Dish 1000 Coming Soon
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Quick question what will Dish do to the international channels that will go 16x9ws and HD next year and the future. Will they crop them to 4x3 letterbox or just drop them do to bandwidth.
The low elevation angles for 129 W in the northeast U.S. make it a bad choice to put national programming on it. In regards to putting the wing locals at 129 W to solve the single dish for one market rule, IIRC the new single dish for one market legislation (with a deadline of May 2006) requires that if someone subscribes to their locals, they must have a single dish installed that can receive all their locals. This would mean that folks who have a wing dish would still have to have a Dish 1000 installed. This would be costly for Dish and one would expect E-10 to resolve this problem anyway. It appears the best use of 129 W would be for HD locals using MPEG-4. They could provide at least the big four networks to most of the top 10 - 20 U.S. markets. N.Y., Boston and Philadelphia could be put on R-1 once Dish gets FCC approval for the acquisition which based on the FCC 180 day timeline should be in late August. This would also allow Dish to offer HD distant networks to folks who qualify. Obviously this is predicated on Dish coming out with MPEG-4 receivers.
I would like to throw out some other scenarios that Dish maybe able to use related to the 129 W slot. These are based on the assumption that Dish's spotbeams satellites could be relocated without losing most of the spotbeam capability. It also assumes that the E-10 satellite will be launched successfully and be capable of taking over for most if not all of the locals on E-8 at 110 W and the split locals on the wings. This would free up E-8 which could be moved to 129 W to provide additional HD locals using its spotbeams from there. Obviously moving any other satellite besides E-5 to 129 W would require FCC and Canadian approval. The northeast U.S. spotbeam on E-8 may not be usable from 129 W because of the look angle but if the spotbeam maps are somewhat accurate, the southern portion of the spotbeam could probable be used in the mid-Atlantic states for markets such as Washington, D.C. and Baltimore etc. The E-8 spotbeam for Puerto Rico also would not be useable but perhaps E-10 will have a spotbeam for Puerto Rico.
Now if E-10 could replace both E-6 and E-8 at 110 W as well as the E-7 spotbeams, then E-7 could be moved to 129 W to provide additional HD locals using its spotbeams from there. This certainly is a tall order for E-10 but other satellites like R-1 have similar capabilities. E-6 would have to be moved to 119 W to provide 21 CONUS TPs from there. In this scenario, E-7 and E-8 would use the first 10 TPs at 129 W for spotbeams and Dish would have 5 additional CONUS TPs at 119 W that were used by E-7 for spotbeams. The question is how many TPs will E-10 need at 110 W. E-8 currently uses 5 TPs for spotbeams and there are another 3 TPs worth of non-distant network locals that one would expect would be moved to spotbeams. There is also another TP at 110 W (number 19) that use to be used for HD but is now nearly empty bringing the total of 9. Dish could move 5 TPs of national programming from 110 W to 119 W that was freed up from the E-7 spotbeams. This would give Dish 14 TPs for E-10 and perhaps R-1 at 110 W if R-1 were moved there. Some of these 14 also could be used for national HD programming. The northeast HD locals that I mentioned above on R-1 could be moved to E-3 at 61.5 W once the wing locals are moved off to E-10 and R-1 could help E-10 with some of the CONUS TPs at 110 W. I realize this is a great deal of satellite movement but it would give Dish significantly more bandwidth and would not cost a lot in terms of installing new dishes.
I would like to throw out some other scenarios that Dish maybe able to use related to the 129 W slot. These are based on the assumption that Dish's spotbeams satellites could be relocated without losing most of the spotbeam capability. It also assumes that the E-10 satellite will be launched successfully and be capable of taking over for most if not all of the locals on E-8 at 110 W and the split locals on the wings. This would free up E-8 which could be moved to 129 W to provide additional HD locals using its spotbeams from there. Obviously moving any other satellite besides E-5 to 129 W would require FCC and Canadian approval. The northeast U.S. spotbeam on E-8 may not be usable from 129 W because of the look angle but if the spotbeam maps are somewhat accurate, the southern portion of the spotbeam could probable be used in the mid-Atlantic states for markets such as Washington, D.C. and Baltimore etc. The E-8 spotbeam for Puerto Rico also would not be useable but perhaps E-10 will have a spotbeam for Puerto Rico.
Now if E-10 could replace both E-6 and E-8 at 110 W as well as the E-7 spotbeams, then E-7 could be moved to 129 W to provide additional HD locals using its spotbeams from there. This certainly is a tall order for E-10 but other satellites like R-1 have similar capabilities. E-6 would have to be moved to 119 W to provide 21 CONUS TPs from there. In this scenario, E-7 and E-8 would use the first 10 TPs at 129 W for spotbeams and Dish would have 5 additional CONUS TPs at 119 W that were used by E-7 for spotbeams. The question is how many TPs will E-10 need at 110 W. E-8 currently uses 5 TPs for spotbeams and there are another 3 TPs worth of non-distant network locals that one would expect would be moved to spotbeams. There is also another TP at 110 W (number 19) that use to be used for HD but is now nearly empty bringing the total of 9. Dish could move 5 TPs of national programming from 110 W to 119 W that was freed up from the E-7 spotbeams. This would give Dish 14 TPs for E-10 and perhaps R-1 at 110 W if R-1 were moved there. Some of these 14 also could be used for national HD programming. The northeast HD locals that I mentioned above on R-1 could be moved to E-3 at 61.5 W once the wing locals are moved off to E-10 and R-1 could help E-10 with some of the CONUS TPs at 110 W. I realize this is a great deal of satellite movement but it would give Dish significantly more bandwidth and would not cost a lot in terms of installing new dishes.
In order to move any hd around Dish will have to resolve the 2 dish for locals in the 36 markets it has now to one. I don't think that the Voom channels will stay on the R1 satellite by next year. Most likely they could move all the hd channels to the new 129 slot. Then they could free up transponders they are using for hd on 110 for the consolidation of local cities with a 2 dish solution . I don't know how many of the 36 dmas they can squeeze onto 110 /119 , but when they put up Echostar 10 up this should be enough to do the job. What are they going to do with R 1 then? I would think they would move it to maybe 110 and let it back up the satellites there to finish the 40 dmas they lack to finish locals. Anyone else with any ideas?
It seems to me that Dish is moving Rainbow1 to 110. Maybe Ecostar10 will go to 105 or 119? I believe that there is a method to their madness. I see a possible future of all National HD and Local HD LIL on 105 and 129. These will be in mpeg 4 and the time will be around spring 2006. It might be earlier if D* gets their Spaceways working. 110 and 119 will be used for SD and SD LIL until everyone has an MPEG4 receiver. Internationals will all be on 61.5 and 148.
Right now D* has three high powered sattelites in the sky that they are barely using if at all. They are only using three transponders on R1 and haven't they already received permision to move that sat to 110? All this providing the sale of Voom's assets goes through (anyone here doubt that is going to happen after the FCC has approved other reposistion of sats for Dish?).
I believe that Charlie's direction is very clear. With a high powered sat at 105, 110 and 129 he would have nearly all of the ConusUS covered with spot capability. That means he would be able to offer up 70 to 80 % of HD LIL to his customers as soon as the MPEG4 receivers are ready.
I see a very controlled release program. Dish offers HD LIL with new HD national programing to certain areas along with MPEG4 technology. He will probably cover the top 25 to 30 markets (aprox 65% of viewers) by the end of 2006. The only thing slowing him down will be how quickly those MPEG4 receivers can be produced along with the Dish 1000's and how fast he can get them installed. The race is on with D*'s new Spaceway Sats and I believe the next 12 months are going to be very exciting for those of us who crave HD.
Right now D* has three high powered sattelites in the sky that they are barely using if at all. They are only using three transponders on R1 and haven't they already received permision to move that sat to 110? All this providing the sale of Voom's assets goes through (anyone here doubt that is going to happen after the FCC has approved other reposistion of sats for Dish?).
I believe that Charlie's direction is very clear. With a high powered sat at 105, 110 and 129 he would have nearly all of the ConusUS covered with spot capability. That means he would be able to offer up 70 to 80 % of HD LIL to his customers as soon as the MPEG4 receivers are ready.
I see a very controlled release program. Dish offers HD LIL with new HD national programing to certain areas along with MPEG4 technology. He will probably cover the top 25 to 30 markets (aprox 65% of viewers) by the end of 2006. The only thing slowing him down will be how quickly those MPEG4 receivers can be produced along with the Dish 1000's and how fast he can get them installed. The race is on with D*'s new Spaceway Sats and I believe the next 12 months are going to be very exciting for those of us who crave HD.
"I see a possible future of all National HD and Local HD LIL on 105 and 129."
It's unlikely that national HD would ever be on 105, since it's a FSS, SuperDish-only slot, spot transmitting only SD locals IIRC. That means that some of the locals could be transmitted in HD from 105, but not national HD channels. It's anyone's guess as to what E* will do with 129. I think that HD distant networks (what is that? 5 or 6 cities?) and at least some other major locals will be transmitted from 110 or maybe 119, unless 129 is used for ConUS, national HD transmission. At least five or so locals have to be broadcast ConUS for digital distant networks, allowed next year. In that case, 129 could be used for distant HD networks and national HD because E*'s official E5 description did not mention spot transponders. Charlie has said HD LIL is not cost effective, but I think many will have to be offered, anyway.
It's unlikely that national HD would ever be on 105, since it's a FSS, SuperDish-only slot, spot transmitting only SD locals IIRC. That means that some of the locals could be transmitted in HD from 105, but not national HD channels. It's anyone's guess as to what E* will do with 129. I think that HD distant networks (what is that? 5 or 6 cities?) and at least some other major locals will be transmitted from 110 or maybe 119, unless 129 is used for ConUS, national HD transmission. At least five or so locals have to be broadcast ConUS for digital distant networks, allowed next year. In that case, 129 could be used for distant HD networks and national HD because E*'s official E5 description did not mention spot transponders. Charlie has said HD LIL is not cost effective, but I think many will have to be offered, anyway.
MikeD-C05 said:
I have to believe that Dish is counting on E-10 to solve their single dish for all locals in a market problem. There is very little information out there on the design of E-10 but it has been reported that it has at least 45 TPs for spotbeams although it could be 45 spotbeams with more than 70 TPs for these 45 spotbeams. In comparison E-8 at 110 W has 25-26 TPs for its 16 spotbeams and R-1 has 130 TPs for its 22 spotbeams. Even with only 45 TPs for spotbeams, E-10 will easily have the spotbeam capacity to replace the locals on E-8 and move the split locals from the wings to 110 W. In terms of TP usage of E-10, as noted in my previous post E-8 currently uses 5 TPs at 110 W and there are another 3 TPs worth of non-distant network locals on CONUS TPs at 110 W that one would expect would be moved to spotbeams. This would give E-10 use of at least 8 TPs for spotbeams at 110 W without moving the HD programming at 110 W elsewhere.
Moving all the HD to 129 W poses two big problems, the elevation angle for folks in the northeast U.S. and the cost to Dish of replacing the D500 dishes with D1000 dishes for all current HD subscribers. Now Dish could mirror all HD programming on 61.5 W with R-1 for the folks in the northeast U.S. but this is not an efficient use of bandwidth.
Dish has put entire local markets on 148 W which complies with the single dish for all locals in a market legislation. Once the split locals are moved off the wings, some of the remaining local markets could be placed there.
In response to another post, Dish does not yet have FCC approval for the acquisition of R-1 and nothing has been filed to move it to 110 W. Dish leases AMC-15 at 105 W which is a regular Ku band slot not a DBS Ku band slot so E-10, a DBS Ku band satellite can not possibly be placed at 105 W. Perhaps the poster meant the proposed 105.5 W DBS tweener slot but this has not been approved by the FCC.
One last bit of information about the 129 W slot. Unless the FCC made a mistake in the approval document, Dish will have use of all 32 TPs at 129 W until September 30, 2008. Another item worth noting is that Dish has leased all the capacity on a regular Ku band satellite at 118.7 W to be launched in the first quarter of 2006.
DBS was somewhat invented to do away with motorized dishes. However, I must aree.bcshields said:
No, motorized dishes can't support more than a single receiver. Duh.
R-1 is NOT moving to 110. That was a rumor started by some anonymous nobody. R-1 will stay at 61.5 due to it's spotbeam design. I suspect it'll be used for eastern US HD LiL. 129 just might become the spot for western US HD LiL, although 148/157 is still hanging out there for the west coast - if they put some birds there.
R-1 is NOT moving to 110. That was a rumor started by some anonymous nobody. R-1 will stay at 61.5 due to it's spotbeam design. I suspect it'll be used for eastern US HD LiL. 129 just might become the spot for western US HD LiL, although 148/157 is still hanging out there for the west coast - if they put some birds there.
How much of the USA can R-1 cover from 110? I've read opinions that given the shape of the coverage built into R-1, that it would not be able to cover the entire USA from that position.
Also do you think it would be wise to construct a solution where the large East Coast markets would need a 2-dish solution to get all of the HD channels? That could give DirecTV a solid advantage to selling to the East Coast as HD becomes more prevalent.
Also do you think it would be wise to construct a solution where the large East Coast markets would need a 2-dish solution to get all of the HD channels? That could give DirecTV a solid advantage to selling to the East Coast as HD becomes more prevalent.
Tom Bombadil said:
The only good reason to move R-1 to 110 W would be to use its spotbeams. How the R-1 spotbeam contours would be effected by moving it 48.5 degrees west of where it was designed is anyone's guess but it maybe possible to use most of the spotbeams by changing the attitude (the direction it faces the earth's surface) of the satellite somewhat.
You bring up a good point about Dish being at a competitive disadvantage with a 2-dish solution for East Coast Markets. Certainly a 2-dish solution is better than a no line of sight to a satellite at an elevation of less than 20 degrees i.e., 129 W. Perhaps Dish will move some of the SD locals off of AMC-15 at 105 W to E-10 at 110 W and put East Coast HD locals there. This would require a Superdish but what size of dish will DirecTV require for its Ka band signals? Actually the problem with 129 W is limited to the Northeast U.S. The elevation angles improve as you move south so anything south of Philadelphia would have elevation angles greater than 20 degrees for 129 W.
