DISH Drops AMC Networks (AMC Back on DISH channel 131)

[Juan]

I know what you mean, we have a couple channels that we watch even more than the "popular" ones. My wife in particular would be lost without the SiriusXM channels, she just prefers using one remote, one "appliance" etc... to watch TV, listen to music, etc,,,, Nothing for her to dock/undock......goes through our stereo system.
EuroNews is a must have, and don't let Dish know but we might be able to do without alot of channels before we would ever switch because they offer it.
I won't start the whole A La Carte debate here.....

euronews is on ROKU for free

 

[Tampa8]

euronews is on ROKU for free

Yes, I have it on Roku and have posted that before. You completely missed the meaning of my post. My wife would never get to watch it unless I was home if she had to make the changes to watch over the Roku rather than the one remote and receiver she knows how to use.....
Not to mention (Ok, I am) we lose internet and if we had it Cable if a leaf blows onto a wire....

 

[demsd]

Really?

This has nothing to do with the subscriber fee and everything to do with the $2.5 billion breach of contract suit against DISH for [allegedly] improperly terminating a 15-year contract with one of AMC's subsidiaries, VOOM HD - AMC Networks: Press Releases.

According to a case summary, "In Broccoli v. Echostar Communs. Corp, EchoStar committed gross spoliation by failing to retain documents relating to a potential claim. In the instant action, EchoStar failed to preserve documents not only prior to VOOM HD commencing litigation, but also for four months after this litigation was commenced, making it even more egregious than in Broccoli."

I am getting the impression that the court action is not looking good for DISH. DISH is acting vindictively, and in the process, screwing its subs to get back at AMC.

I have always appreciated the fact that DISH has always fought networks over the subscriber fees, but this is one instance that will hurt dish more than you think it will hurt AMC. DISH's claim that subscriber viewership of AMC is down is bull. The Walking Dead is apparently the No. 1 scripted drama for Dish Network subscribers, and lets not forget about Mad Men, The Killing, Hell On Wheels and Breaking Bad. Maybe there aren't many people here that watch AMC, but I'd bet a good majority of DISH subs do. I just don't see DISH coming out smelling like a rose -- they are going to be swimming in fecal matter if they lose the suit, drop AMC and subs start dropping DISH. It can't be in their best interest to do so, IMHO, and if Charlie Ergen can't see that, than he is not as smart as I thought.

“[The] AMC Networks…overall have had significant declines in viewership among DISH subscribers,” the satellite provider said in a statement. DISH went on to say that the most popular AMC programming is readily available via Amazon.com, iTunes and Netflix.

Smart play Charlie!

Let DISH drop AMC. Come sweeps, AMC will see the loss of tv viewers because DISH dropped them. DISH will have AMC by the balls because AMC will want to regain the viewers it lost to DISH. The negotiations will be in DISHs favor.

 

[whitewolf8214]

This has nothing to do with the subscriber fee and everything to do with the $2.5 billion breach of contract suit against DISH for [allegedly] improperly terminating a 15-year contract with one of AMC's subsidiaries, VOOM HD - AMC Networks: Press Releases.

According to a case summary, "In Broccoli v. Echostar Communs. Corp, EchoStar committed gross spoliation by failing to retain documents relating to a potential claim. In the instant action, EchoStar failed to preserve documents not only prior to VOOM HD commencing litigation, but also for four months after this litigation was commenced, making it even more egregious than in Broccoli."

I am getting the impression that the court action is not looking good for DISH. DISH is acting vindictively, and in the process, screwing its subs to get back at AMC.

I have always appreciated the fact that DISH has always fought networks over the subscriber fees, but this is one instance that will hurt dish more than you think it will hurt AMC. DISH's claim that subscriber viewership of AMC is down is bull. The Walking Dead is apparently the No. 1 scripted drama for Dish Network subscribers, and lets not forget about Mad Men, The Killing, Hell On Wheels and Breaking Bad. Maybe there aren't many people here that watch AMC, but I'd bet a good majority of DISH subs do. I just don't see DISH coming out smelling like a rose -- they are going to be swimming in fecal matter if they lose the suit, drop AMC and subs start dropping DISH. It can't be in their best interest to do so, IMHO, and if Charlie Ergen can't see that, than he is not as smart as I thought.

“[The] AMC Networks…overall have had significant declines in viewership among DISH subscribers,” the satellite provider said in a statement. DISH went on to say that the most popular AMC programming is readily available via Amazon.com, iTunes and Netflix.

Smart play Charlie!

+1

 

[whatchel1]

I'm looking at adding D* now w/ one of their lowest packages to get AMC. Probably won't drop E* as I can't get BBC America HD at D* and that is as important to me or more than AMC.

 

[Tampa8]

This has nothing to do with the subscriber fee and everything to do with the $2.5 billion breach of contract suit against DISH for [allegedly] improperly terminating a 15-year contract with one of AMC's subsidiaries, VOOM HD - AMC Networks: Press Releases.

According to a case summary, "In Broccoli v. Echostar Communs. Corp, EchoStar committed gross spoliation by failing to retain documents relating to a potential claim. In the instant action, EchoStar failed to preserve documents not only prior to VOOM HD commencing litigation, but also for four months after this litigation was commenced, making it even more egregious than in Broccoli."

I am getting the impression that the court action is not looking good for DISH. DISH is acting vindictively, and in the process, screwing its subs to get back at AMC.

I have always appreciated the fact that DISH has always fought networks over the subscriber fees, but this is one instance that will hurt dish more than you think it will hurt AMC. DISH's claim that subscriber viewership of AMC is down is bull. The Walking Dead is apparently the No. 1 scripted drama for Dish Network subscribers, and lets not forget about Mad Men, The Killing, Hell On Wheels and Breaking Bad. Maybe there aren't many people here that watch AMC, but I'd bet a good majority of DISH subs do. I just don't see DISH coming out smelling like a rose -- they are going to be swimming in fecal matter if they lose the suit, drop AMC and subs start dropping DISH. It can't be in their best interest to do so, IMHO, and if Charlie Ergen can't see that, than he is not as smart as I thought.

“[The] AMC Networks…overall have had significant declines in viewership among DISH subscribers,” the satellite provider said in a statement. DISH went on to say that the most popular AMC programming is readily available via Amazon.com, iTunes and Netflix.

Smart play Charlie!

You would lose that bet - save for a couple of shows, AMC is nowhere to be found in the ratings, why would Dish subscribers be any different?

You will find we have certainly covered the suit, just look back at the posts nothing new. Most of us agree the swift action comes mostly out of the suit and Dish at this point is being vindictive. But there's more at play here than that. The suit only hastened what was going to happen with AMC. The Quote you used by cave1376, well he is dead on correct. AMC has actually said they will be hurt if DISH actually drops them.
AMC Networks CEO: Dish Carriage Dispute 'May Have A Material Impact' - Yahoo! TV

Did you read what AMC wants to charge, if not all at one time, then soon?
AMC Networks - Company Town - latimes.com

"Sapan did say AMC is undervalued, a sentiment shared by many industry analysts. Distributors pay about 25 cents per-subscriber, per-month to carry AMC, according to information from industry consulting firm SNL Kagan. Sapan said the channel deserves to get 75 cents per-subscriber, a fee that would put the channel in the same neighborhood as USA, Disney Channel and TNT."


Think Dish is the only one?
AMC Demands 50% More to Renew Contract « Suddenlink FYI

So don't tell me it's all about the suit......... If providers give them 50% more when they aren't even getting good overall ratings, what will happen with channels that are ahead of them?

 

[dangue]

As has been pointed out, it's not just about the lawsuit. The timing of the contract expiration just happens to be close in time to a ruling that went against Dish. I don't think anyone can, with a straight face, say this was planned this way.

Could Dish be more firmly entrenched in their position given the legal situation? No doubt that's possible. But if AMC wants a 200% increase as reported (25 to 75 cents), then I don't for a minute doubt that Dish would be fighting just as hard against that. I'd imagine the current legal position will impact more Dish's willingness to compromise, rather than their initial position that AMC isn't worth it to them at the price they are seeking.

Sent from my iPhone using SatelliteGuys

 

[lparsons21]

I'm looking at adding D* now w/ one of their lowest packages to get AMC. Probably won't drop E* as I can't get BBC America HD at D* and that is as important to me or more than AMC.

I've thought about dropping down with D* and adding E* because of BBCA-HD and other reasons. But I can't come up with a reasonable price that way. Not figuring in any premiums because the price of them is about the same on both, here's what I come up with.

E* : One Hopper+one Joey, T200 (min for BBCA-HD), 1st year rebates : $51.99 ( goes to $76.99 after 1st year )

D* : drop to one HR24, Entertainment pack (min for AMC), HD/DVR : $73.00 approx (might get HD free, it isn't certain for existing customers)

Is my math wrong? If not, I'd be paying lots more to have both. Seems to me I could have one or the other and use iTunes or some other service and buy current episodes of the missing shows in HD for lots less than that.

 

[Mojo Jojo]

I've thought about dropping down with D* and adding E* because of BBCA-HD and other reasons. But I can't come up with a reasonable price that way. Not figuring in any premiums because the price of them is about the same on both, here's what I come up with.

E* : One Hopper+one Joey, T200 (min for BBCA-HD), 1st year rebates : $51.99 ( goes to $76.99 after 1st year )

D* : drop to one HR24, Entertainment pack (min for AMC), HD/DVR : $73.00 approx (might get HD free, it isn't certain for existing customers)

Is my math wrong? If not, I'd be paying lots more to have both. Seems to me I could have one or the other and use iTunes or some other service and buy current episodes of the missing shows in HD for lots less than that.

The only other pack I can think of that has BBC America HD is Dish Latino Max at $57.99 (regular price) with HD Max Free. That is $2/month less than AT 200. The channels in Dish Latino Max (like The Movie Channel West, The Movie Channel Xtra West, Boomerang, Fox Soccer Channel, DIY, Fox Movie Channel, Dish CD 923-946, The Hub, Playboy en Espanol, etc.) vary from the ones in AT200 (BET, CBS Sports Network, Current, Fox Business News, G4, Golf Channel, GSN, ID, LMN, msnbc, NBA TV, NFL Network, NHL Network, Nick Jr, Ovation, Oxygen, RFD-TV, Science Channel, SOAPNet, Style, TeenNick, TCM, Tru TV, Fox News Channel, ESPN U, etc.) If you also have D*, you may want to compare the two E* packs.

 

[whatchel1]

I've thought about dropping down with D* and adding E* because of BBCA-HD and other reasons. But I can't come up with a reasonable price that way. Not figuring in any premiums because the price of them is about the same on both, here's what I come up with.

E* : One Hopper+one Joey, T200 (min for BBCA-HD), 1st year rebates : $51.99 ( goes to $76.99 after 1st year )

D* : drop to one HR24, Entertainment pack (min for AMC), HD/DVR : $73.00 approx (might get HD free, it isn't certain for existing customers)

Is my math wrong? If not, I'd be paying lots more to have both. Seems to me I could have one or the other and use iTunes or some other service and buy current episodes of the missing shows in HD for lots less than that.

You are real close to correct. But since I'm coming from the other direction, so it is cheaper for me to get D* As I would only be paying about $30 per month for D* the 1st year and maybe 35 the 2nd. As I can get AMC in the lowest pacs. As you have shown and Mojo elaborated on isn't as inexpensive to stay long term D*and add E*.

 

[demsd]

It is all about the suit

You would lose that bet - save for a couple of shows, AMC is nowhere to be found in the ratings, why would Dish subscribers be any different?

Where do you get your info from, the back of a cereal box?

You will find we have certainly covered the suit, just look back at the posts nothing new. Most of us agree the swift action comes mostly out of the suit and Dish at this point is being vindictive. But there's more at play here than that. The suit only hastened what was going to happen with AMC. The Quote you used by cave1376, well he is dead on correct. AMC has actually said they will be hurt if DISH actually drops them.
AMC Networks CEO: Dish Carriage Dispute 'May Have A Material Impact' - Yahoo! TV

Right, Sapan said "may have a material impact."

Did you read what AMC wants to charge, if not all at one time, then soon?
AMC Networks - Company Town - latimes.com

"Sapan did say AMC is undervalued, a sentiment shared by many industry analysts. Distributors pay about 25 cents per-subscriber, per-month to carry AMC, according to information from industry consulting firm SNL Kagan. Sapan said the channel deserves to get 75 cents per-subscriber, a fee that would put the channel in the same neighborhood as USA, Disney Channel and TNT."

Actually, SNL Kagan estimates that AMC earns $0.26/subscriber/month -- that's $298.6 million in fees -- about $3,640,000 from DISH if all 14 million subscribers have AMC. Cable’s average carriage fee is 25 cents. IMHO, Sapan may be right. The following networks demand a higher carriage fee than AMC -- but don't deliver comparable ratings: CNN - 54 cents [on 5/22/2012, a combined 395,000 people tuned in to watch Anderson Cooper and Piers Morgan], CNBC - 30 cents, Fox News Channel - 78 cents, NFL Network - 73 cents, NHL Network - 30 cents and NBC Sports Network - 28 cents -- and DISH carries all six of them.

DISH Net’s claims that AMC's ratings aren’t worth the price of admission are not exactly supported by Nielsen data. The network enjoyed a record first quarter, scaring up an average prime-time audience of 1.23 million viewers and 554,000 adults 18-to-49 on the strength of its original series The Walking Dead. The demo delivery marked a 33 percent improvement from Q1 2011.

Season 2 of The Walking Dead nailed down five of cable’s top 10 deliveries in the quarter. The Feb. 12 episode, which marked the series’ return from a three-month hiatus, delivered 10.7 million viewers, of which 7.26 million were members of the dollar demo.

Think Dish is the only one?
AMC Demands 50% More to Renew Contract « Suddenlink FYI

So don't tell me it's all about the suit......... If providers give them 50% more when they aren't even getting good overall ratings, what will happen with channels that are ahead of them?

What does Suddenlink have to do with anything? Suddenlink represents less than two percent of AMC's total viewship -- about 224,000 people. What the article didn't state was how much Suddenlink pays per subscriber per month. 50% of $0.10 is $0.20. So, what are Suddenlinks carriage fees to AMC? Without knowing that your point, if you had one, is moot. At any rate, AMC & Suddenlink reached an agreement on March 14th, and it wasn't a 50% increase. How do we know that? Because Suddenlink is still carrying AMC.

I get it, you are not a fan of AMC, but it is all about the suit.

 

[demsd]

ITS ALL ABOUT THE LAWSUIT

As has been pointed out, it's not just about the lawsuit. The timing of the contract expiration just happens to be close in time to a ruling that went against Dish. I don't think anyone can, with a straight face, say this was planned this way.

A trial date has yet to be set for the breach of contract suit. The Appellate Division of the New York State Supreme Court only denied an application by DISH to appeal the decision by the lower court regarding evidence DISH destroyed in the VoomHD case -- and that was last weeks news. The contract with AMC does not expire until end of June. So, DISH got its rump handed to it by the NY Supreme Court, and it is lashing out at AMC. Planned? Questionable.

Could Dish be more firmly entrenched in their position given the legal situation? No doubt that's possible. But if AMC wants a 200% increase as reported (25 to 75 cents), then I don't for a minute doubt that Dish would be fighting just as hard against that. I'd imagine the current legal position will impact more Dish's willingness to compromise, rather than their initial position that AMC isn't worth it to them at the price they are seeking.

Sent from my iPhone using SatelliteGuys

Josh Sapan never said AMC wanted to increase the carriage fee DISH pays to $0.75 from $0.26. What he did say is:

"our rates on AMC are particularly out of whack," adding that, "the channel is worth as much as 75 cents per subscriber per month," and the, "hypothetical fee is not necessarily the rate we will be paid tomorrow."

ITS ALL ABOUT THE LAWSUIT. There is nothing convenient regarding a case that has yet to go to trial and the upcoming expiration of the agreement to carry AMC. What DISH is doing is attempting to strong arm AMC hoping it will have an effect on AMC's decision to proceed to trial, or at the minimum, a reasonable pre-trial settlement.

DISH screwed DISH. DISH is being sued by AMC, and because of that is being vindictive, thus screwing its subscribers. This is all about a $2.5 billion breach of contract suit, not a hypothetical $0.50 carriage fee increase. Look at the numbers, a potential $2.5 billion loss for DISH, and a potential $3.6 million [monthly] loss for AMC. Even if AMC ended up with a few hundred million -- which would cover the $3.6 million monthly loss from DISH for 83 months -- they would still end up smelling better than DISH. DISH would still have to deal with the subscriber loss that would assuredly come from dropping AMC.

You should also ask yourself, would it be fair for DISH to raise our rates because they breached a $2.5 billion contract, then in an underhanded way, destroyed evidence that probably proved they did in fact breach the contract, thus losing potentially hundreds of millions and countless subscribers?

If AMC did not sue DISH, would we be discussing anything regarding a fee increase? I think not.

 

[whitewolf8214]

A trial date has yet to be set for the breach of contract suit. The Appellate Division of the New York State Supreme Court only denied an application by DISH to appeal the decision by the lower court regarding evidence DISH destroyed in the VoomHD case -- and that was last weeks news. The contract with AMC does not expire until end of June. So, DISH got its rump handed to it by the NY Supreme Court, and it is lashing out at AMC. Planned? Questionable.




Josh Sapan never said AMC wanted to increase the carriage fee DISH pays to $0.75 from $0.26. What he did say is:



ITS ALL ABOUT THE LAWSUIT. There is nothing convenient regarding a case that has yet to go to trial and the upcoming expiration of the agreement to carry AMC. What DISH is doing is attempting to strong arm AMC hoping it will have an effect on AMC's decision to proceed to trial, or at the minimum, a reasonable pre-trial settlement.

DISH screwed DISH. DISH is being sued by AMC, and because of that is being vindictive, thus screwing its subscribers. This is all about a $2.5 billion breach of contract suit, not a hypothetical $0.50 carriage fee increase. Look at the numbers, a potential $2.5 billion loss for DISH, and a potential $3.6 million [monthly] loss for AMC. Even if AMC ended up with a few hundred million -- which would cover the $3.6 million monthly loss from DISH for 83 months -- they would still end up smelling better than DISH. DISH would still have to deal with the subscriber loss that would assuredly come from dropping AMC.

If AMC did not sue DISH, would we be discussing anything regarding a fee increase? I think not.

amen

 

[whatchel1]

What does Suddenlink have to do with anything? Suddenlink represents less than two percent of AMC's total viewship -- about 224,000 people. What the article didn't state was how much Suddenlink pays per subscriber per month. 50% of $0.10 is $0.20. So, what are Suddenlinks carriage fees to AMC? Without knowing that your point, if you had one, is moot. At any rate, AMC & Suddenlink reached an agreement on March 14th, and it wasn't a 50% increase. How do we know that? Because Suddenlink is still carrying AMC.

That he is pointing out that AMC nets is trying to put every provider over a barrel. They must be asking all high prices before they agree to more reasonable ones. It seem pretty obvious to me.

 

[Blackloz]

If this whole thing boils down to the Voom HD days, why did Dish remove them if they where in the middle of a contract? From what I can tell the Voom channels where excellent and were high quality ahead of its time.

 

[osu1991]

Is it related to the lawsuit, sure it is. Is the lawsuit the sole reason for the dispute NO.

Any channel wanting an increase in the range that Rainbow has been hinting at will have brought about the risk of the channels being dropped. There really should be a law that channel rates be openly posted for the public to see exactly what they are paying for. Of course Rainbow could say what they are asking for, but that isn't going to happen either.

It is more than a $3.6 million loss to Rainbow. If those channels are no longer on Dish, Rainbow is going to lose advertising dollars too. Losing 14 million subs for 3 or 4 channels, advertisers are going to want refunds.

Lets settle this doom and gloom forecast now, lets get rid of the channel now because I seriously doubt Dish loses more than 5000k customers over this, if that. AMC is a channel that has average ratings for 1 or 2 hours a week. Other than The Walking Dead, AMC gets for 2 hours a week around 3 million viewers (Mad Men and The Killing so far) spread out over what 6, 8, 10 providers? Breaking Bad averaged only 1.9 million viewers last season spread out over those same 6, 8, 10 providers. Again not gonna hurt Dish.

AMC Sunday Dramas Suffer Ratings Falloff - NYTimes.com

The Pitch doesn't even make a blip in the ratings.

DISASTER: This AMC Show's Ratings Are, Literally, Zero - Business Insider

Is this solely about carriage fees. No, but is it solely about a lawsuit. No

People are getting too melodramatic about this.

 

[osu1991]

If this whole thing boils down to the Voom HD days, why did Dish remove them if they where in the middle of a contract? From what I can tell the Voom channels where excellent and were high quality ahead of its time.

and very very very very repetitive

 

[Blackloz]

I never had the pleasure of watching them but I heard they were good, but I'm sure there would have been repeats.

 

[dangue]

Demsd, we'll just have to agree to disagree. Unless you have some inside knowledge, there's no way you can say with any certainty that this is all about the lawsuit.

My point is that Dish's monthly per sub profit margins are not very high. The numbers thrown out here are a very big deal to Dish's bottom line. You let AMC hit 75 cents and all of a sudden ESPN and the other cable nets want even more and pretty soon Dish either drops channels or ends up with profits approaching zero. Regardless of the case, any significant increase would be disputed and the channels would be threatened.

To a certain extent, you even made my argument for me. With a multi-billion dollar payday as a possibility, AMC's profit attributable to Dish is chump change. It stands to reason that Dish using it as leverage in the case is laughable given the disparity of values. The analysis changes if AMC believes that settling is in their best interests (case not being as strong as they'd like, wanting the money now instead of dragging it out, whatever the reason).

Then again, Dish may not be doing it for rational reasons, it could just be spite. But I'm not big on attributing human emotions to corporate entities where the bottom line tends to be king.

What is clear to me is that this is unlikely to force a settlement if AMC is not already so inclined. So I'll stand by my initial statements: the court case might discourage Dish from being as compromising as it would normally be in negotiating carriage agreements, but ultimately I still think this all revolves around cost. If Dish gets a price it can live with, the channels will stay up, if not, it might be a while before they show up again.

Sent from my iPhone using SatelliteGuys

 

[Tampa8]

Where do you get your info from, the back of a cereal box?

You must be kidding. Are you just making up responses? Others have answered this so I won't repeat links, but open your eyes, AMC shows are not doing well. "Almost Zero." (A direct quote)

Right, Sapan said "may have a material impact."

Hard to dispute me on that when AMC is actually saying it.....

Actually, SNL Kagan estimates that AMC earns $0.26/subscriber/month -- that's $298.6 million in fees -- about $3,640,000 from DISH if all 14 million subscribers have AMC. Cable’s average carriage fee is 25 cents. IMHO, Sapan may be right. The following networks demand a higher carriage fee than AMC -- but don't deliver comparable ratings: CNN - 54 cents [on 5/22/2012, a combined 395,000 people tuned in to watch Anderson Cooper and Piers Morgan], CNBC - 30 cents, Fox News Channel - 78 cents, NFL Network - 73 cents, NHL Network - 30 cents and NBC Sports Network - 28 cents -- and DISH carries all six of them.

I am not a market analysist quessing you are not either, but your opinion (or mine) makes no difference as to they do or don't deserve more. You don't see the folly of that list of channels AMC is using? It makes them seem more pathetic. News and Sports channels are a different animal. At some points they deliver more viewers than AMC ever does, it's news or sports cycles. And CNN is indeed in a situation where they can't demand any more, I'm not sure they won't have to make some concessions. The Sports channels in the list are seasonal, or new. Do you really think the NFL network doesn't get very good ratings during the season or having it draws subscribers. I would say since Dish does not do the NFL Sunday package, having NFLZ and NFLN satisfies a good portion of viewers and indeed accounts for more people than AMC does.
Why isn't AMC comparing themselves to TNT or USA? I think we know why.

What does Suddenlink have to do with anything?

I am pointing out another provider who publically is saying the rates will not be paid. Don't you think there are others when the contract comes up that will be saying the same thing?

I will once again say it's not a good thing for Dish to lose AMC. The point is it's not just about the lawsuit, not by a long shot. And while not good losing it, I'm not seeing how losing AMC will send people running to change providers.