Dish Network clobbers Pansat

[rv1pop]

Seems to me that should be illegal for them to even rule that another business doesn't have a right to make a receiver. They have already started on OTA in my state they are already airing commercials warning people about the attempts of special self interests groups trying to take away OTA or charge for services. When I saw some of the decoders for Digital OTA being offerend by certain companies I knew it was only a matter of time. Some of these Digital boxes was being offered with a card slot. What's that tell you?

Our nation has already seen what the huge corporate monoply has done for our banking system. Suppose when is our government going to step in and say enough is enough?

Think of it this way, If they can stop Panarex from building FTA receivers it will be only a matter of time before He can go after any FTA receiver MFG that allows any kind of software updates. Seriously speaking He could go after any company that builds an FTA receiver. Panarex is only the first..wait and see...

True enough.... But did you notice Government health care now?? The news here (local hospital) is that it is to be run by the IRS. The compassion of the IRS and the efficiancy of the Postal system.

And the FCC has supposedly been ordered to sell off ALL spectrum to the highest bidder. My congressman is fighting against that.

 

[Bill_KY]

Using this twisted logic...The next group they will sue, are Cable and Direct Tv subscribers because they are not Dish Network subscribers....and because of it are depriving Dish of money.

 

[freezy]

The problem lies in that some FTA receiver manufactures have sold (or have pretended to sell) their source code to (wink wink) autonomous outside programmers who were able to modify the code to rip off encrypted signal. Why would they do that?

Biggest mistakes they made: programmers lived and worked in the USA, anti-cloning BIN files and ceasing to support older models tied manufactures directly to pirate programmers.

The best hope for North American FTA is if more European-like free programming were available. Unfortunately big business doesn't want that and we just gave them the means to keep it from ever happening. Now that corporations and special interest are able to contribute directly to political campaigns our little emails to our elected representatives are guaranteed to fall on deaf ears.

 

[trinidex]

DISH Network made a deal to stop the sale of four different models of Pansat receivers; the 150, 250, 3500 and the 9200HD.

OUTRAGEOUS!

My 3500SD says on the box:

CONAX CAS EMBEDDED - I can buy cards and watch stuff with that, what's the problem Charlie!?

Further...DVB-Sx is a standard, how the heck do they stop a manufacturer making DVB compliant kit?

Lunacy in modern day America!

 

[trinidex]

Am I missing something, this story doesn't make sense, I read the report, what do they mean "claiming that Panarex sold dishes from a South Korean manufacturer, Global Technologies Inc., that were ready for software programs"

And...

"The court ordered Panarex to forfeit its inventory of satellite dishes"

Erm...okay Mr. Lawyer...here have my satellite dishes !

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

The problem lies in that some FTA receiver manufactures have sold (or have pretended to sell) their source code to (wink wink) autonomous outside programmers who were able to modify the code to rip off encrypted signal. Why would they do that?

Thats what a lot of people in this thread are not getting. From my understanding there was some code in there by the maker that shipped from the factory... in addition I have heard that the flavor of Turbo 8PSK that some boxes shipped with were using a special version licensed only for DISH Network's use. By including that version installed by default might have been a big part of the entire case. There was no other reason for that part to be in there other then to tune Dish or Bell signals. (ie it wasn't used to receive regular FTA broadcasts.)

I have not seen any evidence or heard any testimony from this case myself, but have talked to people who have been involved in some way and this is the feedback I am getting (if I put the bits and pieces together correctly.)

Now I have heard that Pansat is still in business and is working on some new receivers which do not contain the hardware or software that could be used to steal signals, so these boxes will really be true FTA receivers.

I do hope this is true.

I am sure Mike Kohl will say something about it on sat talk on Friday night.

 

[trinidex]

From my understanding there was some code in there by the maker that shipped from the factory... in addition I have heard that the flavor of Turbo 8PSK that some boxes shipped with were using a special version licensed only for DISH Network's use.

Okay, well yes, that makes sense.


If you pre-disposed your FTA box to be compatible with Charlie's licensed signal and encryption system then it's a big no-no.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

If you pre-disposed your FTA box to be compatible with Charlie's licensed signal and encryption system then it's a big no-no.

That's what I think the issue is here. I don't think Charlie is against true FTA... after all thats how he got the start in the business.

Besides one of the biggest FTA brands over in Europe is made by who??? Yup... Echostar.

 

[stone1150]

Every one here is missing the boat and saying something is true when it is not. Panerex is done not Pansat. Panerex was simply a distributor and importer of Pansat brand receivers.

As far as the nagra code that was supposedly in the factory bin, that is total fabrication on Charlies part and I can prove it. What happens when you flash a chip? It fets programmed. Then if you flash it again what happens? It gets reprogrammed however some of the old code will srill be left in bits and pieces. Just like a hard drive can't be totally erased, the chip acts the same way. So Charlie demanded through the courts that he wanted old chips of units that came in for repair, his forensic computer geeks read a chip that did have pirate code on it but was flashed back to factory before repair. WALA! There is bits and pieces of Nagra code on the tsop! Then Charlie simply says that "They have copyrighted code in the factory bins!" That is the long and the short of it. Pansat should live to fight another day. Panerex however will not. Have a great day!

 

[B.J.]

Thats what a lot of people in this thread are not getting. From my understanding there was some code in there by the maker that shipped from the factory... in addition I have heard that the flavor of Turbo 8PSK that some boxes shipped with were using a special version licensed only for DISH Network's use. By including that version installed by default might have been a big part of the entire case. There was no other reason for that part to be in there other then to tune Dish or Bell signals. (ie it wasn't used to receive regular FTA broadcasts.)

.....

? Regular FTA broadcasts ? FTA is FTA, doesn't matter if it's DVB, DVB-S2, turbo 8PSK, DSS, or any other mode. There is nothing wrong with tuning FTA if it happens to be on DN transponders. The turbo-8PSK has nothing to do with encryption, so I really don't understand why that should be a factor here at all.

I'm also surprised relative to the comment about some boxes being shipped with Turbo 8PSK. I was under the (perhaps false) impression that NONE of the FTA receivers shipped with Turbo 8PSK capability, except for the Genpix. I thought that all the STBs couldn't do Turbo 8PSK, unless some 3rd party tuner was added. Ie I didn't think that the receiver manufacturers sold anything that could do Turbo 8PSK or Turbo QPSK. I thought that was all sold by 3rd party people, and if that's the case I'd think that DN's argument would be with the people that sell those accessory tuners, and I really find it hard to beleive that they'd have any software that would have come from DN anyway, since from looking at the pictures, they look like pretty much non-professional tuners.

Now on the other hand, I'm not at all surprised that receivers would have code in the firmware that could aid in bypassing the encryption. I seem to remember seeing stuff in my Coolsat 8100 that would sometimes pop up when the receiver got confused, ie before it would require a reboot, it would pop into screens sometimes that seemed to be related to pirate activity. Also, every time a new factory firmware would come out, it was usually at the same time that you'd see pirate firmware popping up with the same features. I really had the impression that the STB manufacturers hired programmers who were the same guys who programmed the pirate software, and I'm guessing that these programmers put some stuff in there to make the pirate stuff easier to incorporate. It's possible the manufacturers don't even know it's there, although I'm sure that they know that they're selling a box that can be modified.

But anyway, I don't have a problem with DN going after people selling hardware/software that is specifically bypassing their encryption, but I'm a bit disturbed if they are trying to go after people selling hardware/software that is used to tune Turbo 8PSK, because that has nothing to do with encryption, and if they leave things FTA on their transponders, in my opinion, it is fair game.

 

[freezy]

We all know what the lawyer meant by "dishes". He or the reporter meant receivers. His nomenclature was wrong but I guarantee it's not wrong on the complaint.

The "able to" thing really bothers me. A chunk of iron ore is "able to" to be fashioned into a knife or a gun which then could be used in a crime. However if you knowingly facilitated an entity that you knew would commit crime with the product you most definitely are liable.

 

[goaliebob99]

That's what I think the issue is here. I don't think Charlie is against true FTA... after all thats how he got the start in the business.

Besides one of the biggest FTA brands over in Europe is made by who??? Yup... Echostar.

Why doesn't echostar make a Dream box here for the USA to compete with the AZ box.

 

[Ironsides]

Why doesn't echostar make a Dream box here for the USA to compete with the AZ box.

Echostar make it's own brand of receivers they have nothing to do with Dream Mulitmedia unless they've bought that company recently. Dream Multimedia is or was based in Germany, they built both satellite an cable receivers and a few other goodies. The boxes you see coming out of China are mostly clones and have cloned Mac Addresses. Dream Mulitmedia did have a law suit going on to stop that.

Dreambox can compete with the Azbox but here in the states people are more used to plug and play. They're not willing to learn Linux enough to use the Dreambox nor are they willing to spend the extra money one costs. You can buy the Azbox much cheaper here, although you can buy the cloned Dreamboxes for about the same price...But you get what you pay for...a cloned box. Nothing wrong with them but some have really cheap power supplies and tuners.

 

[goaliebob99]

Echostar make it's own brand of receivers they have nothing to do with Dream Mulitmedia unless they've bought that company recently. Dream Multimedia is or was based in Germany, the built both satellite can cable receivers and a few other goodies. The boxes you see coming out of China are mostly clones and have cloned Mac Addresses. Dream Mulitmedia did have a law suit going to stop that.

Dreambox can compete with the Azbox but here in the states people are more used to plug and play. They're not willing to learn Linux enough to use the Dreambox nor are they willing to spend the extra money one costs.

I wasn't talking about the dreambox brand, I was saying why doesnt echostar make their OWN version of a receiver that's competes against the az box. You know the type of box that everyone dreams about! 422, 420 s2, ect, iptv.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

Because the FTA market here in the US for the most part is not profitable.

Sure we have out hobbiests.. but not a big commercial market.

 

[ZetaMale]

DishmanDan-it will stop when he controls ALL satellite-delivered tv programming. Then he can go after the OTA stuff.
In short, 'Might makes right' pretty much sums up this entire episode.

I guess we'll be seeing EchoStar in an antitrust suit someday. Paybacks are a you-no-what.

 

[McGuyver]

I was thinking that may be why Pansat's latest model TS-1000 is only a terrestrial tuner box. Bet they go out of business or into the dry cleaning trade

 

[toucan-man]

... Bet they go out of business or into the dry cleaning trade

So they've been taken to the cleaners, huh?

 

[Dishman Dan]

... May I offer another analogy....lets say you take a new car and cut out the seatbelts, disable the air bags and have an accident. In this accident you are seriously injured as a result of the lack of safety features. Is this the manufacturers fault because YOU modified it?

Another car analogy...

Look at Ford especially with the Mustangs and their performance upgrades. It just gets down to selling more units for the manufacturer. Ford wants to sell more cars and so does a receiver manufacturer want to sell more units. The Mustang is easily upgraded by 3rd party software and aftermarket parts/accessories as is many receivers. Yes if Ford did not make the units upgradable for legal use the illegal use would almost be nonexistant and the same is to be said about receivers. But when there is illegal use and they catch the owner, it is the owner who is in trouble not Ford the manufacturer. When there is a "hot spot" where everyone goes to (like street racing or Dish Network) it is often shut down (Boy I sure wish Dish was shut down!) or changes made to deter the activity. No matter how much money he has, Charlie cannot go door to door just like a cop cannot pull over every car. So Charlie did make changes like Nagravision 3 to deter and pretty much stopped the pirates. Favorite "drag areas" are often restricted with speed limits or other means just like encryption on Dish network to hopefully stop and/or discourage the activity. Ford is not held responsible for street racing or other illegal activity so why are receiver manufacturers responsible for illegal use?? The receiver manufacturers as well as Ford are most likely aware of their illegal use but it sure did sell more receivers and it does sell cars! I am sure Ford could make their vehicles "hacker proof" if they really wanted to! I do have to admit with the internet the receiver hacking sure was exploited! Maybe I should of used Ford pickups in this analogy and their "off road'" use and all the places they go where they should not be! The main idea here is that Ford the manufacturer is not held liable for or shut down for illegal use of their products so why are so many receiver companies being held liable???

Sadly many people have lost their lives in cars especially with performance modifications but I have never heard of a pirate loosing his life hacking his receiver!!! This shows the mighty dollar is more valuable... especially to Charlie!!!...

 

[McGuyver]

Sort of like a smoker suing a tobacco company, wouldn't you think? Or a mother suing a gun manufacturer for her son shooting himself with a gun they made.

Charlie is just being an A??