Dish messing with Voom, All are now HD-Lite 1280x1080i: Discuss this issue HERE!

[Tom Bombadil]

Another factor that plays into this is that there are a lot of HDTVs that don't handle 720p well. There was a report in The Perfect Vision a few months back, that claimed several HDTVs that have a native resolution of 1080i, are actually not applying a complex upscale/conversion to 720p in order to display it in 1080i. Instead, they are simply throwing away every 4th line and then doubling it. Effectively reducing a 720p image to a 540p image and then interlacing it to 1080i.

This method is far cheaper to employ as the conversion can be done very quickly, with lower cost processing chips.

I'm almost certain that one of the items tested was a Dish HD receiver and that it was shown that this is exactly what was happening in the receiver when one had it set to output at 1080i. I'll try to find this again.

Now if Dish knows this, then they know they would be using a lot of bandwidth to broadcast in 720p that would in turn then be stripped out by their own receivers in a large number of homes. Thus they might think it would be ridiculous to go down that path.

 

[goaliebob99]

Tom that is actually intersting.. if you find that artical be sure to post it as I wouldnt mind reading it

 

[Tom Bombadil]

Okay, let me amend my last post.

I haven't found the article yet, but did find some of the discussion that took place on another forum. I got things backward.

What is happening is that many HD receivers and TVs that are set to 720p, are taking 1080i material, converting that to 540p, and then upconvert it to 720p. Thus people with 720p sets, which are quite common in the DLP and LCD RP models, are really watching a form of 540p when they view a channel that is broadcast in 1080i.

There are some hints that the opposite is happening for 1080i sets, as I stated above, but there is less evidence of it.

Here is an edited summary of the original article:

" When is 720p not 720p?

Tom Norton, in his coverage of the Home Entertainment expo, brought something up that I was unaware of.

720p displays show native 720p signals directly, of course. They also upconvert SD signals (like DVD) up to 720p for display. And 720p displays must convert incoming 1080i signals to 720p before they can be displayed. No surprise there, this makes sense. But, Silicon Optix claims that most manufacturers do the 1080i conversion just by taking one 540 line field from each 1080i frame (which is composed of two 540 line fields) and scaling that one field up to 720p, ignoring the other field. Reason being, it takes a lot less processing power to do this than to convert the image to 1080p and scale that, which would use all the information in the original signal to derive the 720p signal. If you have a display like this, it means that you’re watching 540 lines of resolution upconverted to 720p. This is not HD, just like watching a DVD upconverted to 720p is not HD. Sure, you’ll get the full width of the 1080i resolution, but you’re only getting half the height. While this is better than DVD, it’s not HD in my mind. (Aside: Tom Norton mentions this in his review of the Screenplay 777 projector.)"

And here is a long thread on the topic from AVSForum. Good luck in following it. It does cast some doubt on the processing quality within the 811 and 942 receivers.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=535810&highlight=540p+dish

 

[Gary Murrell]

my concern with speaking of 720p conversion comes from seeing Bell Expressvu's implementation, they convert some 1080i HD channels from 1080i to 720p, then of course I am converting from 720p back to 1080i to my display
they look excellent, no where near the horrid picture quality of these current form of Voom at 1280x1080i
like I said 720p would be the ONLY possible acceptance by me if Dish were to convert and not send native(which should be the case) and then I would have to see it with my eyes on my display to know if it is acceptable

-Gary

 

[Gary Murrell]

You guys should all give Scott some money and head over to the Pub forum, there is some great HD info over there

I am still checking these channels very often and report if there are any changes

-Gary

 

[Purogamer]

You guys aren't going to be happy for a long time...you realize that right?

I feel bad for ya...

 

[BrettTRay]

Realize what?

 

[Reefer123]

I'll tell you one thing, I think they are going to give us our old resolution back and compress the Sh^% out of it. GuyTV and Rage are unwatchable today. Pixelating like I have never seen. I know these were not altered at all but something is going on.

 

[Drone35]

I've noticed this today too and even the audio is skipping and acting up! Checked signal and around 90!

 

[mdonnelly]

Well, it shows that they're doing SOMETHING. It's wrong, but it's something.

 

[Tom Bombadil]

Mine have been acting up for nearly 3 days now. Occasional picture freezes and audio dropouts. I do believe they are testing some different things.

 

[Reefer123]

You know what I am going to call and DEMAND a refund for this month. Otherwise I am canceling the HD Pak and Voom. They are the ones that created this mess and I should NOT have to deal with their ineptitude. If you want to do tests, then do it on the 129 bird. I know a few will be upset at the 129 bird statement, but in all reality it was never made official by E* that the Voom channels were there.

 

[mcmcmc]

Dish refunded me for Voom this month just now

Just called them after adjusting my dish and no result in freezing picture on all voom channels. One good thing I went from 72 signal strength to 100. I wish they would actually add some new programming. They have been showing the exact same thing for almost a year since I first got the "Original Voom"

 

[Stargazer]

If you lease an HD receiver then you have to keep the HD pack or you must return the HD receiver(s) that you leased.

 

[RandallA]

If you lease an HD receiver then you have to keep the HD pack or you must return the HD receiver(s) that you leased.

After returning the HD receiver, will they allow you to add a SD receiver?

 

[dnepr5810]

"coolsat4000" problem conection with Dish? I need a code?!

 

[Reefer123]

nope that won't be a problem for me I own my HD receiver, anyway OTA HD is better than anything DISH is offering IMO.

 

[gdarwin]

Just called in my complaint about PQ on VOOM channels to E*. All VOOM channels are breaking up, freezing, and audio dropping out. The CSR verified that I had a good signal off 61.5 and had me check the local SD feed... Put me on hold. Came back and verified they are still having problems with the VOOM channels.

I did not get a credit, instead he asked me to call in when I noticed the problem fixed. At that time they would issue me a credit for time the service was out... Did not make an issue of it and thanked him for his time. At least one more complaint got logged...

 

[a2zvisa]

My email to E* about HD-Lite

I, in an indirect way, advertise for Dish Network when I have friends over for NFL Sunday Night Football on ESPN HD. My friends always have comments on how beautiful the game looks in HD. During commercials, we browse the other channels of the HD Pak and the VOOM collection. I always say, if any of them make the jump to HD, go with Dish Network because they are dedicated to the quality of the channels while trying to have the most HD programming.

 

[gdarwin]

I, in an indirect way, advertise for Dish Network when I have friends over for NFL Sunday Night Football on ESPN HD. My friends always have comments on how beautiful the game looks in HD. During commercials, we browse the other channels of the HD Pak and the VOOM collection. I always say, if any of them make the jump to HD, go with Dish Network because they are dedicated to the quality of the channels while trying to have the most HD programming.

Quality is gone tonight... I'm watching HD OTA tonight....