CONFIRMED(?)- Dish Discontinuing Absolute HD Package
- Thread starter lsilvest
- Start date
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Don't get me wrong. I would love a real HD only package... If a programmer wants my dollar they should provide me with an HD channel. I would love to see every channel in AEP in HD. It is not Dish's fault that they are forced to include SD channels so the providers can rack up tons of fees for SD infomercial channels. I pay the programmers back by locking out all the SD channels. If they ever want DVR stats that show I watch their programming, they better have an HD channel.
The problem is that programmers have realized that they have all the power in these negotiations. They have bought up all the competition so if a provider like Dish does not pay ball, they do not block 1 channel, they block a huge group of channels. I bet as soon as any contract expires with Disney, they will lock out Dish until they have all their channels carried and paid for 2x in SD and HD.
Just wait for the price increases after NBC/Universal acquisition is finished. Why make a deal with other providers when you can charge your left pocket from your right pocket. They will use the excuse that it is the same rate they charge their own cable systems, so why is it not fair for the competition to pay the same rate?
Again I think a la carte would be a big win for consumers.
The problem is that programmers have realized that they have all the power in these negotiations. They have bought up all the competition so if a provider like Dish does not pay ball, they do not block 1 channel, they block a huge group of channels. I bet as soon as any contract expires with Disney, they will lock out Dish until they have all their channels carried and paid for 2x in SD and HD.
Just wait for the price increases after NBC/Universal acquisition is finished. Why make a deal with other providers when you can charge your left pocket from your right pocket. They will use the excuse that it is the same rate they charge their own cable systems, so why is it not fair for the competition to pay the same rate?
Again I think a la carte would be a big win for consumers.
here is what we got coming down the line to us....
when asked about the timetable for the end of absolute, we were told.... "soon". which in dish language means we have no friggin idea.
when we asked about the current changeover promotions we were told that it is being offered only to those on the outbound calls or responding to the outbound calls. it was not directly said that the current discount being offered would end, but they seemed to leave it open ended that those who are not taking the current offer will not get it at a later date when the forced change comes.
as for the forced change, you will very likely wake up one day and find your package set to dish america as it is the same price range.
when asked about the timetable for the end of absolute, we were told.... "soon". which in dish language means we have no friggin idea.
when we asked about the current changeover promotions we were told that it is being offered only to those on the outbound calls or responding to the outbound calls. it was not directly said that the current discount being offered would end, but they seemed to leave it open ended that those who are not taking the current offer will not get it at a later date when the forced change comes.
as for the forced change, you will very likely wake up one day and find your package set to dish america as it is the same price range.
Call me!
I've had Absolute since it was offered. If it is really coming to an end, please call me! I'm a huge college football fan and I would like to have ESPNU before the season kicks off (even if it is only SD-- when are we going to get it in HD?)!!!
I'll stick with Dish. I've been with them since '01 and they have treated me well. I'm not happy about programming changes, but it beats cable and it's cheaper than D*. If I had FIOS or UVerse in my area I would look at bundles. Bundles are the future and Dish better figure out something to compete with them quickly, IMHO.
I've had Absolute since it was offered. If it is really coming to an end, please call me! I'm a huge college football fan and I would like to have ESPNU before the season kicks off (even if it is only SD-- when are we going to get it in HD?)!!!
I'll stick with Dish. I've been with them since '01 and they have treated me well. I'm not happy about programming changes, but it beats cable and it's cheaper than D*. If I had FIOS or UVerse in my area I would look at bundles. Bundles are the future and Dish better figure out something to compete with them quickly, IMHO.
While all the suckers who fell for the ploy are now paying double.
I've had the HDonly package since 2005. Back then i think there were 5 channels plus 10 Vooms. It cost $15 a month plus a $6 service fee. I had to fight through a bunch of clueless service reps. Before i found one that would flip the switch "on".
Also, you had to do your own install and purchase your own equipment to even get it . No subsidies for that deal.
i'll bet they send out a letter to all affected customers at some point.
Too big of a change for them to be able to get away with it like that. Way too much bad publicity if they try to do it any other way.
Yes, and i wouldn't really mind subscribing to a package that included SD if Dish didn't butcher the channels below SVHS quality. I mean look at them. They look like Sh!t.
Waiting
There are a couple of channels I have missed as an Absolute Sub(early), but I also don't watch SD. Direct doesn't have locals here. About the only thing between the 200 and 250 I would miss is Versus and that is only when the Tour de France is on each July. I will probably take the discount, and hope the new Apple TV coming out in Sept is a little miracle that will help me unhook from the cable/sat circus. I am not very hopeful about that. ron
There are a couple of channels I have missed as an Absolute Sub(early), but I also don't watch SD. Direct doesn't have locals here. About the only thing between the 200 and 250 I would miss is Versus and that is only when the Tour de France is on each July. I will probably take the discount, and hope the new Apple TV coming out in Sept is a little miracle that will help me unhook from the cable/sat circus. I am not very hopeful about that. ron
It would be my guess they are doing this to appease the content providers who probably don't like the all HD option. it leaves out many of the junk channels that are not in HD but which are always forced on people so they get a bigger cut of the programming fee.
yeah its just a guess, but my guess its another maximise profit without concern for customers opinions and sub number / retention..........
After carefully studying all the current Sat TV HD offerings/costs and thinking about the channels we actually watch, being forcibly switched Dish America (HD) is a risk I'm willing to take.
Ironically the best currently available Sat TV package fit for us, long term (i.e. after any teaser promos expire), is Dish HD America + HD Platinum. Our TV bill would go up about $10. And we'd have to give up some HD channels we like to watch on occasion. But we would still be getting the majority of HD we do watch, while still minimizing the subsidy we pay Dish and the programmers for crappy SD channels we NEVER watch.
IOW I plan to continue to do everything I can as a consumer to tell E*, D* and the Sat TV programmers that I really, really don't like being forced to pay for a load of crappy SD channels, just to get the few HD channels we do watch. And if push comes to shove, I'll drop to Locals Only and Netflix to prove it. After all, this is only TV.
Talon Dancer
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This runs directly to my point. We know that the four Disney-controlled channels that were recently removed were added to this package in May 2008 and that Dish Network did not have a contract for these.TalonDancer said:
The package was only offered for SIX months, and it wasn't promoted much. That has to be one of the shortest offerings ever. I'm thinking the programmers are miffed and some believe their channels should have never been offered in that package.
Our loyalty credits all expire with this new bill. That takes us from $127.99 per month, to $149.99 per month.
Given the fact that we are getting some work done to fix our current house up so we can put it on the market; are in the process of finalizing the purchase of a new home; and reviewing all of our budgets for retirement in 6 years, we are taking a hard line look at Dish's costs.
We are responsible for part of the problem with the costs: we went from 2 722s to 3 in January - for convenience only. ALL OWNED.
We have never leased anything.
We have never had any special pricing for any packages.
We have never had a Dish Network tech come to the house for any reason.
I installed our 1000.1. I work in medical networking technology and deal with wireless, RF, infrared, microwave, point-to-point, and satellite technologies all day long so it was a no brainier to purchase the upgrade to our old 500 and install it. Besides, when you have a 110 year old, fully restored, Chicago bungalow, there's no way in hell I will ever allow a cable or satellite installer to drill through outside walls and antique, irreplaceable brick, so he can take a shortcut during the installation process. Everything is pulled and fished with nothing showing on the outside or inside walls - the way the old Bell System installers - I was one of them - were taught to do installations.
At the same time we added the 3rd receiver, Dish changed the fee structure. When I called to add the 3rd receiver, and was told the bill would jump from $105.00 per month for what was then, I believe, called "America's everything" - with Chicago locals, Comcast Sports Network, and all four premium movie packages, to $137.00 - I had a fit. Following the advice of the members of this group, I attempted to contact customer retention and was refused transfer by several CSRs during phone calls. Only after sending an e-mail to CEO@DISHNETWORK.com did someone call me and offer to "make things right.
Making things right on the part of Dish Network was giving me two, $5.00 per month, "loyalty credits" for six months. That brought my bill back down to $127.99 per month - never could understand how the extra 99 cents got added.
Now, looking at my latest bill, via the new [VERY SLOW] portal, it will be $149.99!
Let's see, with the loyalty credits gone, the bill should have jumped back up to $137.99, but now it is suddenly $149.99. Where did the additionally $12.00 per month come from?
OH! WAIT! My mistake! Dish RAISED RATES on 1 June - how could I let that slip my mind.
So, by adding a receiver, without any Dish Network employee ever having to come to my house - for anything; without ever having incurred any costs to Dish for equipment cost offsets because I have NEVER leased equipment, always BOUGHT OUTRIGHT - always SELF INSTALLED . . .
After having been a loyal dish network customer since it was Charlie and a hand full of employees way back in the early 90s, we are potentially going to have to drop both the 3rd receiver [722] and scale back on the programming. To wit:
Summary:
Statement Date: 07/14
Service Period 07/29 - 08/28
Statement Balance: $127.99
Due Date: 08/03
Last Payment Date: 07/02
Last Payment Amount: $127.33
Billing Preferences:
Bill Language: English
Paperless Billing: Not Enrolled - NO PAPERLESS - NEVER
AutoPay: Not Enrolled - NO AUTO-PAY - NEVER
Statement Details:
America's Everything Pak: $ 99.00
DVR Service: $ 6.00
HD 250 Free: $ 0.00
HD Duo DVR Receiver: $ 17.00
HD Duo DVR Receiver: $ 17.00
HD Platinum: $ 10.00
........................................................
Total: $149.99 (excludes taxes / credits)
Again, I cannot understand where the 99 CENTS comes from, as, when I add everything up on my calculator, it comes to: $149.00 - no 99 CENTS at the end of the total!
Fortunately, Illinois does not allow the charging of taxes on either installation, delivery, or satellite television - only on the sale of physical property.
So, after budget considerations, we have decided that we will, in the interest of showing off the house during the sales process, keep the Dish Network services as they are.
Having a really nice HD set in a study, bedroom, kitchen, and living room, turned on, with a great movie playing on TCM is a psychological tool that sways potential buyer's interests when looking at a house - just like a properly working refrigerator or air-conditioning system when it is 100 degrees outside.
After we sell the house, we will probably drop at least one of the receivers, drop the HD platinum - we rarely watch anything in that group except MGM and they have now started to put commercials into every hour slot - as well as between pictures. We have little use for the other channels in the group.
We have never purchased a pay-per-view and have all of those channels locked. We have a collection of more than 4,000 DVDs and are not interested in most first-run movies. The other half works in graphics arts and film restoration. Most of what is being produced now is garbage by comparison to the stuff produced prior to the 60s.
We have never watched any of the sports channels. Don't have time.
Even though we will be 60 miles northwest of Chicago, we will be on a nice high hill - in an unincorporated area.
Our nearest neighbor, almost half a mile away, has a 100' tower with a high-gain antenna for digital OTA. Two antennas, combiner, and both Chicago and Milwaukee stations are perfect - more than 60 altogether.
By maintaining a basic DN subscription to supplement for things like TCM, HBO, ShowTime, Cinimax, etc, and given the fact that the digital OTA stuff is far superior OTA than what DN is re-transmitting now, or will probably ever offer; considering how DN compresses the crap out of everything HD, sending out a product which is really HD-LITE by comparison to digital OTA or Blu-Ray, we have zero use for DN's re-transmission of broadcast channels.
As a customer, we've never really cost you a penny, Dish Network: not for service, not for equipment, not for promotions. Your only costs for our account were program content costs.
So, to Charlie, and the rest of the manglement staff at Dish Network, it was a swell ride while it lasted. Between your corporate greed, continued desire to get into legal entanglements with every tom, dick and harry in the entertainment industry, and the content providers, including the OTA broadcasters, trying to dig as deep as they can into everyone's pockets with their "fees;" we won't be sticking around to see how much higher you can drive up the costs, but will be saying our goodbyes and cutting our costs.
IF, and I seriously doubt you ever will, you learn to cut the waste, Charlie: IE: get rid of the SD duplicates of the channels already in HD so you don't have to run double bandwidth on everything; remove the Comcast sports network from those packages where customers have no interest in sports; show TRUE HD in your HD feeds - not just an occasional pay-per-view movie; learn to CONTROL THE VOLUME in your commercial feeds on ALL of the channels - the technology for that has been around for more than 50 years and it does NOT belong on the receiver side of the equation; and quit screwing your truly loyal customers - who OWN their equipment - via their bills each month, we might consider coming back.
Given the fact that we are getting some work done to fix our current house up so we can put it on the market; are in the process of finalizing the purchase of a new home; and reviewing all of our budgets for retirement in 6 years, we are taking a hard line look at Dish's costs.
We are responsible for part of the problem with the costs: we went from 2 722s to 3 in January - for convenience only. ALL OWNED.
We have never leased anything.
We have never had any special pricing for any packages.
We have never had a Dish Network tech come to the house for any reason.
I installed our 1000.1. I work in medical networking technology and deal with wireless, RF, infrared, microwave, point-to-point, and satellite technologies all day long so it was a no brainier to purchase the upgrade to our old 500 and install it. Besides, when you have a 110 year old, fully restored, Chicago bungalow, there's no way in hell I will ever allow a cable or satellite installer to drill through outside walls and antique, irreplaceable brick, so he can take a shortcut during the installation process. Everything is pulled and fished with nothing showing on the outside or inside walls - the way the old Bell System installers - I was one of them - were taught to do installations.
At the same time we added the 3rd receiver, Dish changed the fee structure. When I called to add the 3rd receiver, and was told the bill would jump from $105.00 per month for what was then, I believe, called "America's everything" - with Chicago locals, Comcast Sports Network, and all four premium movie packages, to $137.00 - I had a fit. Following the advice of the members of this group, I attempted to contact customer retention and was refused transfer by several CSRs during phone calls. Only after sending an e-mail to CEO@DISHNETWORK.com did someone call me and offer to "make things right.
Making things right on the part of Dish Network was giving me two, $5.00 per month, "loyalty credits" for six months. That brought my bill back down to $127.99 per month - never could understand how the extra 99 cents got added.
Now, looking at my latest bill, via the new [VERY SLOW] portal, it will be $149.99!
Let's see, with the loyalty credits gone, the bill should have jumped back up to $137.99, but now it is suddenly $149.99. Where did the additionally $12.00 per month come from?
OH! WAIT! My mistake! Dish RAISED RATES on 1 June - how could I let that slip my mind.
So, by adding a receiver, without any Dish Network employee ever having to come to my house - for anything; without ever having incurred any costs to Dish for equipment cost offsets because I have NEVER leased equipment, always BOUGHT OUTRIGHT - always SELF INSTALLED . . .
After having been a loyal dish network customer since it was Charlie and a hand full of employees way back in the early 90s, we are potentially going to have to drop both the 3rd receiver [722] and scale back on the programming. To wit:
Summary:
Statement Date: 07/14
Service Period 07/29 - 08/28
Statement Balance: $127.99
Due Date: 08/03
Last Payment Date: 07/02
Last Payment Amount: $127.33
Billing Preferences:
Bill Language: English
Paperless Billing: Not Enrolled - NO PAPERLESS - NEVER
AutoPay: Not Enrolled - NO AUTO-PAY - NEVER
Statement Details:
America's Everything Pak: $ 99.00
DVR Service: $ 6.00
HD 250 Free: $ 0.00
HD Duo DVR Receiver: $ 17.00
HD Duo DVR Receiver: $ 17.00
HD Platinum: $ 10.00
........................................................
Total: $149.99 (excludes taxes / credits)
Again, I cannot understand where the 99 CENTS comes from, as, when I add everything up on my calculator, it comes to: $149.00 - no 99 CENTS at the end of the total!
Fortunately, Illinois does not allow the charging of taxes on either installation, delivery, or satellite television - only on the sale of physical property.
So, after budget considerations, we have decided that we will, in the interest of showing off the house during the sales process, keep the Dish Network services as they are.
Having a really nice HD set in a study, bedroom, kitchen, and living room, turned on, with a great movie playing on TCM is a psychological tool that sways potential buyer's interests when looking at a house - just like a properly working refrigerator or air-conditioning system when it is 100 degrees outside.
After we sell the house, we will probably drop at least one of the receivers, drop the HD platinum - we rarely watch anything in that group except MGM and they have now started to put commercials into every hour slot - as well as between pictures. We have little use for the other channels in the group.
We have never purchased a pay-per-view and have all of those channels locked. We have a collection of more than 4,000 DVDs and are not interested in most first-run movies. The other half works in graphics arts and film restoration. Most of what is being produced now is garbage by comparison to the stuff produced prior to the 60s.
We have never watched any of the sports channels. Don't have time.
Even though we will be 60 miles northwest of Chicago, we will be on a nice high hill - in an unincorporated area.
Our nearest neighbor, almost half a mile away, has a 100' tower with a high-gain antenna for digital OTA. Two antennas, combiner, and both Chicago and Milwaukee stations are perfect - more than 60 altogether.
By maintaining a basic DN subscription to supplement for things like TCM, HBO, ShowTime, Cinimax, etc, and given the fact that the digital OTA stuff is far superior OTA than what DN is re-transmitting now, or will probably ever offer; considering how DN compresses the crap out of everything HD, sending out a product which is really HD-LITE by comparison to digital OTA or Blu-Ray, we have zero use for DN's re-transmission of broadcast channels.
As a customer, we've never really cost you a penny, Dish Network: not for service, not for equipment, not for promotions. Your only costs for our account were program content costs.
So, to Charlie, and the rest of the manglement staff at Dish Network, it was a swell ride while it lasted. Between your corporate greed, continued desire to get into legal entanglements with every tom, dick and harry in the entertainment industry, and the content providers, including the OTA broadcasters, trying to dig as deep as they can into everyone's pockets with their "fees;" we won't be sticking around to see how much higher you can drive up the costs, but will be saying our goodbyes and cutting our costs.
IF, and I seriously doubt you ever will, you learn to cut the waste, Charlie: IE: get rid of the SD duplicates of the channels already in HD so you don't have to run double bandwidth on everything; remove the Comcast sports network from those packages where customers have no interest in sports; show TRUE HD in your HD feeds - not just an occasional pay-per-view movie; learn to CONTROL THE VOLUME in your commercial feeds on ALL of the channels - the technology for that has been around for more than 50 years and it does NOT belong on the receiver side of the equation; and quit screwing your truly loyal customers - who OWN their equipment - via their bills each month, we might consider coming back.
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Nice write up. BTW, the 99 cents is because the AEP is 99.99 not 99.00
Some of the complaints that you have an attribute to Dish are not Dish's to assume. The programmers that have both SD and HD of their product do not want HD only subscriptions, or at least most of them. That alone will keep the SD stuff around for a bit longer, but in time SD will disappear.
HD only programming and let the receiver do the downconvert for those without HD TVs. Of course, today the programmers wouldn't allow that to happen UNLESS the payment was as high as it is for the HD/SD streams today, which does away with the advantage of HD only subscriptions. I think that is at least part of the issue today with the HD Absolute disappearing.
The hardware to do that is already in the field. That is exactly what the Vip series receivers/DVRs do now. But that isn't what is out there. Still lots of SD TVs and the boxes that only do SD. Over time both of those things will change, but it isn't going to be tomorrow or any time soon.
As much as I think Dish screwed the pooch on the equipment fees AND the raising of programming subscriptions, I think it may get worse for all subscription services if the programmers get the increases they are wanting. I think we've only seen the tip of the iceberg with the Disney/ESPN fiasco.
For me, I enjoy watching TV of all sorts and broadcast alone just won't get it. Nor would the FTA satellite stuff. Like you, at some time in the future, if the bills keep increasing, I will have to look at what programs/channels are of most interest and balance that against the cost.
Some of the complaints that you have an attribute to Dish are not Dish's to assume. The programmers that have both SD and HD of their product do not want HD only subscriptions, or at least most of them. That alone will keep the SD stuff around for a bit longer, but in time SD will disappear.
HD only programming and let the receiver do the downconvert for those without HD TVs. Of course, today the programmers wouldn't allow that to happen UNLESS the payment was as high as it is for the HD/SD streams today, which does away with the advantage of HD only subscriptions. I think that is at least part of the issue today with the HD Absolute disappearing.
The hardware to do that is already in the field. That is exactly what the Vip series receivers/DVRs do now. But that isn't what is out there. Still lots of SD TVs and the boxes that only do SD. Over time both of those things will change, but it isn't going to be tomorrow or any time soon.
As much as I think Dish screwed the pooch on the equipment fees AND the raising of programming subscriptions, I think it may get worse for all subscription services if the programmers get the increases they are wanting. I think we've only seen the tip of the iceberg with the Disney/ESPN fiasco.
For me, I enjoy watching TV of all sorts and broadcast alone just won't get it. Nor would the FTA satellite stuff. Like you, at some time in the future, if the bills keep increasing, I will have to look at what programs/channels are of most interest and balance that against the cost.
I agree. I think the 'programmers' want HD only style packages killed so they can get paid for SD channels many of us don't watch.
But this isn't really about HD vs SD. This is about a business model that sprinkles a few 'good' channels in with a bunch of 'junky' channels and sells it as a package based on channel count -- quantity vs quality. HD vs SD is simply a proxy for the quantity vs quality issue because most programmers switched their best channels to HD first. So 'HD Only' style packages allowed some consumers to cut the crap and their monthly bills
If we roll over and accept a short term promo for an SD package with HD added on, we will have given Dish and the programmers no incentive to look at a different business model to keep us as subs.FWIW I fully expect all the 'HD Only" sytle accounts to die, because you can rarely overestimate the willingness of consumers to go for quantity vs quality. Some just take a bit more prodding than others.
Talon Dancer
[strike] I don't believe that is correct. DisneyXD, I think, is one of the channels in question, [/strike] and was added in the past year (?).
Correction: They renamed it from Toon Disney to DisneyXD.
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Thanks for the pricing clarification. Interesting to note that I copied and pasted the pricing directly from the DN portal. More errors on DN's part. Will be interesting to see the actual bill when it arrives in a week.
Trying to comprehend what would be the lowest cost HD package available if/when forced to switch.
when I go to the Dish website, the only obvious route to HD is to buy AT120 and then add HD, and to be comparable to what we have now, add Platinum
so that would be
AT120 = 39.99
+HD = 10.00
+Platinum = 10.00
+ locals + service plan (5.99, 6)
= 71.98 / month before any discounts.
per the deal Joe was offered
months 1-6 would see discounts of $15 + No HD fee (free HD for life?) + $10 for free Platinum = 71.98 - 15 - 10 -10 = 36.98/month
months 6-12 would see Plat back in the price = 46.98/month
months 12+ would see the $15 discount expire = 56.98/month
a) do I have the above correct?
b) is there a different package to start from? when I log in to my acct I see Dish America" package for $29.99 but the link take me to page about adding HD to the ATxxx packages... so I'm not finding a clear description of Dish America??
The implication of this chart (found via Goggle) : DISH HD - DISH America & DISH America Gold & Silver Digital Dish HDTV is that the Bronze/Silver/Gold packages are "Dish America" and are the HD-add-ons packages without SD channels that would come with an ATxxx base package?
(I have not kept up with the packages.. I have Absolute and had no intention of switching off)
If that is true then the minimum entry point would be
Dish America (bronze) = 29.99
+Platinum = 10.00
+ locals/service plan = 5.99 + 6
= 51.98 / month before any discounts.
months 1-6 would see discounts of $15 + (HD for life has no meaning here?) + $10 for free Platinum = 51.98 - 15 - 10 = 26.99/month
months 6-12 would see Plat back in the price = 36.98/month
months 12+ would see the $15 discount expire = 46.99/month
I'm suspicious that I've made some mistakes in this. Corrections welcomed
EDIT: adding locals (5.99) and service plan (6) to the cost
EDIT2: current bill for comparison is $44.84/month
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I agree. I think the 'programmers' want HD only style packages killed so they can get paid for SD channels many of us don't watch.
But this isn't really about HD vs SD. This is about a business model that sprinkles a few 'good' channels in with a bunch of 'junky' channels and sells it as a package based on channel count -- quantity vs quality. HD vs SD is simply a proxy for the quantity vs quality issue because most programmers switched their best channels to HD first. So 'HD Only' style packages allowed some consumers to cut the crap and their monthly bills
FWIW I fully expect all the 'HD Only" sytle accounts to die, because you can rarely overestimate the willingness of consumers to go for quantity vs quality. Some just take a bit more prodding than others.
Talon Dancer
The part I put in bold type reminds me back to when LPs were sold with one or two hits on them and then the rest of the songs were crappy. A lot of times I would hold off until a "Greatest Hits" album came out.
Ghpr13
