DISH -VS- VOOM - A Settlement has been reached!

[riffjim4069]

Memories...of the way we were

I certainly don't disagree about whether they need to do something. Just moving the channels and the rights to rainbow might not be all that easy. You a re correct that this would effectively close out E*'s equity but for that reason alone E* would likely challenge the move. Also folding the VOOM service----and it sounds like that si waht youa re advocating---would further complicate the issue of entitlement here.

Yep, shuttling the VOOM service and rolling-it-over and transforming operations under Rainbow Media may create more legal issues, but since both parties are busy pissing in each other Wheaties, I see this as being a good move for VOOM...sure beats sitting on their hands and waiting for a final court ruling years from now. Since EchoStar moved to terminate the Affiliation Agreement, VOOM closing out E*'s ownership seems like the next logical step since "things" will never go back to the way they were.

The way I see it...VOOM is the majority owner (80%); E* terminated the Affiliation Agreement and no longer has a horse in this race; VOOM no longer has any long-term domestic customers (expect for 900K interim Cablevision customers); both parties has stated VOOM has been losing money. VOOM will be foolish to continue to "stay the course" unless they are extremely confident they will prevail in court. However, even if they are successful a few years down the way....VOOM is effectively DOA if they don't do something soon; it will merely exist on CableVision the next couple years, showing repeat-after-repeat (makes no sense to invest money in something you are killing), while their war with E* winds through the courts.

If this is VOOM's strategy, then screw 'em...I hope they are awarded a brand new $1 bill. If not, it's time for VOOM to sh*t or get off the pot. If Cablevision is serious about VOOM, then it's time to play hardball and aggresively market and promote the VOOM product (whatever that may be).

 

[mike123abc]

Echostar discontinuing broadcast of VOOM is different from ownership. Just because they stopped showing VOOM does not mean they gave up their ownership in the company.

 

[Spatch]

Didn't Dish only stop broadcasting 10 of the Voom channels? I thought Voom pulled the other 5.

 

[riffjim4069]

Echostar discontinuing broadcast of VOOM is different from ownership. Just because they stopped showing VOOM does not mean they gave up their ownership in the company.

Nobody said they did? EchoStar still has a 20% stake in VOOM, and Rainbow Media has the other 80% along with a controlling interest. However, VOOM has lost millions during the first 3 years and they no longer have paying clients, except for their "Interim" arrangement with Cablevision. Therefore, it's time to shuttle the VOOM and send E* their 20% (which is probably $0.00) minus the affiliation fees, from July-Dec 2007, VOOM claims they are owed, along with another 4 1/2 months of affiliation fees VOOM claims E* has not paid from 1 Jan - 13 May. Without knowing specifics, I would have to conclude E*'s equity in VOOM is probably less than nothing at this point. Since the courts have already ruled that the VOOM brand is practically worthless (Motion for Temporary Injunction) , Rainbow Media should acquire VOOM HD assets at fair market value and transform/rebrand the old VOOM channels under Rainbow Media. After all what's E* going to do...sue them?

Rainbow Media can then schlock the new programming to potential buyers without affecting their case against E*.

 

[FitzAusTex]

Didn't Dish only stop broadcasting 10 of the Voom channels? I thought Voom pulled the other 5.

It may be more accurate to say that Voom told E* that they could not carry only 5 channels. Voom, afterall, has an agreement that calls for 15 channels to be carried, not just 5, and not merely in the HD Ultimate tier, but to at least 93% of E*'s HD customers.

 

[Peter Parker]

Didn't Dish only stop broadcasting 10 of the Voom channels? I thought Voom pulled the other 5.

Fitz Aus and I have not agreed on much inthis thread but I agree with him on this. I see nothing that gave DISH the right to choose which channels they would carry.

 

[Peter Parker]

Nobody said they did? EchoStar still has a 20% stake in VOOM, and Rainbow Media has the other 80% along with a controlling interest. However, VOOM has lost millions during the first 3 years and they no longer have paying clients, except for their "Interim" arrangement with Cablevision. Therefore, it's time to shuttle the VOOM and send E* their 20% (which is probably $0.00) minus the affiliation fees, from July-Dec 2007, VOOM claims they are owed, along with another 4 1/2 months of affiliation fees VOOM claims E* has not paid from 1 Jan - 13 May. Without knowing specifics, I would have to conclude E*'s equity in VOOM is probably less than nothing at this point. Since the courts have already ruled that the VOOM brand is practically worthless (Motion for Temporary Injunction) , Rainbow Media should acquire VOOM HD assets at fair market value and transform/rebrand the old VOOM channels under Rainbow Media. After all what's E* going to do...sue them?

Rainbow Media can then schlock the new programming to potential buyers without affecting their case against E*.

DISH could indeed sue Rainbow at that point to block the transfer. They would probably be joined by any VOOM creditors.

rainbow may own 80% of VOOm but that does not mean that they can transfer the assets of a company they owe 80% of to one they owe 1005 of.

BTW the programming library of VOOm is an asset. I have no idea what it is worth but if it has any value at all the minority stockholder and any creditors have certain rights.

 

[riffjim4069]

Modified Spipulation...

Well, it looks like both parties agreed to push back the court timeline 4-6 months. This may not go to trial until 2010.

Complete discovery and inspection: November 28, 2008 (was July 30, 2008)
Depositions shall begin on or after: November 28, 2008 (was July 30, 2008)
Depositions shall end by: August 21, 2009 (was April 17, 2009)
Initial expert reports by: June 12, 2009 (was February 13, 2009)
Rebuttal expert reports by: July 10, 2009 (was March 13, 2009)
Depostions of experts completed by: August 21, 2009 (was April 17, 2009)
End date for all disclosure: August 21, 2009 (was April 17, 2009)
Compliance Conference: August 21, 2009 (was April 17, 2009)
Note of Issue: September 18, 2009 (was May 14, 2009)

 

[Jim S.]

WTF is all that necessary for? This is an open-and-shut case!

 

[Mojo]

WTF is all that necessary for? This is an open-and-shut case!

Both are playing Big Corporation court games.

The lawyers will makeout big time with billable hours on both sides

Us Voom fans are the only real losers, we will not see Voom again for a long time.......if ever

 

[riffjim4069]

WTF is all that necessary for? This is an open-and-shut case!

You would think that being the affiliation agreement was drafted by Madison Avenue lawyers working for 2 multi-billion dollar corporations. Apparently, both EchoStar and VOOM, and their teams of lawyers, can't create and/or interpret a simple contract. Perhaps we need a little legal reform in this country as well...just look at the TiVo versus E* case.

 

[riffjim4069]

Update...

The court finalized the preliminary stipulation on 10 September. In a nutshell, they confirmed the dates listed below and set a time (court) for the Compliance Conference: October 23, 2008 (2:30 p.m.)

Well, it looks like both parties agreed to push back the court timeline 4-6 months. This may not go to trial until 2010.

Complete discovery and inspection: November 28, 2008 (was July 30, 2008)
Depositions shall begin on or after: November 28, 2008 (was July 30, 2008)
Depositions shall end by: August 21, 2009 (was April 17, 2009)
Initial expert reports by: June 12, 2009 (was February 13, 2009)
Rebuttal expert reports by: July 10, 2009 (was March 13, 2009)
Depostions of experts completed by: August 21, 2009 (was April 17, 2009)
End date for all disclosure: August 21, 2009 (was April 17, 2009)
Compliance Conference: August 21, 2009 (was April 17, 2009)
Note of Issue: September 18, 2009 (was May 14, 2009)

 

[btedford]

Part of me hopes that Echostar loses this battle because I believe that Charlie Ergen is not the smartest businessman in the world, Dish has and has had lawsuits all over the place if I am not mistaken, with Viacom, with TiVO, with Fox and others.

 

[mike123abc]

The SCOTUS denied Dish's appeal:

The court also refused to disturb a $74 million judgment against Dish Network Corp. for violating a patent held by TiVo involving digital video recorders.

The justices denied Englewood, Colo.-based Dish's appeal Monday without comment.

In January, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit agreed with a lower court that DVRs distributed by Dish, formerly known as EchoStar Communications Corp., violated the software elements of the patent held by Tivo, Inc., based in Alviso,Calif. The ruling overturned the lower court's finding that Dish also infringed on the patent's hardware elements.

Supreme Court Term Opens With 'Light' Cigarette Lawsuit - WSJ.com

Looks like Dish will pay up soon on the original damages.

 

[8bitbytes]

The SCOTUS denied Dish's appeal:



Supreme Court Term Opens With 'Light' Cigarette Lawsuit - WSJ.com

Looks like Dish will pay up soon on the original damages.

This is the Voom thread, not the Tivo thread.

 

[riffjim4069]

For anyone following the case...

...a compliance conference is scheduled for December 12th at 2:30pm. The real fireworks won't start until next summer.

 

[riffjim4069]

It sure has been quiet since VOOM pulled the plug on their US operations, and not much happening in public in this case. There was a compliance appearance on 01/08/2009 and the next court appearance is scheduled for 04/09/2009.

 

[jacmyoung]

It sure has been quiet since VOOM pulled the plug on their US operations...

What's left to talk about in April?

 

[Bruuce]

Talk about a kick in the junk. I only went with Dish to get the Voom network, specifically Monsters HD. And then a few months later they got turned off. I seriously doubt Voom comes back but I would still like to know what exactly happened between the two companies.

 

[riffjim4069]

What's left to talk about in April?

I will assume discovery requests, deposition schedules, etc. According to the court schedule, depositions will continue all the way through 'till August 21st.