Digibitalbits picks a winner
- Thread starter JoeSp
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Those that are calling Bill Hunt a hack or a clueless old web guy might want to go back and check his track record. I don't think his word is gospel but he's been right a whole lot more than he's been wrong.
Bill has several contacts with different manufacturers in the industry and the majority of his contacts are saying they're either against HD-DVD or against HD media in general. If that truly is the case, I agree with him. How could any format survive without the support of the majority of the manufacturers (not to mention studios) in the industry?
IMHO there are only 2 reasons why HD-DVD is even still around:
1) Player pricing and marketing from Toshiba. Toshiba has done an incredible job of staying on top of changes in the "war" and marketing their products very effectively. Their push out of the gate left BD temporarily in the dust.
2) Universal. Not only is Universal HDDVD exclusive, they're cranking out good titles like no other company right now.
The problem with the two strengths above is that they can both be easily overcome. What happens if BD players come to within $100 of HDDVD players this holiday season? So much for the cheaper player argument. What happens if/when BD studios actually start releasing some decent titles? Frankly I can't believe BD even has a lead in overall disc sales given the huge amount of quality titles they haven't touched. All you have to do is take a look at the sales figures of Disney platinum series dvd's to see the potential there.
I own both formats and enjoy them both a lot. Both look and sound great IMHO. But when I look at the number of manufacturers and studios that do not support HD-DVD it's very difficult to predict a win in their favor.
Bill has several contacts with different manufacturers in the industry and the majority of his contacts are saying they're either against HD-DVD or against HD media in general. If that truly is the case, I agree with him. How could any format survive without the support of the majority of the manufacturers (not to mention studios) in the industry?
IMHO there are only 2 reasons why HD-DVD is even still around:
1) Player pricing and marketing from Toshiba. Toshiba has done an incredible job of staying on top of changes in the "war" and marketing their products very effectively. Their push out of the gate left BD temporarily in the dust.
2) Universal. Not only is Universal HDDVD exclusive, they're cranking out good titles like no other company right now.
The problem with the two strengths above is that they can both be easily overcome. What happens if BD players come to within $100 of HDDVD players this holiday season? So much for the cheaper player argument. What happens if/when BD studios actually start releasing some decent titles? Frankly I can't believe BD even has a lead in overall disc sales given the huge amount of quality titles they haven't touched. All you have to do is take a look at the sales figures of Disney platinum series dvd's to see the potential there.
I own both formats and enjoy them both a lot. Both look and sound great IMHO. But when I look at the number of manufacturers and studios that do not support HD-DVD it's very difficult to predict a win in their favor.
What i think is funny is the idea that DVD SALES is what is going to decide this....
I do not buy DVD's...I rent them.....and there are many many people just like me. In fact I would guess that MOST consumers dont have some large DVD library like many here act or think.
Based on this it is the cost of the player that will decide.... IMO....
I do not buy DVD's...I rent them.....and there are many many people just like me. In fact I would guess that MOST consumers dont have some large DVD library like many here act or think.
Based on this it is the cost of the player that will decide.... IMO....
Hmmm, could it be since they sold over 100,000 of them some time ago they've been able to drastically reduce costs through mass production?
No, they're leaving it up to the Chinese to jump into the "bargain basement price boat". Meanwhile, Onkyo is announcing their high end HD DVD player:
Onkyo DV-HD805 HD DVD Player
Onkyo has been a member of the HD DVD Promotion Group since before the format’s launch last April. They are now trickling out details on their upcoming DV-HD805 HD DVD player. The unit is based on Toshiba’s flagship player the HD-XA2. We expect the player to have HDMI 1.3 as well as DTS-HD Master Audio support (no word on decoding in player). Look for a ship date in the fall.
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Hmmm, could it be since they sold over 100,000 of them some time ago they've been able to drastically reduce costs through mass production?
No, they're leaving it up to the Chinese to jump into the "bargain basement price boat". Meanwhile, Onkyo is announcing their high end HD DVD player:
Onkyo DV-HD805 HD DVD Player
Onkyo has been a member of the HD DVD Promotion Group since before the format’s launch last April. They are now trickling out details on their upcoming DV-HD805 HD DVD player. The unit is based on Toshiba’s flagship player the HD-XA2. We expect the player to have HDMI 1.3 as well as DTS-HD Master Audio support (no word on decoding in player). Look for a ship date in the fall.
So, let me get this straight, the best example of CE support HD DVD can muster is a rebadged Toshiba XA2?
I think this is the crux of why I have to disagree with you. Both formats offer virtually the same product, but one offers it at a fraction of the cost. The only thing preventing consumers from choosing the lowest bidder are the BD proselytizers, whose arguments unfortunately scare early adopters from picking the option that would allow for widespread HD adoption. I am for whichever company offers the best bang for your buck. That is a pro-consumer viewpoint rather than a pro-corporate viewpoint.
Region coding is available but not turned on. It is at the studio's discretion to enable region coding. BD+ will be crackable, despite lip service to the contrary. The point is if people want to pirate, they will. If HD-DVD came out the winner, Disney would have no choice but to release to HD-DVD. Why? Because they are not stupid and they like money.
Nothing is preventing studios from using dual layer HD 30GB discs. Also, there are many HD-DVD discs that have long duration films (Kong) with amazing quality in sound and video.
BD releases and HD-DVD releases are mostly identical in terms of video quality. The bitrate capabilities of BD are unneeded. If Sony wants this to make a difference, then why don't they produce a title that uses the spec to demonstrate a discernable benefit to the consumer?
BD title sales are easily outstripping HD-DVD same title sales. And here I will drop the gauntlet and we will use the MATRIX as the cross to bear. The Matrix hit HD-DVD first -- that means that it will be coming later to BD. My guess is around XMAS or the first quarter of 2008. My gauntlet is to bet that The Matrix in first month sales to first month sales will easily outstrip HD-DVD sales of the same title for the same period of time. Four simple weeks -- that is it. The bet is -- a Coke Cola - of course. I prefer Dr. Pepper.
First of all, I think the Matrix hasn't sold quite as well because the only desirable part of the set is the first movie. But enough of that. I wouldn't be surprised if BD does win, but I think it's a big mistake if it does. It's going to force a lot of potential HD customers to wait even longer because of the higher entry cost. If customers just wised up and recognized that they have the power to change the studio's minds, then we could all start enjoying that big movie library much sooner.
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"Region coding is available but not turned on. It is at the studio's discretion to enable region coding."
No, I don't think so. That was dropped. If someone later tried to produce regional coding on HD DVD, current players would not see it. It would require a change in the spec.
But I do find it interesting that Disney, which left HD DVD at least in part due to the lack of regional coding, did not region code Pirates. Most interesting. I can't help but think the studios are waiting for BD+, and perhaps the new BD-J specs of 10/31, to really start pumping out product.
Last I've seen, each month less than a half million high def discs are sold- that's both formats combined. While over 100 million DVDs are sold. Game ain't even close to being over.
No, I don't think so. That was dropped. If someone later tried to produce regional coding on HD DVD, current players would not see it. It would require a change in the spec.
But I do find it interesting that Disney, which left HD DVD at least in part due to the lack of regional coding, did not region code Pirates. Most interesting. I can't help but think the studios are waiting for BD+, and perhaps the new BD-J specs of 10/31, to really start pumping out product.
Last I've seen, each month less than a half million high def discs are sold- that's both formats combined. While over 100 million DVDs are sold. Game ain't even close to being over.
It is interesting that Disney decided not to use region coding. Anyway, you may be right on the hd-dvd region coding issue. It's possible I'm mistaken on that, so I'll have to look into it. But if it is true that region coding is simply disabled, then I still view that as a plus for the consumer. That would make a lot of happy consumers of those interested in anime, rare foreign re-issues, and government-banned films. Just one more plus to the HD-DVD side if you ask me. It supports the underground, and add being able to burn HD to a DVD-R as a plus to that point.
No, I'm pretty sure "Amir", a Microsoft "insider" & VP who post on AVS said that region coding for HD DVD came to a vote before the DVD Forum and no one supported it (with BD aligned companies abstaining), and so it was left out of the spec. It would take a new vote to add it to the specs and current players would not support it.
But, as pointed out - Disney, who supposedly insists on regional coding, has not even made use of the regional coding available on BD. So, I don't think it's much of an issue.
Problem is, hardly anyone ever upgrades firmware on a DVD player, and HD-DVD & blu-ray won't be any different.
As for Disney not using regional coding on Pirates, I think they're holding regional coding for the animated classics, as those tend to be released in the different countries on different schedules and go into the "vault" at times, unlike Pirates which was released everywhere and will never go into the "vault".
Most of the latest HDDVD releases have an insert informing you that the disc requires the latest firmware in order to play the disc.
King Kong is one such disc and was the one that caused me to upgrade my firmware. I have kept it current since.
I believe it was Amir on AVS that said it was left out but would only require a firmware upgrade to activate. I could be wrong. I prefer it not to be on so I can order the BD exclusives and other unreleased HDDVDs from other parts of the world.
Not true for HD DVD players. Firmware upgrades on HD DVD players have been a regular occurance. And a must if you want new features. I think Ive had at least 3 or 4. They are as simple as going to the menu and hitting download.
Yep. I guess the days of "turnkey" stable electronics, at least for video, are over.
And how many Joe 6-Packs out there are going to do that for a DVD player (glorified VCR)?
I bet 9 out of 10 players will never be hooked up to the internet or have a firmware disc inserted.
Yep. Unless the pain pushes them. Some releases simply won't play without an upgrade. Those that don't have a network to plug into easily, & that's most, will have to get a disk to upgrade. Maybe that's what the Blu-ray camp had in mind. I still prefer to upgrade via internet.
And those that get discs that won't play will probably take the disc back to the store and complain the disc doesn't work.
I personally prefer upgrading via the internet and keeping firmware up to date. But most people don't even know what firmware is.
