Dish has had net sub losses in the past and quickly rebounded. Dish will have more very strong quarters in the future
DISH Network Reports Fourth Quarter and Year End 2010 Financial Results
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I fail to see the connection. I don't see any evidence relating net sub losses and lack of sports packages
But yet the claim has always been made that Dish focuses on the more lower income end customers when compared to Direct.
As a D* subscriber I would not expect u to understand so I will use a simple analogy...once upon atime there were 2 satellite companies..one would spend billions on sports packages to take high spending customers away from cable companies.. the other company concentrated on rural customers and provided more locals and movie channels (these are MUCH cheaper than sports channels). One Day the owner of the second company was very upset that the FOX sports company was trying to screw him over with a large price increase. Rather than bending over and accept it (like company # 1) he figured out a plan that would lose minimal customers and possibly increase profits. he knew if he held out long enough the price would go down..he also realized that since fewer customers would be installed during this troublesome period that he could keep more revenue for himself rather than spending it on expensive new installs. He also realized this would be a short term gain and would not be sustainable on a longterm basis. But the additional longterm profit gained by keeping sports costs reasonable would mitigate any damages.. Whatever happened to "The other company".?.One day COMCAST outbid them for the NFL sunday ticket and they ended up fileing chapter 7 bankruptcy because they lost all there sports customers to cable
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yaz96 said:
Like the one where Charlie says something like "are you tired of paying for channels you don't watch, like those commercial channels?". I laugh every time. All the CSRs look very "American" in those ads.
Nothing like 24 hours of buttery "turn the tub around", or Axe, or the others that keep getting added. Lol
First, thanks for being patronizing. I always look forward to condescension.
Second, your nice little story still failed to provide any evidence of any correlation. I don't see evidence of Dish subs leaving to another provider due to sports. The net losses don't even match the number of new subs that signed up with sports packages.
Third, one of hypothesis/speculations being presented in this thread as to why they have lost subs is that they got rid of those that are not as economical, which certainly are not sports package subs. It seems interesting that those low paying subs would go somewhere else to pay for expensive sports packages
subscribers always leave (its called churn) but since E* did not sign up as many new customers as they normally would its safe to assume that "sports" played a roll. As far people leaveing because of sports? Too many variables to really tell unless thay called in and said so
I left due to sports, and I know of at least 30 other posts in this forum of other people whom did. Also have you seen me complain once sense I moved to D* like how I did here about the lack of sports programming.. Nope and I was the most vocal about it! I predicted what is happening now.... At the time, everyone chalked it up to "crazy bob" Guess I'm not so crazy now.
I think sports played a hand in it as well as the disputes. It wasn't hard to see this train wreck. I'm still sceptical as I haven't seen the signs that show's that E* wants to seriously fix things. I also think that people are staying away due to the reputation that dish network have now given them self's with the lack of sports programming in hd and disputes. I know I wont be coming back any time soon. Also, when you see what D* has done with their equipment, and vod, that plays a role. The only thing that sucks about the whole situation is the fact that D* gains subs because they are the better provider (debatable, but sub counts show who the better provider is as D* has more subs.) . That gives D* a sense of false allurement as they havent done anything to add those subs. Those subs defected due to charlies mistake. That's going to hurt D* in the long run, especially because they are not launching national HD to keep those subs as they feel secure due to charlies mistake. Whom ever becomes the first provider of all HD will be the provider of the future as well the HD Leader on many fronts.
I think sports played a hand in it as well as the disputes. It wasn't hard to see this train wreck. I'm still sceptical as I haven't seen the signs that show's that E* wants to seriously fix things. I also think that people are staying away due to the reputation that dish network have now given them self's with the lack of sports programming in hd and disputes. I know I wont be coming back any time soon. Also, when you see what D* has done with their equipment, and vod, that plays a role. The only thing that sucks about the whole situation is the fact that D* gains subs because they are the better provider (debatable, but sub counts show who the better provider is as D* has more subs.) . That gives D* a sense of false allurement as they havent done anything to add those subs. Those subs defected due to charlies mistake. That's going to hurt D* in the long run, especially because they are not launching national HD to keep those subs as they feel secure due to charlies mistake. Whom ever becomes the first provider of all HD will be the provider of the future as well the HD Leader on many fronts.
well if u take a deep look at the historical numbers It wasn't unusual for D* to lose more customers than E* would Gain in gross adds. The key was E* was able to retain customers better than D*. Since D* went to the 2 year contract extention(s) more people are staying longer thus D* subscriber numbers are surging. As long as E* makes more money than D* i do not see a train wreck
Train wreck or not is all in your perception of what the numbers say. Train wreck was indeed predicted by many her during the 4th quarter for many reasons, not the least was the Fox fiasco. I know of at least a dozen subs that jumped ship totally because of losing the RSN's plus the lack of 24/7 RSN HD availability. Sometimes I think we forget just how huge an impact sports plays. Go to a sports bar during the college or NFL season. Lots of passion there.
yeah I find those funny too. Why pay for channels you dont watch? Like Shopping channels and you're a guy? hmmm.....they're still in all the packages. I guess Charlie means you can lock out those shopping channels if you're a guy
Here's some behind the scenes info as to why Dish may be more profitable and a little conspiracy theory (for the tinfoil hat wearing people) as to why DTV is doing so well.
First - Dish profits.
Behind the scenes Dish has been on a witch hunt toward retailers who sign up customers who have been, or are active Dish customers, as new customers just to give them the new promotion or hardware for free again. Because it does take more than 3 years today to break even on a new subscriber, Dish does not want to pay twice for the same customer.
Over the past year and a half Dish has charged back retailers MILLIONS of dollars in commissions for these "fraud" accounts, all the while still collecting the monthly subscriptions from these same customers. Most of the retailers Dish just terminated which means they now get to keep the monthly residuals they were paying out. This is not a small number. Trust me when I say that this WILL add to the bottom line. Also Dish is doing everything it can to stop customers from just signing up again as new, so in the long run their SAC will go down.
Second - tinfoil hat theory
This part is fact. DTV has a lower credit criteria than Dish. Dish only approves around 40% of new customers ran. Most retailers are "dual" or sell both. These retailers will take their 6 out of 10 turn downs from dish, run them through DTV, and get 4-5 of those to approve.
So.................................... lets think about that for a second.
For the past 2 quarters we have seen less "high celebrity profile" commercials coming from DTV and in my market just less advertising in general as compared to past quarters.
What if DTV just decided to let Dish and their retailers do all the marketing, lower the credit score criteria, and instruct the "dual" retailers to just run their turn downs through DTV? HMMMMM.......................... DTV could increase sales by 30-40% without spending a dime in marketing. Seems like a great business plan to me.
Just my $.02
First - Dish profits.
Behind the scenes Dish has been on a witch hunt toward retailers who sign up customers who have been, or are active Dish customers, as new customers just to give them the new promotion or hardware for free again. Because it does take more than 3 years today to break even on a new subscriber, Dish does not want to pay twice for the same customer.
Over the past year and a half Dish has charged back retailers MILLIONS of dollars in commissions for these "fraud" accounts, all the while still collecting the monthly subscriptions from these same customers. Most of the retailers Dish just terminated which means they now get to keep the monthly residuals they were paying out. This is not a small number. Trust me when I say that this WILL add to the bottom line. Also Dish is doing everything it can to stop customers from just signing up again as new, so in the long run their SAC will go down.
Second - tinfoil hat theory
This part is fact. DTV has a lower credit criteria than Dish. Dish only approves around 40% of new customers ran. Most retailers are "dual" or sell both. These retailers will take their 6 out of 10 turn downs from dish, run them through DTV, and get 4-5 of those to approve.
So.................................... lets think about that for a second.
For the past 2 quarters we have seen less "high celebrity profile" commercials coming from DTV and in my market just less advertising in general as compared to past quarters.
What if DTV just decided to let Dish and their retailers do all the marketing, lower the credit score criteria, and instruct the "dual" retailers to just run their turn downs through DTV? HMMMMM.......................... DTV could increase sales by 30-40% without spending a dime in marketing. Seems like a great business plan to me.
Just my $.02
Good point. I know that I'd be looking for a way out of my contract if one or both of my RSNs got dropped by Dish. If Dish had been missing MASN, I wouldn't have signed up in the first place.
Well, he says no provider can offer you only the channels you want. I guess it depends on how you "read" the commercial as to whether he's saying "You're going to get some sports and some shopping no matter what, but we offer you as much choice as we can within the framework of channels insisting on having different types of programming packaged together", or whether you think he was framing it as saying you could choose between sports or shopping centric packages. Personally, I understood it to mean that that you're going to get some of each no matter what, but it does seem a little open-ended. There's only so much clarity and detail one can squeeze into a 30 second ad spot.
Do I know u? Your words echo like someone I know very well. Without going into a lot of details these couple of paragraphs sounds like our office to the tee.
Their system (E*) should be smart enough to catch anything funny upfront, retailers are the unsuspecting victims in this fiasco. D* at least will stop you from going any further.
We used to do 1 D* to every 5 E*, it is just the opposite now & for many of the reasons you mention above. I personally don't care as long as the money is rolling in from somewhere.
"This part is fact. DTV has a lower credit criteria than Dish. Dish only approves around 40% of new customers ran. Most retailers are "dual" or sell both. These retailers will take their 6 out of 10 turn downs from dish, run them through DTV, and get 4-5 of those to approve."
Fits right in with Dish not going after subscribers, rather going after profitable subscribers...
Fits right in with Dish not going after subscribers, rather going after profitable subscribers...
Yes, but if Dish wants profitable subscribers, then why drop the HD distants? People who buy HD distants are among the most profitable of customers. They are now leaving in droves. These are people who have HD, which is already highly profitable, and often have multiple accounts, one at home, one in the RV, and one in each vacation home.
Direct TV. OK. Dish Network OK. Neither Company is going to sink or swim. These conversations are getting redundant, redundant, redundant
But all these folks saying how things should be done by D* or E* can certainly do better than the current management, right ? Maybe these two companies might start making a profit...
Dish Network with the 4 room setup I have right now puts them at the TOP of the High end of the industry.
Dish is the most expensive option currently in my area for my 4 room system.
So to claim that dish is at the lower side of the Industry is by not at all true.
What?? Really!!
No I don't think so!
I know lots of people that Tried to get Directv service, and because of their credit history subpar, D* wanted them to Pay a $300 deposit
with Start up costs Totaling excess of $500.
Dish Accepted them without a Hitch.
Sorry to claim fact that Dish has is stricter then D* is BS! I know atleast 4 people including my Sister that D* would not except and Dish took right in.
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