No instructions vs translated chinese instructions,,,no instructions is probably easier to understand 
Discussion: Who is Interested in a C-band or Large Dish Purchase? Build and Cost?
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If I didn't have what I need, I would definitely purchase a 10' dish; assuming that I could not find a good used one locally... I would drive to Florida to get one of the KTI's.
The market qualities of a C Band dish like the Orbitron 10 which came in many boxes; was UPS shippable (150); and cost factored as a mesh; received KU; and performed as if it was solid; been adhered; it has value even after shipping!
Though the demand is a very weak cash market; look at what is being sold new as C Band dish today and it could have Commercial value again. Nobody mentions that Cable TV is still the market; and the small cable companies are almost all gone; only a few conglomerates left. Most are small cable like Motel's and the like parks; where small dish modulates well and does not receive wind damages.
An Orbitron 10 would make that market it's own now!
Though the demand is a very weak cash market; look at what is being sold new as C Band dish today and it could have Commercial value again. Nobody mentions that Cable TV is still the market; and the small cable companies are almost all gone; only a few conglomerates left. Most are small cable like Motel's and the like parks; where small dish modulates well and does not receive wind damages.
An Orbitron 10 would make that market it's own now!
No instructions vs translated chinese instructions,,,no instructions is probably easier to understand
Even Sadouns 6 foot dish came with no instructions, just a one-sheet exploded view and that paper got shredded in shipping. I printed out two threads here at SatelliteGuys from others that had already put one together that had extensive photo's. I could have done it without them, but they sure made it easier.
To answer your question directly, I agree with what another poster said earlier in the thread: No matter how good the value is, that's a lot of money to spend on very short notice.
I'd like to add a couple more things to the discussion as well.
I live on a quarter-acre lot in a stereotypically suburban neighborhood. I have a 6' Sadoun dish in the backyard. There aren't any restrictive covenants against dishes here, but I don't know that I'd be comfortable having anything much bigger than this (we have a privacy fence that mostly hides this one.) I just feel like 10' would be too much. How much of a target market are you losing because either they feel the same as me, or they actually do have restrictive covenants that simply prevent them from having one at all?
If you want to talk about reaching out beyond big-time enthusiasts, you have to have the discussion about what there is to watch. On the FTA side, there's been a continuous stream of "oh no, another one has gone encrypted" over the last three years. That's not the direction you want things to be heading. On the pay side, getting started with HITS/SRL is definitely a challenge (I know because I've done it), and with no HD and no DVR, it's a pretty tough sell.
Related: I'm not sure if this is the perfect place to ask, but I don't know when I'll get a better chance. Brian, if you're reading this...as you are in my opinion the #1 guy who understands both the enthusiast and the business ends, do you think there will ever again be another C-Band pay/subscription service after all the 4DTVs die? I'll go ahead and say on the record that I don't believe Glen's new venture for one moment. I've never heard of anyone else in a business position (e.g. Tim at SRL) say anything about it.
I'd like to add a couple more things to the discussion as well.
I live on a quarter-acre lot in a stereotypically suburban neighborhood. I have a 6' Sadoun dish in the backyard. There aren't any restrictive covenants against dishes here, but I don't know that I'd be comfortable having anything much bigger than this (we have a privacy fence that mostly hides this one.) I just feel like 10' would be too much. How much of a target market are you losing because either they feel the same as me, or they actually do have restrictive covenants that simply prevent them from having one at all?
If you want to talk about reaching out beyond big-time enthusiasts, you have to have the discussion about what there is to watch. On the FTA side, there's been a continuous stream of "oh no, another one has gone encrypted" over the last three years. That's not the direction you want things to be heading. On the pay side, getting started with HITS/SRL is definitely a challenge (I know because I've done it), and with no HD and no DVR, it's a pretty tough sell.
Related: I'm not sure if this is the perfect place to ask, but I don't know when I'll get a better chance. Brian, if you're reading this...as you are in my opinion the #1 guy who understands both the enthusiast and the business ends, do you think there will ever again be another C-Band pay/subscription service after all the 4DTVs die? I'll go ahead and say on the record that I don't believe Glen's new venture for one moment. I've never heard of anyone else in a business position (e.g. Tim at SRL) say anything about it.
My turn!
I'm in a situation now where, after my interviews this coming week I may actually have a normal full-time job, fingers crossed! On the other hand, I'm about to start the planning of building a small house without a mortgage (yeah, I'm scared of my limited options out there)... so that means as much as I want to buy a big dish, I don't have the money or the location for it at the moment...
But here are the two major obstacles I can see from my standpoint. The first is the limited availability and logistics of obtaining some BUDS. Although some used C-band dishes could possibly be had locally, not everyone has the equipment to remove and especially to transport said dishes back to their homes. There's a dish on top of an abandoned fire station I'd like, but I'm not sure how much red tape through the county it would take to get the dish, and as it is roof-top mounted, that is going to be another difficult task. I know I don't want to go up there personally on that old roof and try to dismantle that thing -- plus they probably would need a specially licensed contractor to remove it, and I'd still have to find a way for them to transport it, hoping it's not all bent out of shape by the time it gets to me.
Delivery of a new dish to the home eliminates most everything I mentioned above. If it were a quality made dish by a trusted company, even better! But this is where cost begins to be a factor, our other obvious obstacle. A great Ku-band dish usually runs between 100 and 300 dollars. For C-band, $500 seems reasonable out of my wallet, but that barely pays for shipping in reality. $750 would probably be ok, if all the pieces and instructions are there, support brackets and all. As we drift towards $1,000, more than double what my wallet can take, I start laughing nervously. Don't get me wrong. $1K is great, especially for a high quality ten footer, compared to what original prices were then and with modern day inflation now. It would just take me a lot longer to save up for it, and I would hesitate every time I thought about buying it.
Yet that being said, I think I would be one of the oddballs who would prefer to shell out $1K for a quality made product delivered to my home, over trying to find a decent used BUD and worry about dismantling and transporting it without serious injury Ironically, I have no problem bargain-hunting Ku-band dishes, but those are easily stashed in the back seat or in the truck of most sedans. Not so much rust or metal ripping your carpet/seat to worry about, either. So I would be a potential customer that would need just a little bit of luring with breadcrumbs, but would likely make the purchase within 2 years.
Just out of curiosity, what sort of research has been done into engineering, design and manufacturing of C-band dishes in recent times? Any new developments? Are there wind-resistant high-tech materials that may cost more initially to produce, but are lighter weight and cheaper to ship? Does the 6 footer on an HH motor project still elude us? I suppose there has been nothing really groundbreaking lately or we would have heard it here first! haha!
I'm in a situation now where, after my interviews this coming week I may actually have a normal full-time job, fingers crossed! On the other hand, I'm about to start the planning of building a small house without a mortgage (yeah, I'm scared of my limited options out there)... so that means as much as I want to buy a big dish, I don't have the money or the location for it at the moment...
But here are the two major obstacles I can see from my standpoint. The first is the limited availability and logistics of obtaining some BUDS. Although some used C-band dishes could possibly be had locally, not everyone has the equipment to remove and especially to transport said dishes back to their homes. There's a dish on top of an abandoned fire station I'd like, but I'm not sure how much red tape through the county it would take to get the dish, and as it is roof-top mounted, that is going to be another difficult task. I know I don't want to go up there personally on that old roof and try to dismantle that thing -- plus they probably would need a specially licensed contractor to remove it, and I'd still have to find a way for them to transport it, hoping it's not all bent out of shape by the time it gets to me.
Delivery of a new dish to the home eliminates most everything I mentioned above. If it were a quality made dish by a trusted company, even better! But this is where cost begins to be a factor, our other obvious obstacle. A great Ku-band dish usually runs between 100 and 300 dollars. For C-band, $500 seems reasonable out of my wallet, but that barely pays for shipping in reality. $750 would probably be ok, if all the pieces and instructions are there, support brackets and all. As we drift towards $1,000, more than double what my wallet can take, I start laughing nervously. Don't get me wrong. $1K is great, especially for a high quality ten footer, compared to what original prices were then and with modern day inflation now. It would just take me a lot longer to save up for it, and I would hesitate every time I thought about buying it.
Yet that being said, I think I would be one of the oddballs who would prefer to shell out $1K for a quality made product delivered to my home, over trying to find a decent used BUD and worry about dismantling and transporting it without serious injury
Ironically, I have no problem bargain-hunting Ku-band dishes, but those are easily stashed in the back seat or in the truck of most sedans. Not so much rust or metal ripping your carpet/seat to worry about, either. So I would be a potential customer that would need just a little bit of luring with breadcrumbs, but would likely make the purchase within 2 years.Just out of curiosity, what sort of research has been done into engineering, design and manufacturing of C-band dishes in recent times? Any new developments? Are there wind-resistant high-tech materials that may cost more initially to produce, but are lighter weight and cheaper to ship? Does the 6 footer on an HH motor project still elude us? I suppose there has been nothing really groundbreaking lately or we would have heard it here first! haha!
I would of loved a 10 ft dish again. I couldn't afford a grand during the deal or now. I thought it was a good deal. I bought a used 8 ft dish last summer and that was tough to scrounge up that much money. $300.00. Dishes here in the Albuquerque/Rio Rancho area are very rare. I only know of one other dish here in the westside and thats on Unser in Albuquerque, There was a dish on a street called Paradise in ABQ/Rio Rancho border but that has been gone for a few years now.
Don't want to distract this excellent conversation on satellite dishes with controversy. If folks want to review history and restate their personal views, we might need to start another thread in the PIT... LOL!
I would support a company that provides affordable access to ala carte and HD content. We all know of several parties that have dreamed, pursued and started to open doors to provide subscription access to programming. I know that several of these attempts were undertaken by folks without a business plan or sustainable model. Other attempts have been limited by finacial backing and shifts in technology and distribution methods.Then there are are many folks out there that have some serious axes to grind and could doom any attempt that is undertaken. I really do not want to rehash these attempts and personalities in this thread, but any upstart will face some very serious obstacles.
Yes, using C-band to provide access to the programmers distribution content would generate consumer demand for the specific equipment endorsed, recommended or distributed by the subscription provider. The least expensive and best chance of a new DTH business model sustainability would be to repackage the available transmissions. This would remove the most expensive portion of the distribution, the satellite bandwidth. Unfortunately, I believe and fear that using C-band for a DTH service will severely limit the demographic, growth potential and ultimately be an Achilles heel. While I wish and dream of a new subscription method breathing new life into the big dish market, I honestly don't believe that the current attempts would significantly impact the distribution of a 8 or 12 foot mesh dish as discussed in this thread. My gut feeling is that the majority of subscribers to this type of subscription service would be to those with legacy gear.
I have an extra 10' mesh dish disassembled in my garage. After discovering what 6' dishes are capable of on C band, I never bothered to put it up. I don't recall what my 10' Unimesh cost when it was new in 1988 but I bet it was close to $1000.
Very few legacy mesh dishes remain in my area. I think when the 4DTV decline started a few years ago, most of the dishes came down.
Very few legacy mesh dishes remain in my area. I think when the 4DTV decline started a few years ago, most of the dishes came down.
With video streaming being so popular, I hardly use my FTA satellite dishes anymore. In fact, I recently threw one into the trash. 
I entered the FTA discussion today for the first time in many months.
I entered the FTA discussion today for the first time in many months.
wow! poor interest??.
..As we are mentioning everyday FTA is a Hobby. Is not for everyone. Since is not easy for everyone then, is not "promise good business". The Good Business are all FTA Testers community Only.. You and Myself and my friends..
I would like to thanks who dedicate their budget and time to invert in my Hobby..
Thanks
Vallenato
PD: At least I hope that the Providers are following this thread and they starts to take off the "code-encryption" to their Channels
...As we are mentioning everyday FTA is a Hobby. Is not for everyone. Since is not easy for everyone then, is not "promise good business". The Good Business are all FTA Testers community Only.. You and Myself and my friends..
I would like to thanks who dedicate their budget and time to invert in my Hobby..
Thanks
Vallenato
PD: At least I hope that the Providers are following this thread and they starts to take off the "code-encryption" to their Channels
I would love to get a nice big C-band dish, but I have nowhere to put one and it doesn't look like that will change any time soon.
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With video streaming being so popular, I hardly use my FTA satellite dishes anymore. In fact, I recently threw one into the trash.
I entered the FTA discussion today for the first time in many months.
Internet streaming video still has a long way to go before it can deliver rehearsals, pre-airs, sports, concerts and pay-per-views from around the world in Blu-ray quality.
...I hardly use my FTA satellite dishes anymore. In fact, I recently threw one into the trash.
Did we miss your offer to give it a new home?
In my opinion, financing would help more people buy a C-Band dish.
The upfront cost of $400 - $500 for an 8ft mesh dish is a lot of money for most people. If people could pay $20 per month for 20 months, there would probably be a lot more sales! Like car sales!
I noticed that ebay offers "6 months no payment -BillMeLater" for qualified buyers option on auctions. Something like that would definitely help with sales!
Occasionally, you'll see C-Band dishes listed on ebay. That's where I started to look for mine! Check ebay regularly and see if you can qualify for their "BillMeLater" program.
The upfront cost of $400 - $500 for an 8ft mesh dish is a lot of money for most people. If people could pay $20 per month for 20 months, there would probably be a lot more sales! Like car sales!
I noticed that ebay offers "6 months no payment -BillMeLater" for qualified buyers option on auctions. Something like that would definitely help with sales!
Occasionally, you'll see C-Band dishes listed on ebay. That's where I started to look for mine! Check ebay regularly and see if you can qualify for their "BillMeLater" program.
You guys are also forgetting why sales of C-Band dishes exploded in the 1980s - chipped boxes that could decode Videocipher!
If a decoder for Digicipher 2 appeared today, no doubt, C-Band dish sales would explode from perhaps 100 per year to 100,000 per year!
How do you guys think Charlie Ergen got so rich before starting Dish? Working at Frito Lays or counting cards?
If a decoder for Digicipher 2 appeared today, no doubt, C-Band dish sales would explode from perhaps 100 per year to 100,000 per year!
How do you guys think Charlie Ergen got so rich before starting Dish? Working at Frito Lays or counting cards?
Hilarious...When I bought a 6 footer from Sadoun about 6 yrs ago there was no instructions at all and when I contacted them they said they would send instructions....Get this!!! The instructions that I received were pics of damaged dish`s from Hurricane Katrina...LOL...was not funny then but I look how Sadouns joke of help made me do my own homework.
It appears that most everyone who wants a bud has one, some of us have more than one (myself included). The majority of people still don't know that fta exists and our mailboxes are flooded with advertisements for the alternatives. In reality the cost of a C/ku system (with a tek 2000 dish) is comparable to if not cheaper per channel than an ota system. Most people are not aware of ota ( how many of us got our free converter boxes when they were offered).
Quite honestly, it would be pretty hard to make a return on investment in manufacturing quality C-band satellite dishes for the residential market here in North America due to various factors which are more prevalent today than 20 years ago. These factors include:
- Increasing HOA restrictions in many locations prevents installing dishes larger than 1 meter in the U.S. or as small as 60 cm in Canada.
- New subdivision home lots in cities are a LOT smaller than what they used to be in the past.
- Increasing amount of TV content sources available such as DTH satellite and Internet streaming. Back in the 80's, there were no mini-dish DTH (Dish, Direct) or high speed broadband Internet to compete with. Either you had Antenna, Cable or C-band satellite. In many rural areas, Cable did not exist so C-band satellite was the only option for many of these people.
- As several newer alternative sources of TV now exist, many people consider C-band dishes as "obsolete". As most companies which used to specialize in C-band no longer exist, there is very little marketing done to showcase the value of a C-band system other than from specialized discussion forums on the Internet such as SatelliteGuys.us
- Limited amount of subscription programming available with only 60 channels remaining on the HITS TO HOME platform with no HD, PVR or even currently manufactured receivers available.
- Fair supply of quality used dishes in most areas available for free or almost free simply by dismantling and hauling it home.
- Companies such as Tek2000 importing cheap low grade Chinese mesh dishes.
- Increasing freight charges due to increasing fuel prices make shipping a substantial cost.
- A limited amount of satellite installers actually still know how to install and align C-band dishes and many installers who used to do C-band are now retired. People don't want to risk spending so much money on a C-band system if they are not even sure they will be able to get the dish installed as not everyone is capable of installing it themselves.
- The bigger the dish... the lower the WAF (Wife Acceptance Factor)!
Quite frankly, the only way to make money in manufacturing C-band dishes here in North America would be to target the commercial market. However, there are already a few established manufacturers focusing on supplying that market such as DH Satellite, Patriot and Prodelin so my gut feeling is that the commercial market is already well served and there's limited opportunity for any new player to enter the market.
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