Dish sheds 102,000 subs and reports a Profit

[mixedday]

On Tivo, if the judge rules that Dish must shut off the DVR's what is Charlie going to do?

From the big picture Dish will be doing business with Tivo. He would be doing business with them today but they have an honest disagreement. The judge will more then likly make a ruling which will set the ground rules going forward. Dish and Tivo have a lot in common.

(Charlie has been attending the Chase Carey speech school, with a lot of UMMMs today)

Charlie says he would need to see the Judges ruling before deciding how to move ahead.

On to next question. What can you do to reverse the downword trends of new subscribers.

Charlie says that from a marketing perspective that they are second tier compaired to their competition. (How many YEARS have I been saying that Dish Networks marketing sucks...)

Charlie says consumers are downsizing their costs and that is a good thing for them (dish). (I dont see how its a good thing.)

Maybe Dish could just buy TiVo? The benefit could be for the name/goodwill, IP property, ending a lawsuit, marketing and competitive advantage (to DirecTV).

TiVo has name and supporter loyalty and recognition.

And while Dish's DVRs may be better, the average customer tends to first look at the prices (of all the costs), as DVRs are still a luxury item. A customer choosing between DirecTV or Dish won't know if the Dish DVR is better, (the EPG is user friendly or not) or not, until they've become accustomed to one, and had a chance to use another, but by then the customer is on a contract. From buying Tivo, Dish could just incorporate some TiVo features (some of its software) into the next rollouts (take out anything that would help Dish's models), the peanut shaped remote possibly, while retaining majority of the 722/922 product in the next DVR/receiver model, and keep some of TiVo's software engineers on the Dish's staff.

At the same time, Dish could cease new sales of TiVo's standalone models. That'd hurt cable and Fios to an extent, as those Fios and cable customers would have only the DVR that's provided by the cable telco.

Aside from TiVo, Dish could do what DirecTV does and make it a lot harder for customers to drop. DirecTV's get out of contract is $20x remaining months. Dish's is $10x remaining months. Right?

I think though DirecTV knew to target some markets better. I mean they carry YES in the NY market, while Dish didn't. That's a huge market where Dish didn't see the potential value in to go after customers. Cable is still a lot higher in price in NY, and DirecTV is considered a value there.

In Philly, DirecTV carries more local channels. I don't think customers like when locals are dropped. Dish quietly dropped WYBE. It's a lot worse than when ordinary cable nets are dropped. Dish plays bean counter (dropping locals) thinking they'll save money here and there, but it may make them lose customers.

 

[damjr]

Another thing to consider is that Dish Network has been canning a lot of retailers lately that they state have committed fraud. I am sure this has contributed to fewer subscriber additions but also helped save the company money not having to pay full commissions acquring the same subscriber twice.

This is a bigger part of the profit growth than you think. Not only is Dish not paying out commissions but they also get to keep all the monthly residuals they were paying out each month as well.

 

[jimboeau]

No. The worst recession in 70 years has nothing to do with it.

Actually worst since the late 70's. And you are correct it doesn't have anything to do with it.....

 

[MikeD-C05]

Actually it dosent.

If the economy was causing issues DirecTV's numbers would mirror Dish Networks. Instead for the 4th quarter DirecTV had a record quarter and positive subscriber growth.

Directv targets HIGH end subs with good CREDIT scores and DISH targets the low income VALUE customer. Guess which ones give up pay tv first in a bad economy? That is why DISH is in a fix.

 

[DodgerKing]

Directv targets HIGH end subs with good CREDIT scores and DISH targets the low income VALUE customer. Guess which ones give up pay tv first in a bad economy? That is why DISH is in a fix.

Then explain why all of the other providers are growing as well, FiOS, U-Verse, and even including low end cable sub growth in many localities. It seems that the only major provider really hurting and losing subs is Dish.

 

[MikeD-C05]

Then explain why all of the other providers are growing as well, FiOS, U-Verse, and even including low end cable sub growth in many localities. It seems that the only major provider really hurting and losing subs is Dish.

Well if you add to the normal people who are low income and can't afford the pay tv model any longer in a recession, you can also add to the following:

The arrogance factor of Charlie Ergen and lawsuits after lawsuits.
Poor customer service -non english speaking foreign call centers.
Poor marketing and advertising- do we need kindergarten commercials?
Lack of some of the same national hd channels that Directv has and has had for over a year.
Constant battles over retransmission rights for locals and sports packs that some people really want.
CONFUSING programming packs with crazy ways to combine them- does anyone know what they are calling it this week or how much they are paying ?


I have said it before and I will say it again. CHARLIE Needs to learn the KISS method of business; keep it simple stupid! And if he would do something really revolutionary to attract new subs and keep older ones like;

Covering all dvrs on an account with dvr advantage. It makes no sense to have dvr advantage and still have to pay extra dvr fees on other dvr receivers.
Reduce the cost of your extra receivers from the highest priced 7.00 to 5.00 like the competition. OR if you really want to get more subs , add a whole house lease fee or additional receiver fee of say 9.00 that covers up to 3 extra receivers after the first.
How about doing away with the extra price for hd if you have AEP? Then you could advertise that you no longer charge for hd is you have AEP and no dvr fees. AEP would become the best programming pack and the most wanted due to best value. THen all your subs who went to AEP would get your average revenue per sub up . Wouldn't you as a company rather have more subs paying over $100.00 a month than $40.00 a month?

In the end it is the bean counters who will do DISH in . THey will keep making more profit on the existing subs backs , till there are no more subs. CHarlie end the excuses and make the changes already. You have no time to waste.

 

[damjr]

Directv targets HIGH end subs with good CREDIT scores and DISH targets the low income VALUE customer. Guess which ones give up pay tv first in a bad economy? That is why DISH is in a fix.

Sorry but you are wrong here. I have retailers that sell Dish, DTV, and FIOS and it is easier to get customers approved through DTV and FIOS than Dish.
If you have a pulse you qualify for DTV/FIOS but with Dish a retailer is lucky to approve 4 out of 10 customers they run. Now all the customers that don't qualify for Dish do for DTV/FIOS. So who has the higher credit criteria?
This has been the case now going back to Aug. Most retailers I know are struggling to stay afloat because they can't get enough customers approved to justify advertising costs.

 

[jwgreen68]

Directv targets HIGH end subs with good CREDIT scores and DISH targets the low income VALUE customer. Guess which ones give up pay tv first in a bad economy? That is why DISH is in a fix.

You shouldn't make an analogy like that. You have absolutely no proof to back up such a statement. And as a Dish sub, with a good credit rating, I take offense to that. There are just as many deadbeats that don't pay their cable or Directv bill. As long as you're lumping people together, you might as well say that only poor people buy Little Caesars pizza because they can't afford Dominos or Pizza Hut! Or better yet, only poor people become drug addicts or prostitutes. Do you want me to go on? or have I made my point?

 

[WebTraveler]

HDRoberts, you missed the point entirely. Holding ME hostage for the dispute between Fisher and Dish is ridiculous. Fisher has stated that they have agreed to the Dish compensation for my station. But the deal is not getting done due to unrelated disputes to me. I don't care. I have Dish because I want to watch TV. Dish is screwing me over something I can't control. I will note every other provider in my market has Fisher channels. Comcast, Directv, Verizon Fios. I have a choice and Dish can rot as far as I am concerned. Screwing me over is not the way to build loyalty. Dish can kiss mine. Looks like a 102K net loss of other people think so too. Treat customers badly and they lose faith.

First, who is to say it isn't Fish that is holding the channel hostage? If they have agreed to pricing going forward, I would imagine Dish would be willing to restore the channel.

Can't say much about Dish v Fisher accessibility. But it's probably in Fisher's interest to spread only their side of the story. Perhaps they have agreed to Dish's price IF Dish cut's them a big one time check for the acquired stations.

But, back to topic. I doubt the Fisher issues are the big reason for Dish's Q4 problems.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

If your not happy about the Fisher situation you can cancel your service an your cancelation fee will be waived.

Fisher made its own bed and now is crying because Dish didn't bow to them.

 

[WebTraveler]

I wouldn't blame you for leaving but I wouldn't place all the blame on E*. Fisher started the battle by filing suit against E* for backpayment of carriage fees for a station they didn't even own until recently and was a must carry Univision station if memory serves. Just because Fisher says they are willing to separate the two issues, doesn't mean it is in E*'s interest to do so. I don't know all the particulars but I'll bet Fisher isn't telling the whole story. They are trying to rev up discontent against E* for their own advantage.

And I will bet you Dish is not telling the whole story either. How do you even know that Dish doesn't owe for these other channels? You don't. You speculate that based upon what Dish has stated publicly. Fisher has said something else publicly. Putting me in the middle of this game is just plain wrong. I can see the Dish attitude, hold a vendetta at all costs and screw everyone along the way in all the incidental damage. This is why Dish is losing subscribers. It's arrogance.

 

[WebTraveler]

If your not happy about the Fisher situation you can cancel your service an your cancelation fee will be waived.

Fisher made its own bed and now is crying because Dish didn't bow to them.

How do you know this? Do you possess some insider trading or are you just trying to throw something into the mix to antagonize me? You don't know any more other than what the two companies have publicly stated. You are no expert on this, or are you?

The ONLY point is that whatever the dispute between those two parties is that I have no part in it. I am being penalized. This is what I get Dish for. Dish is simply not delivering. Top that off and Dish is MORE than Directv for a package comparable to mine. The end price is the same and then I can get some bundle discount through the phone company. If Fisher is jacking the cost up, why is the competitor cost the same or less?

 

[Slamminc11]

And I will bet you Dish is not telling the whole story either. How do you even know that Dish doesn't owe for these other channels? You don't. You speculate that based upon what Dish has stated publicly. Fisher has said something else publicly. Putting me in the middle of this game is just plain wrong. I can see the Dish attitude, hold a vendetta at all costs and screw everyone along the way in all the incidental damage. This is why Dish is losing subscribers. It's arrogance.

Then f'in' leave already, geez!

 

[Hemi 6.1]

You shouldn't make an analogy like that. You have absolutely no proof to back up such a statement. And as a Dish sub, with a good credit rating, I take offense to that. There are just as many deadbeats that don't pay their cable or Directv bill. As long as you're lumping people together, you might as well say that only poor people buy Little Caesars pizza because they can't afford Dominos or Pizza Hut! Or better yet, only poor people become drug addicts or prostitutes. Do you want me to go on? or have I made my point?

+1 See we can agree.

 

[WebTraveler]

Then f'in' leave already, geez!

What value does this add? To show that you can abbreviate a swear word?

 

[Hemi 6.1]

What value does this add? To show that you can abbreviate a swear word?

What good does it do to complain over and over about a provider YOU chose? You can leave, Thats why there are so many choices out there.

 

[jwgreen68]

+1 See we can agree.

:up:up

 

[Slamminc11]

What value does this add? To show that you can abbreviate a swear word?

you have what, 16 posts on this site and over half of them are you whining about Fisher...You don't like the way Dish is handling it, then head somewhere else and give the rest of us a break already...

 

[Hemi 6.1]

. Top that off and Dish is MORE than Directv for a package comparable to mine.

Again, Why don't you have D* then???

 

[WebTraveler]

What good does it do to complain over and over about a provider YOU chose? You can leave, Thats why there are so many choices out there.

I CHOSE A PROVIDER THAT HAD ALL OF THE LOCAL CHANNELS. It's a hassle to switch. By the way, I can complain all I want. At least I can state truthful facts. If you don't like the truth, then don't read it. If you like propaganda, listen to Charlie Ergen. He is full of bull.