title
Look at title I was referring to the team thomas lawyer that is muddying things up as much as he can.
Look at title I was referring to the team thomas lawyer that is muddying things up as much as he can.
Dish Faces April 30 Deadline In TiVo Case
- Thread starter Kheldar
- Start date
- Latest activity Latest activity:
- Replies 154
- Views 21K
Hey, I don't feel any love in this thread... Seriously, Dish Network DVRs are not getting turned off (not very likely)...it's just a matter of how much $$$ Tivo is getting paid. Unfortunately for E*'s shareholders...way, way, way too much!!!
Seriously, Dish Network DVRs are not getting turned off (not very likely)...it's just a matter of how much $$$ Tivo is getting paid. Unfortunately for E*'s shareholders...way, way, way too much!!!
I'm just adding to the lively discussion.Look at title I was referring to the team thomas lawyer that is muddying things up as much as he can.
I don't like Tivo's crappy business model, but Thomas has been 99% correct in this case. Offhand, I STILL don't know why E* hasn't settled this case...should have done so years ago.
Answered the question
You may have answered your own question. TIVO's crappy biz model. Push them till they are so far buried in red ink that they are an easy take over target.
I'm just adding to the lively discussion.
You may have answered your own question. TIVO's crappy biz model. Push them till they are so far buried in red ink that they are an easy take over target.
What I don't understand is the Tivo patents covers a device for converting analog Television signals into separate MPEG-2 video and audio transport streams, storing these on a computer disk drive, then combining and playing back through a Television the resulting television program.
I would argue the ViP receivers are nothing like the DVRs they replace: With the ATSC switchover, there are no more (for practical purposes) analog TV stations, so therefore, no more AD conversion going on in the DVR. Strike one against Tivo.
For conventional Dish programming, the MPEG-2 conversion occurs at Dish, not in the device, so strike two. (Strike 2.1, ATSC broadcasts are MPEG-2, but again, there is no need to encode MPEG-2 in the DVR.) All the ViP DVRs store are pre-encoded data streams, no encoding necessary.
For HD programming, all of Dish's channels are MPEG-4, not MPEG-2 (a different encoding technology with different patents) so Tivo's patents concerning the storage and playback of MPEG-2 signals would not apply. Strike three. Those customers on the Eastern Arc are 100% MPEG-4, so they should not be affected by any shutoff of the enjoined DVR models. The ViP DVRs are not infringing on Tivo's patents named in the original lawsuit.
Of course, I'm sure Echostar's (it is Echostar, and not DishNetwork, right?) lawyers have gone through this already.
I would argue the ViP receivers are nothing like the DVRs they replace: With the ATSC switchover, there are no more (for practical purposes) analog TV stations, so therefore, no more AD conversion going on in the DVR. Strike one against Tivo.
For conventional Dish programming, the MPEG-2 conversion occurs at Dish, not in the device, so strike two. (Strike 2.1, ATSC broadcasts are MPEG-2, but again, there is no need to encode MPEG-2 in the DVR.) All the ViP DVRs store are pre-encoded data streams, no encoding necessary.
For HD programming, all of Dish's channels are MPEG-4, not MPEG-2 (a different encoding technology with different patents) so Tivo's patents concerning the storage and playback of MPEG-2 signals would not apply. Strike three. Those customers on the Eastern Arc are 100% MPEG-4, so they should not be affected by any shutoff of the enjoined DVR models. The ViP DVRs are not infringing on Tivo's patents named in the original lawsuit.
Of course, I'm sure Echostar's (it is Echostar, and not DishNetwork, right?) lawyers have gone through this already.
And actually, Tivo was so broad in their patent, that any television signal being broadcast and stored for later playback is covered. It specifically mentions MPEG, but does not differentiate between MPEG-1, MPEG-2, or any further MPEG standard that may be passed. My bad...
Good thing I'm not a lawyer, right?
However, the patent is based on using MPEG to store the AV data, so switching to something other than MPEG would circumvent that portion of the patent. Whether or not that would happen before Echostar buys Tivo is doubtful, however.
Good thing I'm not a lawyer, right?
However, the patent is based on using MPEG to store the AV data, so switching to something other than MPEG would circumvent that portion of the patent. Whether or not that would happen before Echostar buys Tivo is doubtful, however.
Last edited:
Don't I recall that TiVo tried to get the VIP boxes included in the lawsuit but were denied, because they were not in existence when it was filed?
If they were not includable during the trial why should they be considered as part of the judgement?
If they were not includable during the trial why should they be considered as part of the judgement?
Because TIVO wants them included? If I was in their position I would try also, doesn't make it right.
Except that the appellant court removed the hardware claims from the original verdict. So, the hardware is currently non infringing (until retried). I believe they said TiVo was free to pursue the hardware claims if they wanted, but they are no longer part of this case.
Stop lying. You know very well they don't. They also aren't included in the case, so even if they did, tivo would have to fight this all over again to try to get rid of the ViPs.
The 522 and 625 are the only 2 models that really are going to be an issue. 721, 921 and 942 models have been recalled and replaced with VIP series product.
There are a few 501, 508 and 510 receivers out in the field still, but its been a while since I ran accross one.
Like I said all along, Dish will either buy Tivo or pay the licensing. If Dish has to pay the licensing, there will be a slow migration to an all VIP platform!
I hate to agree with Thomas, but... Judge Folsom is so biased against Dish, his writings look to me as though he's totally and completely insane. And 2 of 3 Appellate Court judges agree with his lunatic ravings. So, it hardly matters what you or Scott or I or Dish or Thomas thinks about what is or is not colorably different. Folsom could declare the VIP series not colorably different and Dish would be between a rock and a hard place.
IMHO, complete speculation follows:
IMHO Dish and TiVo have been "talking" quite secretly for some time about Dish or Echostar purchasing TiVo, but TiVo's price was too high for our frugal Charlie Ergan. Ergen has always said that he is waiting for the results of the suit to determine what he (Dish) will do regarding TiVo. In other words, Chuck doesn't want to buy TiVo unless he has to.
TiVo has just made further provision for "golden parachutes" for its top execs (mr. Rogers among them) should a company buy TiVo, and TiVo--continuing bad news for the company--is more than willing to sell in a friendly take-over, and Ergan simply can't allow the leverage that TiVo will exert in negotiating license fees when time truly does run-out for Dish. The only option will be for Dish to buy TiVo, but at a huge cost, but not so huge that Dish cant' afford it. Rogers, et al. must get as much for the sale, while not making it too unpalatable.
IMHO, we will see an announcement of Dish or Echostar's intention to buy TiVo by the end of April. I may be wrong, but that's how I see it.
IMHO Dish and TiVo have been "talking" quite secretly for some time about Dish or Echostar purchasing TiVo, but TiVo's price was too high for our frugal Charlie Ergan. Ergen has always said that he is waiting for the results of the suit to determine what he (Dish) will do regarding TiVo. In other words, Chuck doesn't want to buy TiVo unless he has to.
TiVo has just made further provision for "golden parachutes" for its top execs (mr. Rogers among them) should a company buy TiVo, and TiVo--continuing bad news for the company--is more than willing to sell in a friendly take-over, and Ergan simply can't allow the leverage that TiVo will exert in negotiating license fees when time truly does run-out for Dish. The only option will be for Dish to buy TiVo, but at a huge cost, but not so huge that Dish cant' afford it. Rogers, et al. must get as much for the sale, while not making it too unpalatable.
IMHO, we will see an announcement of Dish or Echostar's intention to buy TiVo by the end of April. I may be wrong, but that's how I see it.
