DISH -VS- VOOM - A Settlement has been reached!

Actually rainbow Media (VOOM's parent) continues to operate outside of the US. A settlement is possible but I would be just as surprised as riffjim to see it happen. Even what Dish was willing to pay is a bit murky. With apologies to Scott I really don't think that Charlie Ergen or anyone at DISH is an unbiased source-----nor would anyone at rainbow Media qualify.
 
Yup.

Believe it or not Charlie LIKED VOOM.

I got to sit down with Charlie and talk to him about VOOM on a few occasions, in fact a number of SatelliteGuys members were able to sit down with him and talk about VOOM just days after the channels were dropped.

Charlie said he wanted to keep the 5 channels and have VOOM move some of the programs from the dropped channels onto the 5 remaining channels which would lead to much less reruns and repeats. If Charlie didn't like VOOM he wouldn't have kept the 5 most watched channels. The big thing here is that we he removed the 10 channels VOOM demanded that he return them all... or drop them all.

Charlie don't like ultimatiums and pulled them all.
I loved it when ["someone fairly important"] compared what the Voom executives did to Clevon Little (Sheriff Bart) in Blazing Saddles holding the gun to his own head during the discussion!
 
In fairness, a large portion of the VOOM argument is that when DISH retiered VOOM it meant that there were fewer subs and therefore lower payments. So, (at least according to VOOM)while it may be accurate to say that DISH was willing to pay the same price for 5 channels as 21 there is still a lower payment and that is what upset VOOM initially.

I am still skeptical about some of VOOM's claims and about their likelihood of success but let's be fair to both sides,
 
In fairness, a large portion of the VOOM argument is that when DISH retiered VOOM it meant that there were fewer subs and therefore lower payments. So, (at least according to VOOM)while it may be accurate to say that DISH was willing to pay the same price for 5 channels as 21 there is still a lower payment and that is what upset VOOM initially.
Absolutely. VOOM had no reason to accept having VOOMHD programming moved to what basically amounted to an a la carte tier when DISH was required, under the affiliation agreement, to pay up to $5-$6 per subscriber per month for something like 93% of their total number of HD customer. I don't recall the exact numbers (someone can look 'em up in this thread from years gone by if they wish) but VOOM would be foolish to pass-up $5 per month from 10M Dish HD customers for their 15-channel lineup (50M per month) and agree to accepting $5 per month from oh, let's say 200K customers for a downsized 5-channel lineup (1M per month).

I am still skeptical about some of VOOM's claims and about their likelihood of success but let's be fair to both sides,

Both parties signed a bad agreement for reasons I have mentioned ad nauseum, but if VOOM proves their claims then they win - if not, then Dish wins. Of course, even if VOOM wins they will have a herculean effort trying to prove damages to the court. I'm on record 2-years ago stating VOOM will win this case and that they will be awarded 500-700M including damages. Still, a negative verdict is a whole lot cheaper for Dish/SATS than to have paid VOOM for the full 15-years of the affiliation agreement.

Dish could very well win this case...I just don't see it happening.

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I think looking at who carried them is a good indication of how successful they were... :rolleyes:

By likelihood of success I was referring only to the likelihood of success in this case. VOOM's claim to fame was the fact that they had several HD Channels at a time when there were not many out there. in the last few years the number of channels out there has expanded greatly and neither DISH nor anyone else felt they needed them.

All of a sudden everyone thinks I am a VOOMista. That is not true. I did make a few comments here about people apparently trusting statements from the other party in this litigation a bit more than might be appropriate. But I was nota big VOOM fan.
 
Let's not forget that Dish claims that Voom violated the agreement, rendering it void, before they retiered Voom. To me, the one and only question is if Voom met it's requirements. Either they did and Dish violated their agreement, or the didn't, and there was not agreement. I'm predicting the latter. I don't buy that overhead spending is spending on the service.

I also think your math is a bit off. I don't see Dish having 10M HD customers if they are charging $20 for HD, as they did when they had Voom, as well as with Dish missing a number of HD channels due to Voom taking up space. That was the reason for the audit and the eventual change. Voom was not bringing in the customers.
 
Dish has what, 14 million total customers today ? Highly unlikely -- contrary to the assumptions from many here -- that 10 million are HD subscribers.
 
VOOM's claim to fame was the fact that they had several HD Channels at a time when there were not many out there.
First, I'm not suggesting you're "pro-VOOM" - don't worry there. Second, I agree that VOOM had a lot of HD channels when not many existed, but the fact is, very few people cared. If someone wanted as much HD as possible, sure, Dish was probably one of the better options. But again, most didn't care.... They stuck with D* or cable or used OTA.

In the end, and I've stated this for years, Dish looked at the number of viewers of VOOM channels and it's safe to assume, the number were abysmal. They knew they were paying a TON of money for what was giving them little return and yes, they looked for a way out .... and in their legal team's opinion, found one.
 
My guess would be maybe half the total.

I think VOOM had projected Dish would have 10M HD customers by 2012. I'm no subscribe to Dish so I gave my 74 year-old mother-in-law an old 622. I she's has HD then I would assume a large percentage of customers have also upgraded. Does anyone how many HD subscribers they currently have?

Regardless, it didn't make any sense for VOOM to agree to be re-tiered...even if Dish had as little as few as 2M HD customers.
 
I'd guess it's below half too, maybe 40% tops!

Didn't they (VOOM) let the number slip out in some court filings ? Yes, they did....

Echostar's HD subscriber base ... approximately 20,000 at the end of 2005 to approximately 1.3 million at the end of 2007
Granted, that 1.3m number is from 3-4 years ago, but if anyone thinks that number has doubled or tripled or more is quite ambitious !
 
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Ain't it the truth. I'm still reading where people have HDTVs- hooked up via coax! Last I heard, recently, was a claim that 30% of HDTV owners did not have an HD feed to those TVs.
 
Ain't it the truth. I'm still reading where people have HDTVs- hooked up via coax! Last I heard, recently, was a claim that 30% of HDTV owners did not have an HD feed to those TVs.

Parents have a SD-DVR (D* R15) hooked to their 720p flat screen. I'm going to take over paying their bill in part for mom about to start babysitting out newborn 4x/week and upgrading them is the first thing I'm going to do.
 
Appellate Court affimrs state Supreme Court's sanctions against EchoStar

Well, last week the Appellate Court affirmed the sanctions (spoliation) against EchoStar. I think we'll see a settlement in the near future on this issue...probably in the tune of 700M+. Anyway, I've attached the ruling (you can read through the entire 26-pages if you wish) and highlighted a few items that I though were most relevant:

"During October 2007, EchoStar conducted an audit of Voom's 2006 investment in the service. On October 26, 2007 EchoStar's own audit concluded, in an email sent to Crawford, that "Everything at VOOM looks fine...these guys are clean...very organized, forthcoming, and from an accounting perspective run a good shop."

"On January 30, 2008, EchoStar formally "terminated the Agreement effective February 1, 2008." Voom commenced this action the next day. EchoStar did not implement a litigation hold until after Voom filed suit. Yet this purported "hold" did not suspect EchoStar's automatic deletion of e-mails. Thus, any e-mails sent and any e-mails deleted by an employee were automatically and permanently purged after seven days. It was not until June 1, 2008 - four months after the commencement of the lawsuit, and nearly one year after EchoStar was on notice of anticipated litigation - that EchoStar suspected the automatic deletion of relevant e-mails."

"We agree with the motion court that an adverse inference was warranted because EchoStar's spoliation of electronic evidence was the result of gross negligence at the very least, and now affirm."

"In any event, the record shows that the destroyed evidence was relevant. The "snapshot" e-mails reviewed by the motion court "demonstrated EchoStar's intention to declare various breaches by Voom" as an excuse for terminating the agreement. These e-mails - a handful only fortuitously recovered, and highly relevant - certainly permitted the inference that the unrecoverable e-mails, of which the snapshots were but a representative sampling, would have also be relevant." Moreover, the missing evidence prejudiced VOOM...EchoStar's internal communications undoubedly concerned issues about what it understood the contract to mean, a contract that the motion court has now found to be ambiguous."

"In sum, the motion court's spoliation sanction was appropriate and proportionate."

"To the extent that EchoStar was actually negotiating in good faith, which the evidence suggest is doubtful, that does not vitiate the duty to preserve evidence."

"Accordingly, the motion court properly determined that EchoStar should have reasonably anticipated litigation as early as June 2007 and certainily no later than February 1, 2008, the date the complaint was filed; that EchoStar was grossly negligent in failing to implement a litigation hold until after litigation had already commended; that EchoStar did not implement an appropriate litigation hold until June 2008, approximately four months after litigation had commenced; that such failures entitled the finder of fact to presume the relevancy of the destroyed electronic data; and that an adverse inference charge was an apppropriate spoliation sanction in light of the above."

"We have considered EchoStar's remaining contentions and find them unavailing."

"Accordingly, the order of the Supreme Court, New York County, entered November 9, 2010, which, insofar as appealed from, granted plaintiff's motion to impose sanctions againt defendant from the spoliation of evidence and to bar defendant from calling nonparty Avram Tucker as an expert witness at trial and from introducing his expert report, should be affirmed, with costs."
 

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Your late to the party on that one, we had a separate thread about it earlier in the week. But I guess its good to post it here in this thread which is like a play by play of the entire fiasco. :D
 
My search on another issue brought out this one.;) It's been awhile.

While I wasn't surprised E* got sanctioned, I did notice the motion court had also determined the contract "ambiguous." I wonder if this is what is holding up an otherwise a clear case for VOOM.
 
My search on another issue brought out this one.;) It's been awhile.

While I wasn't surprised E* got sanctioned, I did notice the motion court had also determined the contract "ambiguous." I wonder if this is what is holding up an otherwise a clear case for VOOM.

If the contract is "ambiguous" then the courts must reply on what both parties reasonably understood the contract to mean. In this case, everything hinges on the accounting methods used by VOOM to meet the 100M spend requirement. From everything I have seen so far (EchoStar's audit findings in October 2007, VOOMs financials and accounting artifacts provided to EchoStar, the court's imposed sanctions (spoilage of evidence) and interpretation of, at least, some of the financials...well, you gotta conclude this matter is going to come out in VOOMs favor. I'm not going to belabor the point, but everything VOOM has claimed back in 2008 has not been disputed by the evidence we've seen. The only issue (to me) is how much this matter is going to cost Dish...100M?...500M...1000M...or 1500M? I have no idea.
 

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