dish alignment issue

[tookien123]

I'm trying to align the dish motor to get only the galaxy south west-oriented satellite signals.
Here is what I did so far:

I double checked the main mounting pole is vertically aligned with level.
I positioned the motor (set default at 0 degrees) along with the dish to point directly to south.
I double checked the clamps that hold the motor are evenly spaced out (same amount of threads) and sturdy.
I set the declination on the motor alignment bracket to 6.6 degrees (43.7 latitude) (I live in Toronto).
I set the dish bracket angle given the value in the motors manual lookup table to 23.4 degrees.
I programmed the motor with the satellite receiver (an older model but barely used Coolsat Pro 4000) to move to only these satellite (starting with I believe 97 degrees West and up) positions via USALS and I entered my longitude and latitude (west and north) coordinates.
It moves but each quality signal strength is extremely low (around 5 percent), not exactly sure what the top signal bar indicates but that one averages around 85 percent.

Any advice would be much appreciated (the forum members here have helped me tremendously in choosing this setup). I don't understand whats going on because previously I had a small dish for picking up atleast one FTA signal, and its roughly in the same position in terms of the elevation, just a bit higher but now a 33 inch dish and a motor. These are very small one storey houses and I don't think the elevation is the problem, nothing should interfere but even so atleast I should be able to pick up a few signals, but I maybe wrong with my alignments above before I attempt to mount the dish higher. Also the satellites I'm targetting are far above any houses and trees as far as I can tell.

Thank you once more for any feedback, its very much appreciated.

 

[northgeorgia]

It's really hard to set up a motor if you've never done it before -- but take heart, we were all there once! Several people suggest just trying to find the satellites without the motor first, so you can get acquainted with the dish angle and the approximate positions of the satellites. But, it's ok to try to find them with the motor mounted, too!

Make sure both your pole and your motor are perfectly plum first. After that, as you have discovered, comes the "fun" part: finding the satellites and having the motor track the arc perfectly. Not an easy task! Typically at this point, you would try to find the satellite closest to your south with a signal (in your case, probably either 72W or 83W). But if you have a USALS compatible motor, you can sort of "ignore" that advice and use your receiver to drive the motor to the satellite of your choice. One satellite I like to use is 95W which has a very strong signal. It contains several channels from Central Chinese Television (11780 H 20760). I haven't worked with a Coolsat receiver, but I would guess you could enter the data manually. Most of the time, I found that I need to tweak the dish slightly east or west. You can press gently on the dish to see if you get an improvement in signal. Then try loosening the motor a bit to swing the dish more fully. The key thing when doing these adjustments is to do it VERY slowly...a centimeter or so at a time, because it takes a few seconds for the signal to register on the Coolsat. You might also have to adjust the dish up and down slightly. Leave your latitude setting alone on the motor (as long as you're sure it's marked correctly), and do the adjustment on the dish itself. The markings are sometimes off. Be patient, and once you get that first signal, you're all set! After you get the best signal on 95W, try moving it to 97W and (if the receiver has the capability,) blind scan. Did you get all the 200 something channels? Try the next satellite... You will likely find that at some point you'll be slightly off the arc. This is usually due to a pole or motor that isn't plumb, or an incorrect elevation on the dish (at which point, you'll make the adjustments, and go back and try again to see how accurately the motor is tracking).

It may take you a few days of practice, but we're here to answer you questions!

 

[gpflepsen]

Remember, just because your pole is plumb doesn't automatically mean the necessary alignment is translated to what is important; the motor or polar mount axis. You should plumb your pole, then install the motor with the elevation at the angle of the mounting arm. This will (should) make the piece the dish mounts to plumb. If it is not plumb, adjust the main pole and/or motor bracket to make the motor arm plumb in both planes. Note the error on the motor EL/LAT scale to compensate for setting the elevation. This should dial it in very well.

 

[madmadworld]

take dish off motor aim the dish at 83 tune in the RTV stations. peak them in note the Q on the meter. before you take the dish off the pole move the lnb back to zero skew but leave the focal the same.

once you have the motor lined up and to zero put the dish on square to the south.
then get the cooly to move it to 83 with usals then make the adjustments to the dish to peak in the RTV Stations
good luck

 

[northgeorgia]

Oh yes! And don't skew your LNBF on a motorized setup. The motor will do that for you automatically as the dish movies and tilts. It should be set at "0"

 

[jorgek]

Lots of great advise from seasoned FTA hobbiests. I created a problem when I was playing with my motor installation.
I over torqued the bolts securing the motor bracket to the mast and deformed the pipe. Its easy to do since not all masts are created with the same thickness of steel. The results was that it messed up my dish from tracking the arc correctly. I wasted a lot of time making unnessary adjustments until I discovered what the problem was.
So be careful, the 36" dish and motor are heavy and it maybe normal tendency to over tighten the various nuts and bolts.
good luck.....

 

[tookien123]

I did what was suggested but I wasn't able to find a satellite signal on any satellites with or without using the motor.

When I had the motor set on a certain position (ie: 97w), I moved the dish itself very slowly (on its own scale/angle bracket) to various positions.

I checked using a smartphone app where the satellites are located and used that as a guide as well.

Seems I'm going to have to do some more research in order to make sure I'm doing it right before I get back to it. So far I'm thinking its best if I at least purchase a cheap satellite signal finder. And my compass app on my smart phone seems a little fishy as well. I don't know if I have to roughly point the dish at south (which I'm doing) or have it pointed exactly to the nth degree, this maybe one of my problems.

Thanks again for all the feedback.

 

[northgeorgia]

Send us some photos of your setup, and we'll see if we can spot anything

 

[SatelliteAV]

The motor bracket angle is to be set to match your latitude, not the declination. Use your Latitude if referencing and setting with the Latitude scale or subtract your latitude from 90 if referencing and setting with the Elevation scale.

The dish elevation is often calculated by subtracting the declination angle from 30 degrees.

I believe the dish is aimed way too low.

 

[tookien123]

I have the latitude set at on the motor bracket as my current latitude.
And for the dish angle level I set it as what the motor manual indicated at 23.3 given my latitude.

The bolt/nut is a little wide for precise angle so for the given angle I position it relative to the center of the bolt/nut.

I tried again and I managed to get a signal around 15 percent (atleast much better than 5). I got this while playing around with the level more, so it seems my problem might just be with the level of the mounting pole itself and pointing it to South (it seems that this has to be spot on).

But now it seems after so much reclamping the pipe is a bit deformed (as was mentioned by jorgek) and when I try to adjust better for south it moves back into previous position, so I will have to find a thicker and more stronger mounting pole, the ones that come with the satellite dish seem to be too weak.

 

[SatelliteAV]

Usually the elevation nut is not used as the pointer for the dish elevation scale. Knowing what you are working with would be very helpful! What brand dish, LNBF along with several photos of the back (with close-up of scales), side angle to show the dish and the motor tube angles, front view of dish and LNBF.

1. What Satellite are you aiming for? Pick one.

2. What is the LO frequency setting for the LNBF? Is this selected LO setting in the receiver install menu? The LNBF must be the right type to receive these satellites and the receiver menu setting must match the LO frequency. Mismatch will prevent the receiver from seeing the satellite signal.

2. What Transponder frequency, Polarity and symbol rate are you using on this satellite? An active transponder must be selected or programmed for the receiver to "look" for the signal. If an inactive transponder is selected, the satellite will not be found.

 

[tookien123]

Thanks, I think you're right, I remember now there is a little notch to the right of the nut on the motor. all this time I was using the center of the nut for the alignment. Looking at the manual it seems like the drawings were using the nut as well.
For the dish I don't think there is a notch of any kind to measure against the bracket angle.
I will first setup better mounting pole, re-align everything again and then if the same problems occur I will post images of the setup.
I'm using the eagle star pro53-SG2100A motor.

 

[SatelliteAV]

Which EagleStar LNBF? They have several model 53-????-?

http://www.aa-e.com/display.php?categoryID=53-4&groupID=9

 

[tookien123]

I have the Digiwave DGL-990D KU-Band LNBF.

 

[tookien123]

Usually the elevation nut is not used as the pointer for the dish elevation scale. Knowing what you are working with would be very helpful! What brand dish, LNBF along with several photos of the back (with close-up of scales), side angle to show the dish and the motor tube angles, front view of dish and LNBF.

1. What Satellite are you aiming for? Pick one.

2. What is the LO frequency setting for the LNBF? Is this selected LO setting in the receiver install menu? The LNBF must be the right type to receive these satellites and the receiver menu setting must match the LO frequency. Mismatch will prevent the receiver from seeing the satellite signal.

2. What Transponder frequency, Polarity and symbol rate are you using on this satellite? An active transponder must be selected or programmed for the receiver to "look" for the signal. If an inactive transponder is selected, the satellite will not be found.

For 1) my starting point is 97.0West.
2) 10.75 GHZ
3) I will have to recheck that on the receiver, but first I have to fix my mounting issue before I start testing again.


Thanks for the response.

 

[jorgek]

tookien123,

I did a quick setup of my Stab 90 motor and 31” dish on my deck the morning.

I managed to get 97º W with a Q of 60, did not bother to tweak for higher Q.

Motor is set to my LAT 43.6º.
The elevation mark on the dish is at 42º.

I measured the dish angle with an inclinometer by placing a straight edge across the face of the dish from edge to edge.
The reading was 20º

Based on the dish and motor at your end the dish elevation mark will be different but I think that the face of the dish should be at about 20º.

Hope this is of some help.

 

[tookien123]

omg, thank you this may help me indeed. Will check first thing tomorrow using your parameters.

I purchased and installed wall mount brackets and 5 ft poll since the mounting pole that came with the dish was bent out of shape when I re-clamped the motor multiple times and prevented me from tweaking it south. Lesson now learned in terms of over-clamping, but those grey pipes that come with the dishes are terrible quality (are they even metal? LOL, maybe its just me being a noOb). Unfortunately I still wasn't able to get a signal again (going for 95 W this time around). I would have taken pictures of the setup, but I just finished right now and its dark.

Thanks again.

 

[tookien123]

Hi jorgek,

Thanks again but unfortunately I still couldn't get any signal over 10 Q on 97 nor 95 (tried both).

Here is my recent setup:









My latitude is pretty much the same as yours (43.7 degrees).

Here is what the motor manual indicates for 43.7 (rounded to 44):

Elevation angle: 46
Declination angle: 6.7
Dish Bracket angle: 23.3 (I tried this one but it didn't work, it makes sense since 30 - 6.7 = 23.3, I then tried 42 that didn't work either)

I used my smartphone app compass first for true South, that didn't work. Then I went to Satellite Dish finder/alignment calculator, I used the given line and a reference point in my area to point the dish at South which didn't work either.

Thanks for any input.

 

[northgeorgia]

Let's see some close up pictures of the setup. We might be able to spot something unusual.

 

[tookien123]

give me a few minutes...