Bill Hunt Picks The Winner
- Thread starter Jamey K
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I'd prefer HD-DVD to win, but I don't think it's going to. There are some rather small advantages to Blu-ray winning.
-Storage advantage
-Legacy of the piracy of Playstation titles continued
-Some negligible sound differences I can't hear because I won't be dropping dough on a new receiver
...
and that's about it
The studio debate was entirely moot, because studios eventually released the Betamax and Divx titles onto the more popular formats. No company is stupid enough to just sit around and pray that people will buy the other format just so they can watch X studio's movie. VCD's were distributed in Asia even though they were an unpopular format in the US. Formats can coexist in different markets and studios will try their best to please all markets.
Just because BD might win the format war doesn't necessarily mean it won on the basis of undeniably superior merits. Most agree that they are essentially similar in almost all respects. Similar codecs, similar blue-laser technology, and mostly similar product quality. But the main difference isn't technology or quality, it's price. That alone makes HD-DVD the more attractive contender of the two. HOWEVER, It's the almost zealot-like promotion from the BD camp, and the marketing muscle of Sony (I haven't yet seen an ad for HD-DVD) that will ultimately put the final nails in the coffin of HD-DVD.
Truthfully, I shouldn't really care. Que sera, sera. BD players will eventually come down in price. But it's sad that most of us are avoiding HD now just because of the threat that many people's investments might flop to a more expensive product with no significant benefit over HD-DVD.
Sound? Meh. Most who undergo a double-blind test can't tell the difference between a 160 encoded mp3 and a CD.
Picture? No difference.
Extras? IME has the edge over an unproven BD-Java.
Look, I'm not saying BD is no good. In many ways I'm sure it is just as good as, and will definitely surpass HDDVD in the future. But let's be realistic, both formats given the chance can develop into better formats. Just look at the evolution of DVD. I just think people are ready to line Sony's pockets just to end this thing. Beyond all the rhetoric, that may be the only point that makes sense.
-Storage advantage
-Legacy of the piracy of Playstation titles continued
-Some negligible sound differences I can't hear because I won't be dropping dough on a new receiver
...
and that's about it
The studio debate was entirely moot, because studios eventually released the Betamax and Divx titles onto the more popular formats. No company is stupid enough to just sit around and pray that people will buy the other format just so they can watch X studio's movie. VCD's were distributed in Asia even though they were an unpopular format in the US. Formats can coexist in different markets and studios will try their best to please all markets.
Just because BD might win the format war doesn't necessarily mean it won on the basis of undeniably superior merits. Most agree that they are essentially similar in almost all respects. Similar codecs, similar blue-laser technology, and mostly similar product quality. But the main difference isn't technology or quality, it's price. That alone makes HD-DVD the more attractive contender of the two. HOWEVER, It's the almost zealot-like promotion from the BD camp, and the marketing muscle of Sony (I haven't yet seen an ad for HD-DVD) that will ultimately put the final nails in the coffin of HD-DVD.
Truthfully, I shouldn't really care. Que sera, sera. BD players will eventually come down in price. But it's sad that most of us are avoiding HD now just because of the threat that many people's investments might flop to a more expensive product with no significant benefit over HD-DVD.
Sound? Meh. Most who undergo a double-blind test can't tell the difference between a 160 encoded mp3 and a CD.
Picture? No difference.
Extras? IME has the edge over an unproven BD-Java.
Look, I'm not saying BD is no good. In many ways I'm sure it is just as good as, and will definitely surpass HDDVD in the future. But let's be realistic, both formats given the chance can develop into better formats. Just look at the evolution of DVD. I just think people are ready to line Sony's pockets just to end this thing. Beyond all the rhetoric, that may be the only point that makes sense.
"... HOWEVER, It's the almost zealot-like promotion from the BD camp, ..."
You do understand- to many, the statement above is quite true if you replace "BD" with "HD-DVD"
You do understand- to many, the statement above is quite true if you replace "BD" with "HD-DVD"
Yes, but because BD isn't that much better than HD-DVD, it seems BD zealots have more to prove with the cost being higher. In the opposite configuration it would seem that this would only make sense if the HD-DVD camp were trying to prove technological superiority over the BD camp. The only reasonable defense of HD-DVD relies on the fact that it isn't much different from BD in terms of quality, and that its hardware price point is lower.
The HD-DVD zealots are likely to promote the codec argument, which isn't true anymore for the majority of releases. Due to the techie knowledge requirement to understanding the issue, and its current irrelevance, I don't see that point winning too much. The BD zealots use the studio argument, which is moot because the studios would go after whatever format proves more popular. But I see the studio argument winning more customers at the real trenches of the format war.. consumer electronics stores.
After the CD Rootkit debacle, Sony is the last company I want to be safeguarding my fair use rights. The lack of region coding for HD DVD ensures that I can always go overseas to get a title that is unavailable here. The interactivity advantages may or not become dealbreakers, but they were enough to sway Microsoft and HP to support them.
From a sheer usability standpoint, HD DVD wins with the lack of region coding, a cheaper cost (both hardware and software), and the bang for the buck award with the potential enhancements. Right now, the biggest BD advantages are based on the constraint of supply. If you want James Bond or Star Wars, they've got a gun to your head, or you live with standard DVD. Fox might cave, but only if they saw 60% of the next gen DVD revenue being left on the table. Right now, it's a dead heat when you compare the last twelve months, but BD has a 60/40 lead when only 2007 is compared (based on DVD Empires sales chart, the only one for which I can find hard data). BD has had numerous new titles, while HD DVD has pretty much only had The Departed and Babel,... hardly doorbusters....
From a sheer usability standpoint, HD DVD wins with the lack of region coding, a cheaper cost (both hardware and software), and the bang for the buck award with the potential enhancements. Right now, the biggest BD advantages are based on the constraint of supply. If you want James Bond or Star Wars, they've got a gun to your head, or you live with standard DVD. Fox might cave, but only if they saw 60% of the next gen DVD revenue being left on the table. Right now, it's a dead heat when you compare the last twelve months, but BD has a 60/40 lead when only 2007 is compared (based on DVD Empires sales chart, the only one for which I can find hard data). BD has had numerous new titles, while HD DVD has pretty much only had The Departed and Babel,... hardly doorbusters....
s8ist:
The storage advantage for ROM playback of movies is essentially negated by the use of advanced codecs.
The sound differences can be summed in one word: Nill.
Cheers,
The storage advantage for ROM playback of movies is essentially negated by the use of advanced codecs.
The sound differences can be summed in one word: Nill.
Cheers,
A little off topic, but hopefully an enjoyable break from arguing about Blu-ray / Hd DVD . . . .
What was so great about Laserdiscs? The resolution was still only 480, right? (Not sure if it was 480i or 480p). Was the bitrate higher because of the additinal storage capacity, resulting in better video quality. Kind of like Superbit DVD?
It preceded DVD. Much better than VHS, much better sound (Dolby Digital 5.1 vs. matrix surround).
There were also no tapes to degrade, no rewinding, and they were easily copied when you needed to.... You could fast forward through any message (especially the anti pirate warnings). Also, since it was considered an enthusiast's media, the special editions were truly special. Entire movie scripts, hours of behind the scenes documentaries. Audio commentaries that were REALLY candid (Sean Connery did one for Goldfinger that was so candid, he ripped a bunch of people... they wound up killing the disc after it slipped by the execs... sending the value of the original through the roof). When you could only get the Star Wars movies on VHS, you could import the Phantom Menace from Japan to see it with decent video and amazing sound.... Of course we were paying $100 for these discs...
There were also no tapes to degrade, no rewinding, and they were easily copied when you needed to.... You could fast forward through any message (especially the anti pirate warnings). Also, since it was considered an enthusiast's media, the special editions were truly special. Entire movie scripts, hours of behind the scenes documentaries. Audio commentaries that were REALLY candid (Sean Connery did one for Goldfinger that was so candid, he ripped a bunch of people... they wound up killing the disc after it slipped by the execs... sending the value of the original through the roof). When you could only get the Star Wars movies on VHS, you could import the Phantom Menace from Japan to see it with decent video and amazing sound.... Of course we were paying $100 for these discs...
I personally do not see any differances in PQ nor sound right now between HD-DVD and BD. What I see is a $499 HD-DVD player from Toshiba that is going to be joined by a $599 BD player from Sony. Price is basically negated. However, I see the future of HD-DVD movies being more expensive then BD because of Universal using Combo discs for their releases and Warner using THD discs for their releases.
Also, you absolutely can not neglet Buena Vista (Disney) backing BD. When Mom and Dad go into the store looking for a HD movie format that will fit the kids BD is going to be the only game in town. This is the mountain that HD-DVD has to climb. I am not even sure they can start that climb and unless Buena Vista changes their mind (and because of the region free I don't see this happening) this might be the straw!
Also, you absolutely can not neglet Buena Vista (Disney) backing BD. When Mom and Dad go into the store looking for a HD movie format that will fit the kids BD is going to be the only game in town. This is the mountain that HD-DVD has to climb. I am not even sure they can start that climb and unless Buena Vista changes their mind (and because of the region free I don't see this happening) this might be the straw!
Why? I haven't watched a disney movie in 10 years and I hope to god that it will be another 10 before I have to.
Disney also owns Buena Vista, Touchstone, Miramax and Pixar... You also have avoided the other studios?
A little off topic, but hopefully an enjoyable break from arguing about Blu-ray / Hd DVD . . . .
What was so great about Laserdiscs? The resolution was still only 480, right? (Not sure if it was 480i or 480p). Was the bitrate higher because of the additinal storage capacity, resulting in better video quality. Kind of like Superbit DVD?
Laserdiscs were analog video with optional digital sound. They looked noticeably better than VHS and the good ones sounded a world better (Dolby Digital and DTS before DVD even existed.)
A lot of those disney discs areplaying in cheap DVD players and in minivans..... A BluRay disc that doesn't play in the back seat on the long trip will be less desirable.
Now if Disney had been smart and backed HD DVD, they could have had their cake and eaten it to..... Combo discs would work in both the HD player as well as the standard def machines.....
Now if Disney had been smart and backed HD DVD, they could have had their cake and eaten it to..... Combo discs would work in both the HD player as well as the standard def machines.....
I still remember the goosebumps from watching the Star Wars Trilogy with Dolby Digital sound for the first time..... When we saw the THX logo and that intro, the walls vibrated...
My LaserDisc player has an FM modulated AC-3 output. This was high tech at the time and took a special port on a receiver to be able to decode it. At first laserdiscs looked better than DVDs since MPEG-2 was really bad. Now DVDs blow away laserdiscs in quality of picture and sound. This is especially noticable in anamorphic DVDs. Laserdisc simply had black bars so you just lost picture resolution on widescreen movies.
I wish the war would end to so I can buy a player.I'm waiting until war is over before buying one.I wish it would end soon so I can get one.Please let's end this.Nobody can predict this early who the winner is.At the earliest I see is summer to fall of this year and the latest will be after Christmas through spring of next year before we see who's ahead.IMO
Great discussion. But, for me, the war is not over until I see what format my video store goes with.
Right now my video store has no HD movies of either format, so I cannot consider any HD player. Whatever HD format they start stocking (when they have HD movies I want), that is the player format I will probably get. Simple.
Right now my video store has no HD movies of either format, so I cannot consider any HD player. Whatever HD format they start stocking (when they have HD movies I want), that is the player format I will probably get. Simple.
I didn't go with Laserdisc until I found a place that actually rented them. So it is the same for me with HD optical discs, only Netflix exists now. I joined Netflix after getting my PS3 mainly so that I rent HD movies.
I'm not sure if this is a sign of increased demand, but every Bluray disc I put in my queue has a wait time on it. It has taken weeks to get a Bluray disc that has been out for some time, where as a regular DVD may only show up with a wait when it is first released but available shortly thereafter.
How does the waitlists for HD-DVD on Netflix compare? Do you guys with the HD-DVD players see a long wait lists for HD-DVD movies also?
Not to say this is a definite indicator of "the winner" since Netflix (and other online providers) may have more of one title in HD-DVD than Blueray (or vice versa) which may skew the results. I'm sure there are other issues that could give false readings as well, but it would be interesting to see how both sides fare.
I'm not sure if this is a sign of increased demand, but every Bluray disc I put in my queue has a wait time on it. It has taken weeks to get a Bluray disc that has been out for some time, where as a regular DVD may only show up with a wait when it is first released but available shortly thereafter.
How does the waitlists for HD-DVD on Netflix compare? Do you guys with the HD-DVD players see a long wait lists for HD-DVD movies also?
Not to say this is a definite indicator of "the winner" since Netflix (and other online providers) may have more of one title in HD-DVD than Blueray (or vice versa) which may skew the results. I'm sure there are other issues that could give false readings as well, but it would be interesting to see how both sides fare.
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