Diseqc robs signal

[boomer_106]

Just hooked up an ecoda diseqc and ecoda 22khz switch to my DVB. While trying to pull in the pentagon channel on amc 1 at 103* west I could not get a signal. I then plugged the ku lnb right into the dvb and boom pentagon channel with a quality of 73. The same thing happened the other night on KQUP 123* west. This signal is always strong for me til I hook in the switch.

I did make sure the port settings were set up right in the menu. Is there anything I can do besides the obvious of not using a diseqc? I've been experimenting with setting up a few dishes so I don't have to wait for the dish to move get a few of my fav. FTA channels but, looks like I may just have to wait for it to move.

 

[vfrjim]

a 22 khz switch has a lot of signal loss from my experiences. I add a 10db inline amp to make up the loss if it hurts me from locking a signal that I know should be better.

I actually had to do this yesterday for AMC6, was getting a lot of breakup, but if I removed the switch it was fine. Inserted a 10db amp and all is fine. Happens sometimes when you send a signal to a 4way splitter.

 

[boomer_106]

a 22 khz switch has a lot of signal loss from my experiences. I add a 10db inline amp to make up the loss if it hurts me from locking a signal that I know should be better.

I actually had to do this yesterday for AMC6, was getting a lot of breakup, but if I removed the switch it was fine. Inserted a 10db amp and all is fine. Happens sometimes when you send a signal to a 4way splitter.

vfrjim ty very much for your reply. Can you recommend an amp? Also do you mount it out at the feedhorn or inside somewhere? I suppose if it's electrically powered it would have to be done inside.

 

[lumpkin666]

I'd check over everything before adding an amp. A 22k switch and a diseqc shouldn't take a 75 signal down to nothing. MANY people on the forums have well over a hundred feet of RG6 going through a motor, diseqc, 22k, and even a multiswitch before getting to the lnb. Sure each connection can attenuate the signal a bit, but not too significantly. Good quality RG6 (or RG11) and good compression fittings can make a significant difference in signal quality.

As far as an amp - you'll want it as close to the source as possible because the amp will amplify whatever signal it gets. If you place it too far down the line, you're amp'ing the interference along with the signal. Also, the amp will add some disruption to the signal as well (although it does amp the signal, so it's a decent trade-off if you have to use it).

 

[Mr Tony]

yeah something doesnt sound right. I have a Primestar dish on SBS6 with the 2 LNB output (one V one H) so I HAVE to use a multiswicth. Then I have a 22k and a 4x1 diseqc involved. So setup for the SBS6 dish is as such

receiver---ecoda 22k----diseqc port 1------multiswitch-----dish

total cable amount...about 75 feet

signal without switch (run directly into the LNB)...on ONN...99
signal through all that...99

a couple feeds I lost maybe 2 points on the Pansat which is a wacky meter.

If you look at my sig, I have plenty of witches & 22k switches setup with very little signal loss

 

[boomer_106]

Well I have no idea what's going on then. Maybe a bad diseqc ? I got the ecoda on your recommendations in another thread. I'm surprised it made that big of a difference too. I'm using RG6 made by choice cable. Says sweep tested to 3 ghz. It's not like I don't get any channels with it hooked up this way but, that's at least two occasions now where it took me from good signal to nothing. I literally can't get the pentagon channel with the switches in line. REc--22khz----diseqc

 

[boomer_106]

I'd check over everything before adding an amp. A 22k switch and a diseqc shouldn't take a 75 signal down to nothing. MANY people on the forums have well over a hundred feet of RG6 going through a motor, diseqc, 22k, and even a multiswitch before getting to the lnb. Sure each connection can attenuate the signal a bit, but not too significantly. Good quality RG6 (or RG11) and good compression fittings can make a significant difference in signal quality.

As far as an amp - you'll want it as close to the source as possible because the amp will amplify whatever signal it gets. If you place it too far down the line, you're amp'ing the interference along with the signal. Also, the amp will add some disruption to the signal as well (although it does amp the signal, so it's a decent trade-off if you have to use it).

As far as checking over everything. It seems the only parts that could be in question are the diseqc or 22khz. Bypassing those gives me good signal.

 

[boomer_106]

I take the cable out of the diseqc and put it directly into the 22khz and boom signal back strong so the 22 khz is fine.



OK, now I unplug the C band feed from the diseqc and my signal on the pentagon channel is now bouncing between 62 and 73. Plenty to watch the channel. It's bounced below that a few times even losing the signal once but for the most part is working. What ? I can't have the C band lnb plugged in at the same time? Is it overpowering the switch or something. That's all I did. The best thing I've seen so far is taking out the diseqc altogether but, it looks like it would be ok with the C LNB disconnected as well.

Any ideas?

 

[Anole]

Yes, this very thing has been discussed before.
As I recall, the member had a powered LNB feeding an OFF input to his switch, and when that dish was pointing at an active bird, it leaked through his switch.

Some of these switches don't have a lot of off-channel attenuation, apparently.
They generally turn off power to unused LNBs, so there is no input signal to attenuate.

I'd go on these above assumptions, and see if there is a work-around possible.


edit:
I think he only had a problem when his C-band LNB was pointed at a particular satellite, which gave LNB output that conflicted with his desired IF signal from his Ku LNB.
Turn off LNB power to your C-band, or aim it elsewhere.
Not a good solution, but good for a test.

 

[boomer_106]

Yes, this very thing has been discussed before.
As I recall, the member had a powered LNB feeding an OFF input to his switch, and when that dish was pointing at an active bird, it leaked through his switch.

These switches don't have a lot of off-channel attenuation, apparently.
The generally turn off power to unused LNBs, so there is no input signal to attenuate.

I'd go on these above assumptions, and see if there is a work-around possible.

I was thinking that so I went into the C band menu for that bird(I have one set up as c band LO freq 5150 and one as ku LO at 10750 so that I won't have to keep changing the LO freq.) and set the LNB power to off and it didn't help. It still leaks through.

One other thing, before I put this diseqc in, on the DVB receiver the LNB power was set to off by default and it didn't matter. The analog c/ku receiver I suppose was powering the LNB. Now that I have the diseqc in I have to turn LNB power on in the DVB receiver. It's no big deal I just think it's a little strange. I'd sure like to know what that work around is. It's gonna be a major pain in the neck to keep switching cables based on whether I want to watch or C or KU channel. Especially since I like blind searching for sports feeds.


Yep Anole that's it. It totally robs the signal if I have both lnbs plugged in. My C band is a combination C/KU so I can hit any bird I want. I can't aim it another satellite so the only solution is to unplug it. I wonder if one of those A/B switches made for cable and game systems would work? Worst case scenario I would have to just slide that switch when my signal goes bye bye

I wonder why Iceberg isn't experiencing this? He's got like 50 lnbs hooked up

 

[Anole]

I couldln't quite visualize your description, but...

- I'm sure the C-band LNB is getting power from somewhere, else it wouldn't be causing interference
(other receiver, powered switch, etc)

- It is entirely possible your Ecoda switch is damaged, at least on one port.
(try changing the C-band signal to another input position).

 

[vfrjim]

Yes, this very thing has been discussed before.
As I recall, the member had a powered LNB feeding an OFF input to his switch, and when that dish was pointing at an active bird, it leaked through his switch.

Some of these switches don't have a lot of off-channel attenuation, apparently.
They generally turn off power to unused LNBs, so there is no input signal to attenuate.

I'd go on these above assumptions, and see if there is a work-around possible.


edit:
I think he only had a problem when his C-band LNB was pointed at a particular satellite, which gave LNB output that conflicted with his desired IF signal from his Ku LNB.
Turn off LNB power to your C-band, or aim it elsewhere.
Not a good solution, but good for a test.

Actually, that person that had the problem was ME, and I solved the Disecq overload from the Cband LNB by using an attenuator that allows voltage to pass and that solved my problem but I still get too much loss on one of my 22k switches in combination of a Disecq, it could be that specific 22k switch or Disecq port, but since I did not feel like trouble-shooting it before the game last night, I put in a RCA brand 10db amp, just before the 22k switch (I have a water-proof junction box at my dish location) and it solved my problem for the time being, if it warms up, I will spend more time to see if it is a specific device that is causing my signal loss.

Jim

 

[boomer_106]

I couldln't quite visualize your description, but...

- I'm sure the C-band LNB is getting power from somewhere, else it wouldn't be causing interference
(other receiver, powered switch, etc)

- It is entirely possible your Ecoda switch is damaged, at least on one port.
(try changing the C-band signal to another input position).

Yeah I'm sure the LNB is getting power from the slaved analog BUD receiver. I'm not sure if you saw the edits to my previous post where I did more troubleshooting or not. I did change around all the positions on the diseqc. I even swapped it out with the extra diseqc I bought. It works fine as long as that other cable is unhooked.

 

[boomer_106]

Actually, that person that had the problem was ME, and I solved the Disecq overload from the Cband LNB by using an attenuator that allows voltage to pass and that solved my problem but I still get too much loss on one of my 22k switches in combination of a Disecq, it could be that specific 22k switch or Disecq port, but since I did not feel like trouble-shooting it before the game last night, I put in a RCA brand 10db amp, just before the 22k switch (I have a water-proof junction box at my dish location) and it solved my problem for the time being, if it warms up, I will spend more time to see if it is a specific device that is causing my signal loss.

Jim

Jim, what is this attenuator you speak of? How does it know when and when not to pass voltage? Do you happen to have the make and model so I can look it up online?

 

[Mr Tony]

boomer
I dont know what to tell you. Now that I think of it, I have a Visonsat that has a 8x1 and a 4x1 off one port...so 4 LNB's have to go
receiver----------------8x1----------4x1----------LNB

and the reciever cable run is about 100 feet

 

[boomer_106]

boomer
I dont know what to tell you. Now that I think of it, I have a Visonsat that has a 8x1 and a 4x1 off one port...so 4 LNB's have to go
receiver----------------8x1----------4x1----------LNB

and the reciever cable run is about 100 feet

by chance, are you mixing a C LNB in with KU on one of those switches?

On a side note do you have to fiddle a bit to catch feeds on SBS6 (gal. 17) Seems like I always have to mess with the skew and dish when I find a feed posted. Consequently it makes it tough to blind scan this bird. I'm watching it now with quality bouncing from 50 or so to like 10 every now and then. Maybe this is one of them where a fixed dish would be best. That or the tuner in my DVB isn't that sensitive. I don't know. This is with no switches hooked up

Edit

I think I see why this is happening. The wind is blowing about 9000 miles an hour shaking my poor bud.

 

[vfrjim]

Jim, what is this attenuator you speak of? How does it know when and when not to pass voltage? Do you happen to have the make and model so I can look it up online?

I will have to get back to you on this one because my Verizon Fios installer gave me it when I was in his truck, he basically told me to take what I wanted

But, one of these should do the trick SG103D RF ATTENUATOR 20db, 3dB, 8dB, 12dB COAXIAL

You need DC voltage to pass usually when going into the DisecQ, if you split the LNB, usually the DC block is done there and you should not need to block DC again

 

[boomer_106]

I will have to get back to you on this one because my Verizon Fios installer gave me it when I was in his truck, he basically told me to take what I wanted

Pretty sweet deal

 

[vfrjim]

Pretty sweet deal

I did update the link that I posted for the attenuators, the first one was wrong

 

[boomer_106]

Only thing I'm worried about is attenuating my C band signal. Then I'll have problems with that.