Dish Retention No Longer Offering A Discount

[bookworm370]

Well, since they still have the best DVR in the H3 and nobody is pushing them, why waste the money developing something? If it ain’t broke…………………..

Well, as the company that made the last buggy whip would tell you, they made the best darn buggy whip that there ever was! Where's that company now?

As history and even Darwin has reminded us. If you don't evolve you die. CEO's jobs are not to look at the business today but if there will be a business next year!

 

[Tvland1]

Seems that people here are hung up on DVR...Like Bruce posted and myself it's old school.I have 3 daughters two in early 30's one in twenties and none of them have any interest in cable,satellite DVR..It's all about being able to get on the internet and browse available shows..They won't take time to mess around with the guide and setup a dvr.Thats why Charlie is trying to make it possible to browse the internet with the Hopper plus..That's great but the problem is he needed that 5yrs ago..They should have kept up with the streaming instead of introducing it now when everyone has already went a different direction..People are not going to subscribe to dish now because they have the Hopper plus..He's hoping to slow down the numbers of people leaving.

 

[dweber]

I have 11 rooms with TVs, only one gets all day use, the rest a little to none, but I need access for when I have guests or for other reasons.

For example, the Living Room it is always on, so I can see paying for a box, the outdoor theater is only on Live TV in the morning, watching CNN while I am on the Life Cycle for 2 hours, at night, always watching a streaming service like Netflix Paramount, Vudu, etc.

The TVs in my bedroom and Kitchen, never except for noise in my bedroom when I was tossing my wife’s stuff a few weeks ago.

The rest are my kid’s former rooms and guest rooms..

What you need to do is use Dish Anywhere with an Amazon Firestick on the TV’s that have little use. I use Dish Anywhere with a Firestick when I am on my exercise bike in the basement. It works very well and I don’t have to pay for another Joey3.

 

[NashGuy]

What you need to do is use Dish Anywhere with an Amazon Firestick on the TV’s that have little use. I use Dish Anywhere with a Firestick when I am on my exercise bike in the basement. It works very well and I don’t have to pay for another Joey3.

This is exactly what I was going to suggest to Bruce. Dish doesn't charge you anything extra to use their Dish Anywhere app on as many different TVs/devices as you want, do they? I imagine they just place a limit on the number of streams that they will serve at the same time to those devices. But that doesn't sound like it would be an issue for Bruce.

 

[NashGuy]

While they need to hold onto the subscribers they have, Dish need to innovate to attract new subs, be it smaller packages or figure out a way to get rid of some of the fees.

I have posted this before, I would have Dish except I refuse to pay those extra fees.

I don't blame you. Paying hardware rental fees for 11 TVs would be (IMO) nuts!

As for Dish innovating, I honestly think that they've been the most innovative out of all the traditional pay TV operators. Some years ago, they made locals optional and gave customers a way to integrate free OTA locals into their DVRs. They also were at the forefront of trying to create skinnier, lower-cost packages (e.g. Welcome Pack) and more flexible build-it-yourself packages (e.g. Flex Pack, Heartland Pack, Multi-Sport Pack, etc.). And obviously Sling was their biggest foray into the bare-bones, low-cost pay TV arena. Among other major MVPDs, I'd say Charter is the only one who comes close to what Dish has done but they did so after Dish's lead.

Dish has fought harder than any other MVPD to drive a hard bargain and hold prices down -- to the detriment of the service, some consumers would say, given the frequency of channel black-outs that Dish has experienced when Charlie Ergen has walked away from the negotiating table. Some of those black-outs have been long-term, such as HBO/Cinemax (now back on after a 2 yr+ absence) and most RSNs (still gone).

And on the tech side, Dish has also been one of the most innovative with their Hopper line of DVRs (with PrimeTime Anytime, AutoSkip, Google Assistant, etc.), alongside Comcast's X1 platform. And now that Dish is embracing Google's Android TV, they're gaining access to a whole bunch of apps that can live alongside the main pay TV service.

The problem Dish is facing is the same one all MVPDs face: fewer and fewer Americans are interested in paying for cable TV at any price that would allow the MVPD to make even a meager profit. And being a DBS, rather than cable or fiber, operator puts Dish at a further disadvantage because they can't naturally bundle broadband in with their service to make it stickier. And at least until they get their new 5G service up and profitable, Dish really has no other business line to fall back on as a main profit center (the way cable and fiber operators do) -- they fully rely on pay TV.

 

[Bruce]

What you need to do is use Dish Anywhere with an Amazon Firestick on the TV’s that have little use. I use Dish Anywhere with a Firestick when I am on my exercise bike in the basement. It works very well and I don’t have to pay for another Joey3.

One-I really hate the Firestick

Two-I would have to buy about 9-10 Firesticks when I already have Roku TVs in all the rooms, in the Living Room, I use Android TV that came with my Sony A90J and a Roku Ultra with my projector in the outside theater.

Three-what good would one stream do when I have a lot of people here for my wife’s memorial and Thanksgiving.

Four-If Comcast and Charter can offer their channels via their app on multiple streaming devices and at no limit, there is no reason Dish cannot.

Five-Dish already offers Sling TV on multiple streaming devices, why not Dish Anywhere.

Six-I believe my idea of getting Dish for the main TV, combining it with Sling for the other TVs that get extremely little use is a good one, if they want to get new customers, you have to look at what is chasing away the existing subscribers, those extra fees is a big part of that, sometimes you have to think outside the box.

Seven-If Dish did something like I suggested, or did it like Comcast and Charter, I would really think about becoming a Dish Subscriber, but there is no way I am going to pay a extra $50 a month for boxes that barely get used.

Eight-Those fees really peeve me off, the same reason I will not consider Charter, while you can get their service without box fees, they have those sneaky Broadcast ($21.99 a month) and Sports ($5 a month).

Nine-There is nothing wrong with thinking outside the box, the only two Live TV providers that are gaining in subscribers are YTTV ( by not charging extra fees for DVR and offering 5 streams) or Hulu Live ( combining DVR, Disney and ESPN+ at the same price).

Ten-Same reason why I would not consider DirecTV, they are even worse with the fees and compared to Dish, seem to me a total disaster right now, I honestly do not understand how they have more subscribers then Dish with their much higher prices and old equipment.

 

[NashGuy]

Five-Dish already offers Sling TV on multiple streaming devices, why not Dish Anywhere.

Sounds like most of your argument can be boiled down to this. And you're right, if they've already engineered their Sling app to work on Apple TV, Roku, Android TV, Xbox, Samsung TV, LG TV, etc. (in addition to Fire TV), why can't they port their Dish Anywhere to those same platforms too? I think it's mainly a case of not wanting to lose all those hardware rental fees. They were willing to start down that road just a bit with one platform but then said, "No more."

 

[Bruce]

Sounds like most of your argument can be boiled down to this. And you're right, if they've already engineered their Sling app to work on Apple TV, Roku, Android TV, Xbox, Samsung TV, LG TV, etc. (in addition to Fire TV), why can't they port their Dish Anywhere to those same platforms too? I think it's mainly a case of not wanting to lose all those hardware rental fees. They were willing to start down that road just a bit with one platform but then said, "No more."

That is my guess also, the one thing Dish does not want to give up is also one of the main reasons why people leave Dish ( based on postings here).

 

[NashGuy]

It has been estimated DirecTV has between 11- 13 million Sat Subs, then another 2 million for streaming and Uverse, tough to get real numbers since they were spun off.

Given the quarterly history over the past few years of what used to be called "AT&T's premium TV services," i.e. what are now DirecTV, DirecTV Stream and Uverse TV, as well as the overall results of the cable TV industry since AT&T stopped reporting those results as of 2Q 21, I have no reason to think that the total number of subs among those three services has done anything other than continue to decline. The last number we got from AT&T as of 6/30/21 was 15.412 million total subs. They lost 0.473 million subs that quarter, making it actually their BEST quarter since 4Q 18! Charitably assuming they lost, on average, that same number of subs for the next 4 quarters, that would put DTV's total number at the end of next month at 13.52 million. Admittedly, that's a total guess, but given all the above, I'd peg that as a best-case scenario for them.

I'd say that DTV Stream and Uverse TV together now account for at least 3.5 million as the former service seems to be picking up traction in recent months thanks to more advertising, offering increased value for the money (e.g. free unlimited cloud DVR, extending DVR retention from 3 to 9 months, etc.), and being the only streaming cable TV service to offer the Bally Sports RSNs.

So I'd guess that the DTV satellite service has, at most, about 10 million subs now, with that that figure dwindling every quarter. Anecdotal evidence on this and other forums tells me that we're seeing increased migration of satellite subs over to DTV Stream in order to save money. And that's on top of all the others who keep leaving DTV completely.

We might see DTV satellite further decline from my estimated 10 million at the end of 2Q 22 to, say, 9 million at the end of 4Q, just as their final NFL Sunday Ticket season draws to a close. And then I expect defections to really pick up the following year, as all those out-of-market NFL die-hards have zero reason to stay with DTV. So instead of losing another 2 million satellite TV subs in 2023 (about the pace I'm assuming it's losing this year), I'd expect it to drop maybe 3 million. That would put my DTV satellite subscriber projection for year-end 2023 at just 6 million subs. Yowza.

 

[Bruce]

So I'd guess that the DTV satellite service has, at most, about 10 million subs now, with that that figure dwindling every quarter.

That is my guess.

Anecdotal evidence on this and other forums tells me that we're seeing increased migration of satellite subs over to DTV Stream in order to save money. And that's on top of all the others who keep leaving DTV completely.

The only reason I can see people going to DTV Stream is because of the RSNs and I do not believe they charge extra for it, unlike DTV Satellite which does.

If they do not care for the RSN, both YTTV and Hulu Live is a much better bargain.

We might see DTV satellite further decline from my estimated 10 million at the end of 2Q 22 to, say, 9 million at the end of 4Q, just as their final NFL Sunday Ticket season draws to a close. And then I expect defections to really pick up the following year, as all those out-of-market NFL die-hards have zero reason to stay with DTV. So instead of losing another 2 million satellite TV subs in 2023 (about the pace I'm assuming it's losing this year), I'd expect it to drop maybe 3 million. That would put my DTV satellite subscriber projection for year-end 2023 at just 6 million subs. Yowza.

And that is why they are not developing new equipment, like I said they are only spending enough to keep the lights on and waiting for the day they can sell or merge.

I also wonder, what is the number of subs before they are no longer profitable.

And again, at least Dish is putting out new equipment and trying to hold on to it’s subscribers, trying other things like Cell Phones and hopefully Home Internet, AT&T seems content in allowing the Sat Side of DirecTV to just fade away.

 

[drwatson618]

Sounds like most of your argument can be boiled down to this. And you're right, if they've already engineered their Sling app to work on Apple TV, Roku, Android TV, Xbox, Samsung TV, LG TV, etc. (in addition to Fire TV), why can't they port their Dish Anywhere to those same platforms too? I think it's mainly a case of not wanting to lose all those hardware rental fees. They were willing to start down that road just a bit with one platform but then said, "No more."

The Dish Anywhere app is available on Android TV. But yes, I agree they need to make it available on more devices. I left a few years ago but came back. When I left, the person trying to convince me to stay tried to tell me I could use it on Roku devices, which I knew was wrong.

 

[NashGuy]

That is my guess.

The only reason I can see people going to DTV Stream is because of the RSNs and I do not believe they charge extra for it, unlike DTV Satellite which does.

If they do not care for the RSN, both YTTV and Hulu Live is a much better bargain.

And that is why they are not developing new equipment, like I said they are only spending enough to keep the lights on and waiting for the day they can sell or merge.

I also wonder, what is the number of subs before they are no longer profitable.

And again, at least Dish is putting out new equipment and trying to hold on to it’s subscribers, trying other things like Cell Phones and hopefully Home Internet, AT&T seems content in allowing the Sat Side of DirecTV to just fade away.

Well, RSNs aren't the only reason why one might switch from DTV sat to DTV Stream. The latter has the same channel packages with (nearly) all the same channels and same channel numbers. And they offer their own custom streaming box with full-featured remote for an experience that's reasonably familiar to folks coming from a DTV Genie receiver, all at a lower price (assuming you don't get a substantial discount to remain on DTV satellite, which some customers do). So it makes for a very natural transition for DTV sat customers. (A bit less so for Uverse TV customers but, in most regards, still an upgrade.)

All that said, yeah, if you don't need RSNs, most folks would find YTTV at $65 or Hulu Live with Disney Bundle for $70 to be a better overall value than DTVS's Entertainment at $70 or Choice at $90. And yes, Choice and up include the RSNs with no extra RSN add-on fee like the sat service has.

As for "How many subs until they're no longer profitable?" -- well, the critical number there is going to be their *total* sub count across all three services, not just on sat. So I think they'd be able to continue making a go of it on their own for a few more years anyhow, maybe even the rest of this decade. But clearly, both DTV and Dish would enjoy better profit margins via reduced competition and costs if they merged, and the sooner, the better. I think it's a foregone conclusion that a deal will eventually be struck. Only questions are what the terms will be and how soon until the government allows it.

 

[mwdxer1]

This is exactly what I was going to suggest to Bruce. Dish doesn't charge you anything extra to use their Dish Anywhere app on as many different TVs/devices as you want, do they? I imagine they just place a limit on the number of streams that they will serve at the same time to those devices. But that doesn't sound like it would be an issue for Bruce.

Dish Anywhere is fantastic. You cannot stream live TV with it, at least in my case using the old vip211k receiver. But for On Demand it is great!

 

[dishdude]

Dish Anywhere is fantastic. You cannot stream live TV with it, at least in my case using the old vip211k receiver. But for On Demand it is great!

It'll let you stream some live channels just like Sling. The guide will let you sort by live stream.

 

[HipKat]

One-I really hate the Firestick

Can I ask what you hate about them?

 

[MikeD-C05]

All the traditional providers lost subs in the first quarter, Comcast with the biggest drop at -512,000.

The only gains for Live TV was Hulu Live and You Tube TV.

All the streaming services gained also, even Netflix would of gained 500,000 expect for the loss of Russia subs ( -700,000)

While they need to hold onto the subscribers they have, Dish need to innovate to attract new subs, be it smaller packages or figure out a way to get rid of some of the fees.

I have posted this before, I would have Dish except I refuse to pay those extra fees.

I have 11 rooms with TVs, only one gets all day use, the rest a little to none, but I need access for when I have guests or for other reasons.

For example, the Living Room it is always on, so I can see paying for a box, the outdoor theater is only on Live TV in the morning, watching CNN while I am on the Life Cycle for 2 hours, at night, always watching a streaming service like Netflix Paramount, Vudu, etc.

The TVs in my bedroom and Kitchen, never except for noise in my bedroom when I was tossing my wife’s stuff a few weeks ago.

The rest are my kid’s former rooms and guest rooms.

Why should I have to pay that extra fee when they do not get used that much, the only time lately one of the other rooms got used is when my Step-Father was here for 3 days after my wife’s passing, all he watched was the NCAA Basketball Tournament.

What Dish needs to do is maybe combine Sling TV with Dish at no extra cost, I would have a Hopper in my living room, but when I am outside, I can watch CNN via Sling, or when I have guests (Family is coming here for Thanksgiving / Wife’s Memorial ) they would have access.

By the way, Charter and Comcast already does this, you can access any of the channels you subscribe to via their apps at no extra charge, you no longer need to even rent a box.

It has been estimated DirecTV has between 11- 13 million Sat Subs, then another 2 million for streaming and Uverse, tough to get real numbers since they were spun off.

You need to just go with Sling Tv period and a tv antenna. You can add a Amazon firestick to the tvs or use the Roku and get Sling on all the houses in your house. Depending on what you sub to you can get a certain number of streams. Like the blue pack 3 streams at a time or orange pack 1 stream at a time . I use blue pack and total tv pack and I only pay about $56.00 a month before tax. For my wife and I this is more than what we had with DISH flex pack .

 

[Bruce]

You need to just go with Sling Tv period and a tv antenna. You can add a Amazon firestick to the tvs or use the Roku and get Sling on all the houses in your house. Depending on what you sub to you can get a certain number of streams. Like the blue pack 3 streams at a time or orange pack 1 stream at a time . I use blue pack and total tv pack and I only pay about $56.00 a month before tax. For my wife and I this is more than what we had with DISH flex pack .

I have YTTV now, comes with 5 streams, switching to Hulu Live since it is packaged with unlimited DVR, Disney+ and ESPN+ for $75.99, comes with 3 Streams, the biggest plus is the unlimited streams for $9.99, I will add that when my family is here for Thanksgiving/Wife’s Memorial and then cancel it when they leave.