D* has picked the ball back up. IE: Nascar hotpass

[goaliebob99]

Why should I trust you, sorry but unless there's some proof that folks can see it's just you saying it. There's lots of folks that 'say' things on the net when are inaccurate, just being a mod doesn't make you any different.

I can say that using network playback of HD content on D* for MPEG4 channels I'm seeing around 16Mbps. I see this via the stats on my router looking at before and after TX/RX rates. Some of that's going to be IP overhead so I'd guess around 14Mbps range, which IMHO isn't bad for a MPEG4 HD stream.

Nice way of pulling that number out of your ass. More accurately, the most an mpeg 4 transponder is pulling would be between 6 and 8 mbps. I have seen transponders peak around 12. Directv packs their transponders at 5 channels per transponder.

IE. DirecTV HD - Current Listing - DBSTalk.Com

A transponder is on average about 38 mbps. Using your logic, they could only get 2 HD channels on a transponder. We all know that is bogus. So 5 divided by 38 = 7.6 mbps per channel, wich is more in line with the numbers I have said.

Now with dish..

Dish packs on 6 per transponder but runs at a higer bitrate. I belive they get about 42 mbps running 8psk in conjuction with a lower error rate. Running that rate they get, an average of 7mbps per channel.


A side note: Both providers use a fluctuating encoding wich means that if there is a program that doesnt need as many bits, it wont take em and it will give those bits to a programming that needs more. For instance, if there is a Romance movie on HBO that doesnt have alot of fast motion, that transponder will give up its extra bits and give ESPN wich is on the same transpoder its bits because a Football game is on. If there is fast motion on all channels, then it will max everything out evenly. So its not uncommon to see a program running 12-14 and another as low as 4.

 

[Ronnie-]

Yeah, those numbers are more inline with what I had heard also, but I do not have anything to prove that they are correct. As of now, I do not think anyone does. It is all just best guess.

 

[Hemi 6.1]

Yeah, those numbers are more inline with what I had heard also, but I do not have anything to prove that they are correct. As of now, I do not think anyone does. It is all just best guess.

Yea I heard some where about SD channels only running about 1-3 Mbps , so for HD to be 14mbps you should be able to reach out and grab it

 

[Hemi 6.1]

A transponder is on average about 38 mbps. Using your logic, they could only get 2 HD channels on a transponder. We all know that is bogus. So 5 divided by 38 = 7.6 mbps per channel, wich is more in line with the numbers I have said.

Now with dish..

Dish packs on 6 per transponder but runs at a higer bitrate. I belive they get about 42 mbps running 8psk in conjuction with a lower error rate. Running that rate they get, an average of 7mbps per channel.


.

Yea,and thats about all D* HD PQ is better then E* by .6%.:up

 

[Hemi 6.1]

The fact that it is variable, Proves my point, That at some points E* PQ is a can be better then D* on certain channels and shows. I would say 70% D* HD PQ is better then E*. But by such a small margin its most times not even worth talking about. When we got to start breaking out the Bitrate scale to prove a point , Then its obviously a very small difference.

 

[rad]

Nice way of pulling that number out of your ass. More accurately, the most an mpeg 4 transponder is pulling would be between 6 and 8 mbps. I have seen transponders peak around 12. Directv packs their transponders at 5 channels per transponder.

IE. DirecTV HD - Current Listing - DBSTalk.Com

A transponder is on average about 38 mbps. Using your logic, they could only get 2 HD channels on a transponder. We all know that is bogus. So 5 divided by 38 = 7.6 mbps per channel, wich is more in line with the numbers I have said.

Now with dish..

Dish packs on 6 per transponder but runs at a higer bitrate. I belive they get about 42 mbps running 8psk in conjuction with a lower error rate. Running that rate they get, an average of 7mbps per channel.


A side note: Both providers use a fluctuating encoding wich means that if there is a program that doesnt need as many bits, it wont take em and it will give those bits to a programming that needs more. For instance, if there is a Romance movie on HBO that doesnt have alot of fast motion, that transponder will give up its extra bits and give ESPN wich is on the same transpoder its bits because a Football game is on. If there is fast motion on all channels, then it will max everything out evenly. So its not uncommon to see a program running 12-14 and another as low as 4.

First of all I said how I got the number, so far up to your last post that's all you appeared to be doing.

Now using Ku bandwith number to compare against Ka which is different, see DIRECTV and Ka (with satellite configs) - DBSTalk.Com for some background. And in post DBSTalk.Com - View Single Post - Megabits per second per transponder? concerning bandwidth it says:"I seem to remember that Directv uses 8PSK on the Ka-Band satellites, in which case the information rate would be around 58-65 Mbps, depending on the FEC. So lets split the difference and say 60Mbps, at 5 per transponder that would be a fixed rate of 12.2Mbps. But as you said the muxes will allocate bandwidth on the fly so it's very possible to see the number I reported. And D* knows that, if you look at the transpoder map you linked back to notice how 720p channels are mixed with the 1080i channels or sport with movies.

As for the believing everything you say you shot yourself with the Dish packs only 6 channels per TP.

Dish packs on 6 per transponder but runs at a higer bitrate.

Using your own list on this site, SatelliteGuys.US - Subscription 61.5°W check out TP 24 it show 7 available for an example.

 

[Hemi 6.1]

Using your own list on this site, SatelliteGuys.US - Subscription 61.5°W check out TP 24 it show 7 available for an example.

Good thing you stopped at 24, Because look at TP 25. How can this be explained?

 

[Hemi 6.1]

First of all I said how I got the number, so far up to your last post that's all you appeared to be doing.

Now using Ku bandwith number to compare against Ka which is different, see DIRECTV and Ka (with satellite configs) - DBSTalk.Com for some background. And in post DBSTalk.Com - View Single Post - Megabits per second per transponder? concerning bandwidth it says:"I seem to remember that Directv uses 8PSK on the Ka-Band satellites, in which case the information rate would be around 58-65 Mbps, depending on the FEC. So lets split the difference and say 60Mbps, at 5 per transponder that would be a fixed rate of 12.2Mbps. But as you said the muxes will allocate bandwidth on the fly so it's very possible to see the number I reported. And D* knows that, if you look at the transpoder map you linked back to notice how 720p channels are mixed with the 1080i channels or sport with movies.

As for the believing everything you say you shot yourself with the Dish packs only 6 channels per TP.

Using your own list on this site, SatelliteGuys.US - Subscription 61.5°W check out TP 24 it show 7 available for an example.

But do we really know for sure that D* using 8PSK 3/4 and not 2/3. How about is D* using 8PSK at all. Its seems the poster in the link you provided wasn't 100% sure.

 

[rad]

Good thing you stopped at 24, Because look at TP 25. How can this be explained?

Looks like the same 7 channel remapped two additional times. That's why I picked 24, it was the easiest to check, the least amount of remaps.

 

[rad]

But do we really know for sure that D* using 8PSK 3/4 and not 2/3. How about is D* using 8PSK at all. Its seems the poster in the link you provided wasn't 100% sure.

We don't, but at least I'm trying to post something to show how it could be vs. Bob posting info that to me doesn't sound correct. All I wanted was some links to show what he was saying and got the old 'its secret' answer.

 

[goaliebob99]

We don't, but at least I'm trying to post something to show how it could be vs. Bob posting info that to me doesn't sound correct. All I wanted was some links to show what he was saying and got the old 'its secret' answer.

His post isnt right, According to the ATSC, transmission rates for digital tv over satellite and transponders have the following rates using the type two data (IE DVBS2) rates.

http://www.atsc.org/standards/a_80.pdf

Transmission Symbol rate = 21.6000 2/3 FEC = 39.6000 5/6 fec = 49.5000 8/9 Fec, 52.8000

Directv's maximum usable Ka transponders is 36 Mhz by design, wich the following rates are.

Transmission Symbol Rate 28.8000 2/3 FEC 53.0824 5/6 fec 66.3529 8/9 FEC 70.7765


I can tell you for a fact that D* is using 2/3rds FEC as KA is more supportable to weather interference than KU. With a higher FEC you would loose your signal everytime clouds covered your house with a properly aligned dish, or every time you had a light sprinkle. Using 2/3 fec, it gives a nice balance for everything.

Even with your claim that would give 11 mbps per channel at 5 channels per tp. Wich is more than enough bandwidth, but that doesn't explain why D* hasnt really launched anything of substantial and why they couldn't carry or transmit hotpass over their own birds. They obviously have the bandwidth available if they wanted to. After all how many HD PPV's do we really need?

As far as dish using more, their mpeg 4 encoders allow them to do so along with the fact that the transponder is stacked with movie channels wich dont take up much space. If I remember right dish is using new harmonic encoders which are no joke. Ask the guys who are doing two 720P channels over one digital ATSC signal.

 

[rad]

His post isnt right, According to the ATSC, transmission rates for digital tv over satellite and transponders have the following rates using the type two data (IE DVBS2) rates.

http://www.atsc.org/standards/a_80.pdf

Transmission Symbol rate = 21.6000 2/3 FEC = 39.6000 5/6 fec = 49.5000 8/9 Fec, 52.8000

Directv's maximum usable Ka transponders is 36 Mhz by design, wich the following rates are.

Transmission Symbol Rate 28.8000 2/3 FEC 53.0824 5/6 fec 66.3529 8/9 FEC 70.7765


I can tell you for a fact that D* is using 2/3rds FEC as KA is more supportable to weather interference than KU. With a higher FEC you would loose your signal everytime clouds covered your house with a properly aligned dish, or every time you had a light sprinkle. Using 2/3 fec, it gives a nice balance for everything.

Even with your claim that would give 11 mbps per channel at 5 channels per tp. Wich is more than enough bandwidth, but that doesn't explain why D* hasnt really launched anything of substantial and why they couldn't carry or transmit hotpass over their own birds. They obviously have the bandwidth available if they wanted to. After all how many HD PPV's do we really need?

As far as dish using more, their mpeg 4 encoders allow them to do so along with the fact that the transponder is stacked with movie channels wich dont take up much space. If I remember right dish is using new harmonic encoders which are no joke. Ask the guys who are doing two 720P channels over one digital ATSC signal.

Thanks, that's all I wanted was something to back up statements being made.

 

[vurbano]

I agree that D* has dropped the ball but they have balls lying all over the field that I see.

PQ going downhill.

premium packages still starving for HD channels.

outrageous prices for ST and superfan.

anti customer protection plan and charges if you are not on it.

a ridiculous HD DVR models that have been released incomplete and require a 2 year bologna CE program to test them

recording lists on the HD DVR slow as molasses.


and now nascar

 

[Mikemosun]

I just got the inside scoop Nascar Hotpass will be back and it will be free for everyone.I cant wait.

 

[goaliebob99]

I just got the inside scoop Nascar Hotpass will be back and it will be free for everyone.I cant wait.

Details would be nice And don't be a stranger

 

[Mikemosun]

I work at a casino CT and we did a party for D* all the suit and ties were there.I am a blackjack dealer and before i dealt a hand out the first thing i asked them was about the Hot Pass.They said it is coming back this year and its going to be free for everyone.

 

[goaliebob99]

I work at a casino CT and we did a party for D* all the suit and ties were there.I am a blackjack dealer and before i dealt a hand out the first thing i asked them was about the Hot Pass.They said it is coming back this year and its going to be free for everyone.

Right, but hotpass from this year will not be the same as lastyear. Also, nothing has beeen announced yet. The issue for many is that were hours way from the first real race, (although the bud shootout was a real race, this is the first race for points) of the season and nothing has been annouced. this deal should have been done over a month ago.

 

[FKy.Guy]

Scroll down to post #136 for an update from DBS Talk
Nascar "Hotpass" - Page 6 - DBSTalk.Com

 

[uncrules]

Can you summarize? Some of us don't like to visit that site.

 

[wyattg]

Can you summarize? Some of us don't like to visit that site.

There are 4 channels with Racers numbers in the 790's range.