyer and the "law" is difficult to perceive but so far D* has agreed with what is taking place with my request and that is all that matters.

 

[Greg Bimson]

I'm not going to find this quickly, Dave. This link was to the rulemaking procedure for the digital test, as per the FCC. The law points that the FCC has to come up with the digital standard, as the digital standard was not complete in time for it to be passed as law. This was the proposed rulemaking, so you will need to find the report and order that was approved by the FCC for this docket item.

Good news on getting DirecTV to agree to the request for a signal strength test. Keep us up to date.

 

[Greg Bimson]

I did manage to find the FCC's report and order. Good read.

 

[jdspencer]

Have you pestered your local stations about granting a waiver?