DISH's second quarter number posted and they lost 281,000 subs

[Bruce]

Who said they went to Directv ?
No where does it say 281,000 customers went to Directv.
No where is there proof Bundling options are the cause either.
Changing Providers is a pain in the ass when you have 4 other people to be responsible for.
Directv waving around a bundle price isn't taking away Dish customers.

I also doubt they went to DirecTV based on their numbers, the majority of DirecTV's gains were switch overs from Uverse to D* and they still lost almost another 50, 000 subs totals from Uverse ( D* gains 342,000, Uverse lost 391,000).

But bundling could be why Dish numbers are down but we will not now that until the Cable Companies sub numbers are out.

 

[Troch77]

I also doubt they went to DirecTV based on their numbers, the majority of DirecTV's gains were switch overs from Uverse to D* and they still lost almost another 50, 000 subs totals from Uverse ( D* gains 342,000, Uverse lost 391,000).

But bundling could be why Dish numbers are down but we will not now that until the Cable Companies sub numbers are out.

Down 20,000-50,000 . Yeah then blame it on Bundling and cord cutters.
281,000 um, yeah something is wrong , Especially when your company has a Cord Cutter division.

Samsung Galaxy S6 Active

 

[Tampa8]

While that is True, what we are saying is a contract is based on several factors.
If Dish is losing customers, the contract doesn't change because Dish couldn't retain a customer.

The networks are still going to get paid the same.


Samsung Galaxy S6 Active

I wouldn't think so. They are paid a dollar amount per subscriber to the channel. If dish had 10 million subscribed to packages with that channel they get 10 million X the cost of the channel. If the subscribers to those packages drop, then they must get less.

Now where you may close to something - there may be some restrictions on DISH as to what packages it can have without those channels in them and why recent negotiations have been tough as I mentioned above. It may be why or some of the reason why the channels picked to be in the Welcome package or Smart pack are what is picked they have to be in a package with X amount of channels or something along those lines and if they are not they get paid as if they were.
And you are also correct, there are many factors to any contract and neither you or I are saying we know all about it.

 

[rvvaquero]

That's the Difference between you and me, I go by what the real world thinks, you go by what's posted on SatelliteGuys.

You think Dish losing customers because of other people bundle packs, and nothing to do with channel disputes?

That's what SatelliteGuys Dishnetwork fan members say.

Anything to point the finger away from reality.


While a repackaging is nice, It still doesn't make your channels more secure, your HD PQ any better, Or your wallet any less smashed than before.

Most of the ones bragging about there massive savings, are also the same guys that Buy their equipment at retail which is IMO throwing your saving right out the window,
or switch Providers every other year, or call in and beg for charity.

95% of customers don't do this.


Samsung Galaxy S6 Active

You must be confusing me with someone else. I never suggested that I know why DISH is losing subs. I simply stated that the few I knew about left for an opportunity elsewhere. I don't propose to speak for others. My opinion is that DISH is losing customers mainly because many people are cutting the cord and all pay TV providers are having to deal with that. But, that's only my opinion.

If I went by what SatGuys members are saying, I'd agree that DISH is losing customers due to programming disputes, because there's a lot of crying on here about that. But, I don't believe SatGuys is representative of a typical DISH subscriber. I doubt seriously if the typical DISH customer even knows about the NFL dispute. I wouldn't have if I didn't read this forum.

For the record, I'm not a DISH fan. I have service through them because they provide the programming I want at a price I can live with. I could probably get the same from Direct TV, but I've had no reason to try. When DISH no longer suits me, I'll do something else. I don't own my equipment, have not switched providers for over 10 years, and have never called and asked for a discount or rebate.

Lastly, I don't propose to know what 95% of customers do.

 

[Tampa8]

Thinking about it more, no more than the programmers want there to be added subscribers and not get paid for it. As an example - if some get a higher package to see a season of a certain program to get the channel, in the past something like the Walking Dead on AMC or maybe Justified on FX. Or a new series is introduced that becomes popular and more people want the channel that don't have it to see the series...

 

[Troch77]

Thinking about it more, no more than the programmers want there to be added subscribers and not get paid for it. As an example - if some get a higher package to see a season of a certain program to get the channel, in the past something like the Walking Dead on AMC or maybe Justified on FX. Or a new series is introduced that becomes popular and more people want the channel that don't have it to see the series...

That's why they negotiate a contract.
I'm sure the networks figure in for inflation of subscribers.
Dish isn't writing out weekly checks everytime someone comes and goes.

Samsung Galaxy S6 Active

 

[STDog]

It goes by the number of subscibers in the pack during contract negotiations.

I doubt Dish would sign s contract that doesn't adjust if the number that can view a channel goes down.

I doubt the provider would not ensure they benefit if the number goes up.

I expect there is a floor amount, then some amount per subscriber above that that adjusts monthly or quarterly.

 

[Yespage]

That's a different story. People are leaving dish because they are pissed off with the never ending carriage disputes.

So people are leaving Cable and Directv because it is just getting too expensive. And people are leaving Dish because of carriage disputes. Understood.

 

[Yespage]

What I find a bit ironic is that the content providers don't want a la carte, but they have been raising the expense of television so high, we seem to be heading straight towards... well... a la carte. While Dish, Directv, Cable companies are desperately trying to modify how they can make money by giving access to channels as people continue to cut the cable / sat tv cords, you'd think that the content providers themselves would start panicking at some point.

Instead, they force carriage disputes, scraping for every dollar they can. They are destroying the pay tv system, and seem to be oblivious to it.

 

[Juan]

What I find a bit ironic is that the content providers don't want a la carte, but they have been raising the expense of television so high, we seem to be heading straight towards... well... a la carte. While Dish, Directv, Cable companies are desperately trying to modify how they can make money by giving access to channels as people continue to cut the cable / sat tv cords, you'd think that the content providers themselves would start panicking at some point.

Instead, they force carriage disputes, scraping for every dollar they can. They are destroying the pay tv system, and seem to be oblivious to it.

They want their cake and eat it too

 

[STDog]

What I find a bit ironic is that the content providers don't want a la carte

They like the tiered package system. They get paid for everyone subscribing to a package that has the channel. That gets more people access to the channel. Most people wouldn't know what's on the channels let alone pay for them. But since it's there they are more likely to check it out.

With out the tiers and forcing the channels on specific tiers, most of the channels couldn't exist. Just not enough people willing to pay enough for them to stay alive.

That's also the source of tie-ins. If you want to carry popular channel X that many want, you have to carry (and pay for) channels Y and Z on specific tiers to get it exposure.

We've seen this for years. It started in the cable days and was carried over to DBS. Company A says you have to put channels on specific tiers and if you want to carry X you also have to carry Y and Z. X is a must have to be successful (things like ESPN, Disney, SciFi, CNN), so the customers get saddled with Y and Z too.

 

[Yespage]

They like the tiered package system. They get paid for everyone subscribing to a package that has the channel. That gets more people access to the channel. Most people wouldn't know what's on the channels let alone pay for them. But since it's there they are more likely to check it out.

Yes, that is understood that. I was pointing out the slight irony of them being against a system we seem to be heading towards because of them not wanting it.

 

[STDog]

Yes, that is understood that. I was pointing out the slight irony of them being against a system we seem to be heading towards because of them not wanting it.

They will continue to fight it tooth and nail. Just like the music industry fought online, single song sales wanting to stick to the full album model they used for decades.

 

[Yespage]

They will continue to fight it tooth and nail. Just like the music industry fought online, single song sales wanting to stick to the full album model they used for decades.

And yet, people still take music without paying for it.

 

[Bruce]

So people are leaving Cable and Directv because it is just getting too expensive. And people are leaving Dish because of carriage disputes. Understood.

Comcast, Charter, TW and a few others had slight gains in Video last quarter ( DirecTV has been up in Video-almost 700,000 the last 2 quarters, but that is because of ATT moving them over from Uverse).

The biggest gains were in broadband, Comcast up 438,000 high-speed Internet users, TW-314,000, Charter 155,000, etc, etc.

That shows that the cord never and cord cutter crowd are getting bigger and that is why there is no real growth in video.

 

[bobvick]

Comcast, Charter, TW and a few others had slight gains in Video last quarter ( DirecTV has been up in Video-almost 700,000 the last 2 quarters, but that is because of ATT moving them over from Uverse).

The biggest gains were in broadband, Comcast up 438,000 high-speed Internet users, TW-314,000, Charter 155,000, etc, etc.

That shows that the cord never and cord cutter crowd are getting bigger and that is why there is no real growth in video.

AT&T had a net loss of 49,000 for Q2, after consideration of DirecTV connects and UVerse disconnects.

 

[Bruce]

AT&T had a net loss of 49,000 for Q2, after consideration of DirecTV connects and UVerse disconnects.

And 60,000 net losses in the first quarter, the only numbers I do not have is if there was any gains in Uverse broadband only the last 2 quarters.

 

[STDog]

And yet, people still take music without paying for it.

People always did. I remember recording cassettes off the radio or using a friends cassette or record in the 80s.
I had access to family members old 8 track there were recorded form radio or record.
I have my father's 1/4 reels with 60s era LPs that were copied from LPs when he was in Hong Kong.

My point was that the industry fought the changes for a long time.
In the case of music, too long and there was a big alternative market before they even got in the game.
Had they embraced it early on, the alternatives might not be as big as they are even now.
But when the likes of Napster were the only option, that's where people went.

The movie industry hasn't done much better. First they were slow to embrace home media. Remember when VHS tapes cost $100 for new releases? And only the rental stores had/could afford them? Then months later consumer copies were available, though still expensive.
DVD was better pricewise and earlier releases, but still advantaged the rental places. It's just been recently that digital/online versions could be legally acquired at release, and they are still too expense in most cases. Why buy the online version for $10-15 when you can buy the BD/DVD for $5 more and get the online version included? Or get an illegal version for free. The $10 price is still too high, but it has reduced a lot of illegal copies. $5 would reduce it more.

So the TV/Cable stations are just as entrenched. They need to offer their content in new ways in a cost effective manner.
If not people will move to alternatives, whether they are legal or not.

Dish is the current target due to their push back in these disputes. It will come to the others or the costs will rise. Either way, eventually people will leave.

 

[Bob Haller]

businesses in a declining often raise prices in a effort to keep their profits the same.

long term this is dumb since it just makes the collapse worse

 

[bobvick]

And 60,000 net losses in the first quarter, the only numbers I do not have is if there was any gains in Uverse broadband only the last 2 quarters.

I wouldn't doubt broadband gains. I bet they are shutting down the UVerse TV in some areas where they have migrated everyone to DirecTV, and can now offer higher speeds.