Directv is imploding and is trying to take Dish down with them.

[slice1900]

There would be some operational efficiencies to be gained, plus greater negotiating power with the networks due to a larger subscriber base. But the real motivation for a merger would be to eliminate your only direct nationwide competitor so that you could raise your margins per subscriber. That, of course, is why the two weren't allowed to merge way back when but given how the business has changed -- there are now lots of direct and indirect video subscription competitors on the internet -- it's possible that the government would allow a merger in a few years if satellite subscriber numbers continue to plummet. That would obviously stink for consumers who have no other choice for pay TV than DTV and Dish. But that number is only ever going to decrease.

The only operational efficiencies are what I listed - back office stuff like billing, customer service, and advertising. You don't save any money on anything else because you'd have to maintain both companies' infrastructure as far as satellites, broadcast centers, and equipment for many years because switching customers out would be extremely expensive and time consuming (that's why Directv has waited so long to drop MPEG2 SD - even though they were down to ~5 million SD subscribers in 2013 which is half the number of Dish subscribers) By the time you could merge that infrastructure, at best you'd enjoy a few years of savings from a merged company before the business was no longer viable.

Yes you could charge more without any satellite competition, but only to the extent you are willing to lose everyone who has a choice. Directv is already the most expensive MVPD, how much more room for price increases do you really think they have?

I agree that the government would almost certainly let a merger go through today, since the competitive landscape has changed so much. That doesn't make it a good idea.

 

[Tampa8]

43,000 GB used? Did I read that right on my phone?

What the heck are you down or uploading ?

What happens on smartphones stays on smartphones.... till they are hacked of course.

 

[NashGuy]

The only operational efficiencies are what I listed - back office stuff like billing, customer service, and advertising. You don't save any money on anything else because you'd have to maintain both companies' infrastructure as far as satellites, broadcast centers, and equipment for many years because switching customers out would be extremely expensive and time consuming (that's why Directv has waited so long to drop MPEG2 SD - even though they were down to ~5 million SD subscribers in 2013 which is half the number of Dish subscribers) By the time you could merge that infrastructure, at best you'd enjoy a few years of savings from a merged company before the business was no longer viable.

Yeah, that's probably all pretty much true.

Yes you could charge more without any satellite competition, but only to the extent you are willing to lose everyone who has a choice. Directv is already the most expensive MVPD, how much more room for price increases do you really think they have?

I agree that the government would almost certainly let a merger go through today, since the competitive landscape has changed so much. That doesn't make it a good idea.

Well, first off, just because I make an argument that I think something is plausible or likely to happen in the future, it does NOT mean that I'm in favor of it or think it would be good for consumers or the general public.

I think DTV and Dish both realize that the future of their satellite MVPDs will mainly be to serve those who have no other choice besides satellite TV. And if there was only one satellite TV provider, they could obviously increase prices somewhat. What else would folks do? Settle for whatever free TV they might get OTA? Just watch video on discs? If DTV and Dish merged, I could imagine them doing away with promotional pricing for new subscribers for the first 12 or 24 months and maybe dispensing with free installation too. Already, AT&T appears to be signaling that they are going to crack down on promos and discounts for loyal customers who are out of contract, in order to make the service more profitable. How much further would such steps go if they didn't have to worry about customers switching to Dish?

 

[Juan]

Yeah, that's probably all pretty much true.



Well, first off, just because I make an argument that I think something is plausible or likely to happen in the future, it does NOT mean that I'm in favor of it or think it would be good for consumers or the general public.

I think DTV and Dish both realize that the future of their satellite MVPDs will mainly be to serve those who have no other choice besides satellite TV. And if there was only one satellite TV provider, they could obviously increase prices somewhat. What else would folks do? Settle for whatever free TV they might get OTA? Just watch video on discs? If DTV and Dish merged, I could imagine them doing away with promotional pricing for new subscribers for the first 12 or 24 months and maybe dispensing with free installation too. Already, AT&T appears to be signaling that they are going to crack down on promos and discounts for loyal customers who are out of contract, in order to make the service more profitable. How much further would such steps go if they didn't have to worry about customers switching to Dish?

Did anybody expect satellite to be this popular in 1980?.... everybody knew about c band but ka and ku were unheard of...lets face facts..cellular internet is at the same stage that cband was in the 80s...its out there but not extremly popular...if there is money to be made someone will find a way to get it rural customers

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[NashGuy]

Did anybody expect satellite to be this popular in 1980?.... everybody knew about c band but ka and ku were unheard of...lets face facts..cellular internet is at the same stage that cband was in the 80s...its out there but not extremly popular...if there is money to be made someone will find a way to get it rural customers

Yes, definitely. In a bid to get their merger with Sprint approved, T-Mobile is saying that the combined company will offer home broadband to the vast majority of the US, including about 96% of rural Americans, by 2024. They're going to launch it as a pilot service this year on 4G LTE but the hardware will be upgradable to support their various 5G frequencies if the merger goes through and they get serious about rolling it out broadly.

T-Mobile to Pilot Fixed Wireless Home Broadband Service Using 4G

If the merger falls through, T-Mo is saying they won't do much with home broadband, but who knows. They're obviously using it as a selling point to try to get the Feds to approve the deal. If the merger is killed, I expect T-Mo to buy up a lot of the spectrum that Dish is currently sitting on, which would save Dish from spending billions to build their own 5G network. (And having that additional spectrum might put T-Mo back in the home broadband/TV game.) But if no buyer materializes, then Dish will have to build a nationwide network or lose the valuable spectrum licenses. I used to think that would never happen but then I read the article below and now think, "Well, maybe..."

Dish Network Aspires to Be America's Rakuten in 5G | Light Reading

 

[nelson61]

Yeah, that's probably all pretty much true.



Well, first off, just because I make an argument that I think something is plausible or likely to happen in the future, it does NOT mean that I'm in favor of it or think it would be good for consumers or the general public.

I think DTV and Dish both realize that the future of their satellite MVPDs will mainly be to serve those who have no other choice besides satellite TV. And if there was only one satellite TV provider, they could obviously increase prices somewhat. What else would folks do? Settle for whatever free TV they might get OTA? Just watch video on discs? If DTV and Dish merged, I could imagine them doing away with promotional pricing for new subscribers for the first 12 or 24 months and maybe dispensing with free installation too. Already, AT&T appears to be signaling that they are going to crack down on promos and discounts for loyal customers who are out of contract, in order to make the service more profitable. How much further would such steps go if they didn't have to worry about customers switching to Dish?

DirecTV and Dish are an oligopoly.

If they were combined they would be a monopoly, minimize customer aquisition costs and raise prices.

Instead they follow the oligopoly model where in a limited supplier market, if one lowers prices , the other follows and if one raises prices , the other does not, all with the intent of maintaining market share.

So, they quickly learn to do nothing (stagnate) while they sit and watch the other guy as other technologies eat their lunch.

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[Ronnie-]

DirecTV and Dish are an oligopoly.

If they were combined they would be a monopoly, minimize customer aquisition costs and raise prices.

Instead they follow the oligopoly model where in a limited supplier market, if one lowers prices , the other follows and if one raises prices , the other does not, all with the intent of maintaining market share.

So, they quickly learn to do nothing (stagnate) while they sit and watch the other guy as other technologies eat their lunch.

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Except, they both raise prices in tune with everyone else.

 

[Claude Greiner]

Any merger or buyout where 1 provider buys out an area served by the same area is bad.

Only good merger was spectrum, as it was 3 companies combined in 1.

 

[Juan]

Any merger or buyout where 1 provider buys out an area served by the same area is bad.

Only good merger was spectrum, as it was 3 companies combined in 1.

* unless you live in upstate ny

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[NashGuy]

Any merger or buyout where 1 provider buys out an area served by the same area is bad.

Only good merger was spectrum, as it was 3 companies combined in 1.

Cable company mergers, such as Spectrum (Charter + Time Warner Cable + Brighthouse), or all of the smaller acquisitions that Comcast has made over the past few decades, have never been too controversial, since cable companies always operate in separate areas and do not directly compete with each other. So when those three systems joined together to form Spectrum, it didn't actually remove any real competition from the market -- hardly any homes had a choice between, say, Charter and Time Warner Cable before the merger. In all but a very few addresses, there's only one cable company offering service there.

 

[EarDemon]

* unless you live in upstate ny

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BS! Charter is doing wonders here. It's just the idiots who live in this state are too blind, stupid and filled with hate for cable companies to see.

Time Warner starting speed - 15 Mb / Time Warner fastest speed - 50 Mb
Charter starting speed - 100 Mb / Charter fastest speed - 940 Mb
Charter no modem rental fees / Time Warner $10 modem rental fee
Charter deployed DOCSIS 3.1 aggressively throughout their entire footprint /Time Warner tried to push D3 to it's limits with Maxx


Under TWC the fastest speed option they offered in Upstate NY was 50 Mb since 2010. Time Warner launched Project Maxx in big markets bring it up to 300 Mb, with the plans to bring it to their entire service footprint. The Maxx upgrades were pushed back at least 3 times in my area. Just over 2 years after Time Warner Cable ceased to exist Charter brought in 940 in my area. Had Charter not purchased Time Warner I probably would have been stuck at 50 for a few more years, then eventually bumped to 300, where it would stay for even longer.

I have very little confidence that if Time Warner was still be around I would have anywhere close to this:

 

[NYDutch]

BS! Charter is doing wonders here. It's just the idiots who live in this state are too blind, stupid and filled with hate for cable companies to see.

Tell that to the thousands of upstate people still waiting for the cable build out they were promised so Charter could get the merger approval.

 

[Claude Greiner]

I will agree, charter simplified the process.

We used to sell Time Warner, it’s like night and day now that it’s spectrum

 

[slice1900]

Except, they both raise prices in tune with everyone else.

Because they are subject to the same yearly cost increases for content everyone else is. It isn't a giant conspiracy, and they aren't padding their profit with the yearly price increases.

 

[slice1900]

If DTV and Dish merged, I could imagine them doing away with promotional pricing for new subscribers for the first 12 or 24 months and maybe dispensing with free installation too. Already, AT&T appears to be signaling that they are going to crack down on promos and discounts for loyal customers who are out of contract, in order to make the service more profitable. How much further would such steps go if they didn't have to worry about customers switching to Dish?

IMHO, I think free installation of satellite might be gone by this time next year. Once they have the 'Directv via IP' product up and running smoothly, which costs them basically zero for install (just the cost to ship C71s to your house) they won't have any reason for satellite installs to be free any longer. And eventually I expect they will stop doing installs altogether, it'll go back to how it used to be where you self-install or call one of the third parties they will provide you contact information for.

 

[lparsons21]

Because they are subject to the same yearly cost increases for content everyone else is. It isn't a giant conspiracy, and they aren't padding their profit with the yearly price increases.

Correct. And the streaming cable/sat replacement services will do the same as the cable/sat companies have. And if you want plenty of channels and not the relatively skinny bundles the replacement services are using, the cost of the subscription will be the same or nearly so.

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[EarDemon]

Tell that to the thousands of upstate people still waiting for the cable build out they were promised so Charter could get the merger approval.

As usual in this not so business friendly state, the state government wants to dictate how businesses run themselves, tax them to death and/or regulate them to death. The state had no business with imposing those regulations to begin with, just more of NY sticking their corrupt noses where they don't belong. Businesses cannot be bullied by the corrupt establishment in Albany.

 

[NYDutch]

As usual in this not so business friendly state, the state government wants to dictate how businesses run themselves, tax them to death and/or regulate them to death. The state had no business with imposing those regulations to begin with, just more of NY sticking their corrupt noses where they don't belong. Businesses cannot be bullied by the corrupt establishment in Albany.

Charter didn't have to agree to the terms now, did they... This is getting into Pit material though, so I'll bow out...

 

[raoul5788]

Charter didn't have to agree to the terms now, did they... This is getting into Pit material though, so I'll bow out...

Indeed it is. Let's make sure to keep politics out. Thanks!

 

[Juan]

Correct. And the streaming cable/sat replacement services will do the same as the cable/sat companies have. And if you want plenty of channels and not the relatively skinny bundles the replacement services are using, the cost of the subscription will be the same or nearly so.

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I shouldn't go here but I will..it is much easier to pirate a stream vs a satellite signal...most streaming devices don't have smart cards

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