If there was ever a time to compare PQ between the two, this is a good one. WCCO, CBS in Minneapolis, OTA is no comparison, much better quality. Dish CBS, TNT and TBS all look pretty similar with artifacts, major loss of detail and lots of softness. As I flip between multiple games it's nice to have one channel that looks like HD rather than YouTube. I think this summer it is time to try cable again to see what the PQ is like.
Dish Locals vs OTA Locals - NCAA Picture Quality
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I can compare all 3 now, as my cable locals are unencrypted for internet users. Cox gets a fiber feed from the local stations. KOTV has 2 subchannels on the OTA feed in addition to the main CBS feed. I believe Dish gets them via fiber also. The OTA has a very slight edge and not by much over the Dish feed and Cox is slightly better than both Dish and the OTA feed. This is during the Robert Morris/Duke game, but I've noticed it during NFL games too.
After reading your post I checked with about the same results as I generally see. OTA has a very slight edge over the Sat signal. I am not seeing artifacts or any particular softness differently or at the most much differently to OTA. (EA for these tests Ct - I have not checked the locals in Tampa on the WA to compare)
This is on my 46" TV the larger one is packed to move it to Florida.
This is on my 46" TV the larger one is packed to move it to Florida.
OTA here is an obvious edge on Directv and Dish on the 65". On the 40" I wouldn't even bother with an antenna.
I've noticed the same thing. I watched a couple games on OTA CBS (picked up by Dish OTA), then switched to TBS and the picture quality DEFINITELY dropped.
At work, I have an HDTV at my desk hooked to cable, but can only get the locals in HD. I see compression on that one also.
I was also wondering if TBS, TNT, and Tru are all more "bit starved" than ESPN and other "big" HD programming.
At work, I have an HDTV at my desk hooked to cable, but can only get the locals in HD. I see compression on that one also.
I was also wondering if TBS, TNT, and Tru are all more "bit starved" than ESPN and other "big" HD programming.
It depends upon what DMA is involved. I have to say that in Los Angeles, it is still a wash. NO ONE but me can see the difference, and I viewed them moments ago via PIP, side by side, and Small and Big and one channel then swap to the other. only the most minimal of difference, and that was the color seemed just a tad more vibrant on OTA with Dish looking like .005% softer. I could tell the OTA, but only after several minutes when I could finally see the most minor of a difference.
It is sad that most of the people who suffer from LiL HD poor PQ are from smaller DMA's. That stinks. Those spotbeams are probably overloaded with channels that might even be service more than one DMA.
My theory is that Dish maintains high LIL HD PQ in the really big cities because if they were as bad as some have stated in other cities, Dish's CSR lines would be saturated with calls of complaints, so Dish sticks it to the smaller DMA's. IF anyone else can tell us, with authority, why Dish seems to make certain really big cities, at least Los Angeles gets near perfect HD LIL PQ, and other places get junk, it would be interesting to know. Mine is only a theory, but with an estimated 500,000 to 600,000 Dish subs in the LA area (claimed a Times article during the Fox News flap), it seems to make sense. You don't want any where near that many people causing a complete overwhelming of your CSR lines complaining of poor HD LIL PQ. I remember when a failure some years ago near 3AM PST that caused a complete shut down of Dish's CSR lines.
As for other, say "cable" channels looking a bit worse than usual. I would agree, but my THEORY is that Dish is tweeking in preparation of the big WA 8PSK change-over. I would anticipate that the PQ on those channels should improve a bit from what we see at the moment once all the tweaking is done, but not necessarily better than it was before very recently.
It is sad that most of the people who suffer from LiL HD poor PQ are from smaller DMA's. That stinks. Those spotbeams are probably overloaded with channels that might even be service more than one DMA.
My theory is that Dish maintains high LIL HD PQ in the really big cities because if they were as bad as some have stated in other cities, Dish's CSR lines would be saturated with calls of complaints, so Dish sticks it to the smaller DMA's. IF anyone else can tell us, with authority, why Dish seems to make certain really big cities, at least Los Angeles gets near perfect HD LIL PQ, and other places get junk, it would be interesting to know. Mine is only a theory, but with an estimated 500,000 to 600,000 Dish subs in the LA area (claimed a Times article during the Fox News flap), it seems to make sense. You don't want any where near that many people causing a complete overwhelming of your CSR lines complaining of poor HD LIL PQ. I remember when a failure some years ago near 3AM PST that caused a complete shut down of Dish's CSR lines.
As for other, say "cable" channels looking a bit worse than usual. I would agree, but my THEORY is that Dish is tweeking in preparation of the big WA 8PSK change-over. I would anticipate that the PQ on those channels should improve a bit from what we see at the moment once all the tweaking is done, but not necessarily better than it was before very recently.
I do not disagree with that as a partial reasoning, but I can say I have lived in the #42, #59 and #95 markets, and not once has satellite equaled OTA on a 50" or larger display. Thats Directv and Dish.
I'm in the Phoenix Az DMA and I have the OTA on my 55" with my hopper, and to me the picture looks pretty much identical. Some channels are better on dish, some better on OTA, but I have only noticed that difference when watching football. Fox is better for OTA, CBS and NBC are better with Dish.
We have had these threads over the years. I would say both for me in Ct and Fl, and what I see for posts it has remained the same over the years. There are few who really can (and some at least believe they can) see a definite difference with OTA usually being the better PQ, and then there are those few who see no difference at all. The majority always seems to be, that if you pay attention and really compare you may see a difference on some and none on others, and it even can change a little from time to time. But to the credit of DISH and Direct, most feel there just isn't that much if any real difference.
I do think there are some explanations. On the largest screens if there is a difference it will show up more. If you sit beyond what the eye can see as 1080I or 720P (as many to most do) you have much less chance of seeing any difference, but if you sit closer you may see a difference more often. Some channels have more sub channels than others and that will change the PQ of OTA. (For the worse) The Ct PBS had to drop a sub channel because they just could not squeeze enough bandwidth to make HD on the main channel reasonable.
What I have not seen for years now is blocking and rarely, very rarely do I see motion problems. Just as DishSubLa said at times I may see the colors are a little more vibrant OTA, though never on our CBS, sometimes on our NBC or FOX. (Ct) I have not looked as closely in Tampa, but simply watching TV I certainly do not see any real difference, but I do have till next week a smaller screen than in Ct.
I do think there are some explanations. On the largest screens if there is a difference it will show up more. If you sit beyond what the eye can see as 1080I or 720P (as many to most do) you have much less chance of seeing any difference, but if you sit closer you may see a difference more often. Some channels have more sub channels than others and that will change the PQ of OTA. (For the worse) The Ct PBS had to drop a sub channel because they just could not squeeze enough bandwidth to make HD on the main channel reasonable.
What I have not seen for years now is blocking and rarely, very rarely do I see motion problems. Just as DishSubLa said at times I may see the colors are a little more vibrant OTA, though never on our CBS, sometimes on our NBC or FOX. (Ct) I have not looked as closely in Tampa, but simply watching TV I certainly do not see any real difference, but I do have till next week a smaller screen than in Ct.
I don't think the Dish LiL quality varies as much from DMA to DMA, regardless of size. I think there is more variability in the OTA markets based on how many subchannels are squeezed into a single transmission. Larger markets like LA would potentially have more subchannels than a smaller market, thus the difference in PQ between OTA channel and Sat local might appear more equal.
That's not even remotely possible, unless something is wrong with your tuner. Cox gets its feed from OTA. Cox can be equal to OTA but never better.
Here in Austin there's no contest--even on my 32" 720p LCD I notice the difference. On the 57" and 82" DLP's the difference is blur no blur.
Sorry but YOU are wrong. Cox gets their feed from KOTV via fiber. I know this for a fact, as KOTV and KQCW took 2 lightning strikes an hour ago as tornadoes moved through Tulsa and they are off the air for OTA and Sat customers but Cox still has direct feed up.
