DIRECTV unlikely to keep NFL Sunday Ticket

[NashGuy]

Who says that the winning bidder would be “sticking with the same product”? There’s been mention of possibly being able to offer single day subscriptions and single team season subscriptions…..

There are a lot of things Apple might want to change about NFLST but the NFL reportedly can't offer much flexibility given the contracts they already have in place with the rights-holders for in-market distribution of those games, CBS (Paramount) and Fox. One of the stipulations in place is that NFLST be "premium" priced. Which is why DTV charges $294 per season for it (or $396 for NLFST Max, which includes the Red Zone channel).

All of that is the upshot of the recent CNBC article about Apple's unhappiness with how NFLST is structured with all sorts of restrictions. But that's, of course, because NFLST is essentially just the NFL's doggy bag of leftovers that they're trying to sell to a deep-pocketed distributor for more than the product would ever fetch in direct revenue from consumers.

 

[NashGuy]

I don't think the other rights owners will allow that

Oh, there's *zero* chance that Apple or anyone else can get anything close to the MLS deal with the NFL deal this decade. Or probably even next decade, after the new set of NFL contracts lapse in 2033. The NFL likes spreading their content around among several big companies, so it's hard to see them ever striking an overall exclusive deal with any single company like MLS (a fledgling sports league) is doing with Apple.

 

[Bilbo1]

Oh, there's *zero* chance that Apple or anyone else can get anything close to the MLS deal with the NFL deal this decade. Or probably even next decade, after the new set of NFL contracts lapse in 2033. The NFL likes spreading their content around among several big companies, so it's hard to see them ever striking an overall exclusive deal with any single company like MLS (a fledgling sports league) is doing with Apple.

I think there is high likelihood that the current contract holder’s business models are quite different in 2033 from what they are today.

Heck, I think it’s more likely that one of the current contract holder’s default on their deal with the NFL during the course of the agreement than that all of them survive.

Fox could be ripe for a takeover to get their NFL rights - they seem to be Fox’s biggest asset. Maybe Paramount could be convinced to sell CBS’s over the next few years.

Many things are going to happen between now and 2033. This alone may be a reason for Apple to take a less than optimal deal.

But, this is still a few years away…

 

[meStevo]

View: https://twitter.com/bylindsayhjones/status/1582457708615467008


Looking forward to the deal getting done in the next few months and where the new provider can take it.

 

[Bruce]

View: https://twitter.com/bylindsayhjones/status/1582457708615467008


Looking forward to the deal getting done in the next few months and where the new provider can take it.

Found the whole thing-

On the new vision for out-of-town TV packages and NFL Sunday Ticket:
Rolapp: We’re excited about what we’re seeing in the marketplace about the future of Sunday Ticket. Sunday Ticket, for us, is a product that I think is ripe for innovation. I think we’re seeing a ton of interest in those rights from both traditional and new-age providers. While we want that product to be widely available, the only way to do that traditionally was satellite. Now with broadband and wireless networks, we can create the ubiquity in different ways. It has been the same product for the last two decades, but, when you get into digital, you can change a lot of that. So I think you’re going to see a ton of innovation and digital distribution. This [strategy] will be at the core and will be an important component as we move towards direct-to-consumer.

When we look at the totality of our rights and [our] businesses that aren’t locked up in long-term rights agreements, we look at them holistically. There’s a scenario where NFL Network, NFL RedZone, and NFL Sunday Ticket can be in one package but also a scenario where NFL Sunday Ticket can be separate from that. The objectives are to be in every household, innovation around the product, and make sure that NFL Sunday Ticket is still a premium viewing experience.

NFL’s Renie Anderson, Brian Rolapp Ponder the League’s Business Future

Even after 100 years, the National Football League continues to grow exponentially. Despite the COVID-19–ravaged season in 2020, viewers are ...

www.sportsvideo.org

I read that as Apple ( or whoever) got a lot or all of what it wants.

 

[Juan]

Found the whole thing-

On the new vision for out-of-town TV packages and NFL Sunday Ticket:
Rolapp: We’re excited about what we’re seeing in the marketplace about the future of Sunday Ticket. Sunday Ticket, for us, is a product that I think is ripe for innovation. I think we’re seeing a ton of interest in those rights from both traditional and new-age providers. While we want that product to be widely available, the only way to do that traditionally was satellite. Now with broadband and wireless networks, we can create the ubiquity in different ways. It has been the same product for the last two decades, but, when you get into digital, you can change a lot of that. So I think you’re going to see a ton of innovation and digital distribution. This [strategy] will be at the core and will be an important component as we move towards direct-to-consumer.

When we look at the totality of our rights and [our] businesses that aren’t locked up in long-term rights agreements, we look at them holistically. There’s a scenario where NFL Network, NFL RedZone, and NFL Sunday Ticket can be in one package but also a scenario where NFL Sunday Ticket can be separate from that. The objectives are to be in every household, innovation around the product, and make sure that NFL Sunday Ticket is still a premium viewing experience.

NFL’s Renie Anderson, Brian Rolapp Ponder the League’s Business Future

Even after 100 years, the National Football League continues to grow exponentially. Despite the COVID-19–ravaged season in 2020, viewers are ...

www.sportsvideo.org

I read that as Apple ( or whoever) got a lot or all of what it wants.

But they haven't signed a deal..its just a bunch of table scraps nobody wants

 

[Bruce]

But they haven't signed a deal..its just a bunch of table scraps nobody wants

Thanks for that Juan, by the way, did you not also predict the end of Netflix because they lost 1.7 million combined in the first two quarters of this year, today they announced 2.4 million new subs, so gained back what they lost and extra.

 

[Jimbo]

Who cares, no matter what you post about Amazon does not matter, NFLST is leaving DirecTV, they choose not to bid on it as they slowly wind down their business.

Right now, ST is available to only 9% of the United States Households, soon it will be available to 85% of Households, it is mathematical impossible that it will get the same or less subscribers then DirecTV, how many more we will soon find out.

ST is available to any one that can get D* ...
Are you trying to say that 91% of the USA can NOT get D* ?

 

[Jimbo]

View: https://twitter.com/AndrewMarchand/status/1582436509000814592?s=20&t=bZWUhWl--TZJiKTQzaXheg

Perfect, Right in the Middle of a Great day of College Football ....

Will the NFL Ever quit stepping on other(s) .....
They took the Thursday night, the College games usually put not Great games on Thursday now.
They stole Saturdays in late Dec and Jan.
The NFL already has 3 games on Thanksgiving Day, now they want Fri too.

 

[meStevo]

ST is available to any one that can get D* ...
Are you trying to say that 91% of the USA can NOT get D* ?

This is a point a few like to rehash and overlook the cost of DirecTV, or pretend DirecTV is free.

I want Sunday Ticket, I don't want to pay $2500+ a year (w/ a 2 year contract) for that option.

 

[Jimbo]

This is a point a few like to rehash and overlook the cost of DirecTV, or pretend DirecTV is free.

I want Sunday Ticket, I don't want to pay $2500+ a year for that option.

I don't want to have to pay Apple for something that I'll only use for 4 months a year.

If Apple does get it and requires the app, I pay for it at home, what happens when I go up to my cottage, can I log in on the cottage internet and watch my games ?

 

[meStevo]

I don't want to have to pay Apple for something that I'll only use for 4 months a year.

If Apple does get it and requires the app, I pay for it at home, what happens when I go up to my cottage, can I log in on the cottage internet and watch my games ?

Apple TV+, if required, is only $5 a month or $50 a year, with no contract. And you have access to your content wherever you can sign in -- be that phone, tablet, smart TV, wherever those devices may be (home, work, murder cabin, etc)

Ultimately that's their play. You're opening Apple TV+, to access the content (whether they require a sub remains to be seen) and oh look, there's a new season of Ted Lasso, maybe i'll check that out, and what's this, Jason Mamoa has a series I've never heard of? Oh and this is what Reese Witherspoon has been doing? I like space, what is this For All Mankind show about?

Same with Amazon, just different actors and titles.

Drives subscriber grown, brand value, retention, etc. Stuff it stopped doing and became unworkable for the satellite business model some time ago w/ their fee based methods of recouping their massive customer acquisition costs on top of programming licensing.

 

[slice1900]

So, as I say, I don't see any way that Apple could make enough via increased Apple TV+ subscriptions to offset the losses they'd take on NFLST itself.

I imagine they plan to make up most of the difference between what they pay the NFL and what they collect in NFLST subscriptions by advertising Apple products. Every NFLST subscriber would have an Apple ID, which is linked to all the Apple products you own. Apple would therefore know what Apple products each NFLST subscriber has, or if they have no Apple products, and could tailor their ads just based on that.

i.e. as an iPhone and Apple TV owner but not a Mac and Apple Watch owner, I might see ads for those products. Or if I hadn't just upgraded my iPhone last month, I'd see ads telling me how much better the iPhone 14 series is than the iPhone 11 Pro Max.

Someone who does not own any Apple products might see ads touting the advantages of iPhone over Android, maybe pushing the iPhone SE as a lower priced entry point into the iPhone world. Getting just one person to buy their first Apple product is worth a lot of money to Apple in future sales if they become long time Apple customers.

There is also a huge universe of possibilities for Apple to run third party ads for games on the App Store for iPhone/iPad owners - all your app purchases are linked to your Apple ID so they can tell if you have a lot of games what type of games you are interested in and so forth.

Apple ID would be great for them for targeted advertising, and they don't need to collect or use any personal info on you other than what is already linked to it via your existing relationship with Apple.

They have 1 or 2 minutes of local ad insertions per hour, so they could run 3-6 minutes of Apple ads per game. People watch these games live, so most would see these commercials rather than skip them like people with DVRs do or block or ignore them like they do ads on the web.

 

[Bruce]

ST is available to any one that can get D* ...
Are you trying to say that 91% of the USA can NOT get D* ?

I am saying that anyone that has it or wants it is getting less and less each day.

That is because the price is higher then all other TV Providers.

This is because the majority of content on all those channels ( this is true for all Traditional Providers) is reruns, people are now becoming conditioned to seeing reruns on services like Pluto, Tubi and etc for free and started to resent paying for them

This is because their equipment is getting older and slower, nothing new coming unless for the streaming side.

This is because people are getting tired of DVR/Box fees, DVRs are becoming obsolete in today’s on demand streaming world, same for box fees, in today’s world you do not have to pay extra for each TV to access content.

This is because you can get the vast majority of content on Traditional Channels plus all the exclusive content on streaming services for less then half the price of a average DirecTV monthly bill.

 

[Juan]

Thanks for that Juan, by the way, did you not also predict the end of Netflix because they lost 1.7 million combined in the first two quarters of this year, today they announced 2.4 million new subs, so gained back what they lost and extra.

Whatever please stay on topic and avoid personal attacks

 

[Jimbo]

This is a point a few like to rehash and overlook the cost of DirecTV, or pretend DirecTV is free.

I want Sunday Ticket, I don't want to pay $2500+ a year (w/ a 2 year contract) for that option.

Most don't get D* BECAUSE they want the ST.
They get D* because they like the service, ST is in addition to that.

When I got D*, it wasn't because I got to get ST, it was because the picture quality was far better than the Cable company ... also, it was priced accordingly (it was $40 p/m back then)
The fact that I could get the ST was a bonus ... or a reason to go the D* route vs the DISH route.

You say, but you have to pay all this money to get D*, well, you still had to pay for the cable TV sub awhile back too ... it wasn't free.

The internet isn't free either .... you also pay extra for unlimited data .... oh yes you do, just think how low your bill could be if not for the $15-$30 most add on for unlimited data.

 

[Bilbo1]

When I got D*, it wasn't because I got to get ST, it was because the picture quality was far better than the Cable company ... also, it was priced accordingly (it was $40 p/m back then)

Yeah, for me, that was in 2007 as DirecTV 10 satellite was coming online. Cable had all of 10 HD channels and D* was about to have something like 50. It was fun watching them grow the HD offerings over the years.

It was a good 10+ year run with them, but when they offered DirecTV Now for about $100/month less that my satellite bill for a package with all the channels I want, I made the switch. I remember waiting for the big DVR upgrade… I joined a couple of weeks too late to get it in beta.

Worst thing AT&T/D* did was change the DirecTV Now streaming model to mirror the satellite packages. Huge price hike. At that point, YouTube TV became the best option. That was about when PlayStation TV died.

The internet isn't free either .... you also pay extra for unlimited data .... oh yes you do, just think how low your bill could be if not for the $15-$30 most add on for unlimited data.

YouTube TV + internet combined is about $10 more than my last D* bill from around 2017. That’s for unlimited 1 GB internet. When I had D*, I was paying Spectrum something like $70 per month for internet. It’s speed was about 100 MB.

The teleco ran fiber here in the mid 2010s.

 

[Bruce]

Most don't get D* BECAUSE they want the ST.
They get D* because they like the service, ST is in addition to that.

Not talking about if you like DirecTV or not, but that you had to get DirecTV to get ST no matter what.

Next Year that will change.

When I got D*, it wasn't because I got to get ST, it was because the picture quality was far better than the Cable company ... also, it was priced accordingly (it was $40 p/m back then)

That time has certainly change ( and I had it back then also, along with the East and West Coast Networks, it was great pre-streaming).

You say, but you have to pay all this money to get D*, well, you still had to pay for the cable TV sub awhile back too ... it wasn't free.

Never posted about awhile back, talking about now where DirecTV is the most expensive Live TV Provider with old subpar equipment, no plans for the future, just hoping for a merger or winding down the clock.

The internet isn't free either .... you also pay extra for unlimited data .... oh yes you do, just think how low your bill could be if not for the $15-$30 most add on for unlimited data.

Why is the only argument against the high cost of Traditional Providers is the cost of internet.

85% of households have Broadband now, regardless of who (or if )your TV Provider is.

It is a necessity as far as our lives go, just like electricity, we need it, taxes, bill paying, banking, even reading the news, communicating with others, being able to get TV Programming is the bonus.

By the way, do all the above with just DirecTV and no internet, you cannot, but you can get free TV Programming via the internet.

The cost to me now is $99 to Spectrum for 1G/unlimited ( and I could save $30 to go to 400 down) and $70 for all the streaming services I have ( including HBO and Netflix), so $169 a month, how much do you pay a month for everything?

 

[SamCdbs]

Most don't get D* BECAUSE they want the ST.
They get D* because they like the service, ST is in addition to that.

When I got D*, it wasn't because I got to get ST, it was because the picture quality was far better than the Cable company ... also, it was priced accordingly (it was $40 p/m back then)

Correct. This is the flaw in the voodoo economics about this pent up demand for ST.

ST existed before “cord cutting/cord switching” existed. In other words in an era where “everybody” had either cable, DISH, or DirecTV. No one had any of the alternatives, because they did not yet exist.

And 6 or 8 or 20M people did not have ST, despite the posts above that predict these crazy numbers. About 2.5M is the most people have EVER paid for ST, even in an era where there was a “tri-opoly” for TV service.

So the number of potential ST subscribers is a known number. More or less the current number.

You say, but you have to pay all this money to get D*, well, you still had to pay for the cable TV sub awhile back too ... it wasn't free.

Of course. Yet in the era where almost everyone paid for TV service, ST got the same numbers as today.

The internet isn't free either .... you also pay extra for unlimited data .... oh yes you do, just think how low your bill could be if not for the $15-$30 most add on for unlimited data.

And this is the flaw in all of these big savings by “cord cutting” (the majority are really cord switching) arguments. It just assumes that unlimited HDTV streaming quality internet is a sunk cost that “everybody” just automatically pays for such internet like they automatically have electricity, water, and other utilities. They don’t. Many people, have no need of such internet speed and uncapped data levels, or of the internet at all, but for streaming. Thus the cost of internet service is a part of the cost of streaming. And when you add that in, the supposed savings are shown to be far less.

 

[Bruce]

So the number of potential ST subscribers is a known number. More or less the current number.

Of course. Yet in the era where almost everyone paid for TV service, ST got the same numbers as today.

It is not a known number, DirecTV at it’s high had 21 million subscribers ( out of 100 million total Live TV subscribers pre streaming), so 79 million could not subscribe to it, no idea how many would, but obviously some of them if they could.

And this is the flaw in all of these big savings by “cord cutting” (the majority are really cord switching) arguments.

No the majority that left Traditional Providers is not cord switching, at it highest ( pre-streaming) it was at 100 million, now at 68 million including YTTV, Hulu Live, etc, which leaves 32 million at least without a Live TV Service.

It just assumes that unlimited HDTV streaming quality internet is a sunk cost that “everybody” just automatically pays for such internet like they automatically have electricity, water, and other utilities. They don’t. Many people, have no need of such internet speed and uncapped data levels, or of the internet at all, but for streaming. Thus the cost of internet service is a part of the cost of streaming. And when you add that in, the supposed savings are shown to be far less.

Here via Spectrum, the slowest speed they offer is 100 down at $50, next step up is 400 down for $10 more, which is perfect for streaming, I know I do not need 1000 down, but I like having it.

So if I had 400 down plus all the streaming services I have, that is only $130 a month which is about the same price as a DirecTV bill only, the upgrade to 1G down is $40 more.

No data cap.