Already being done. The USB OTA tuner will record their OTA signal, and it has been reported that with PTAT on, even minimally, that AutoHop works on programs recorded OTA.
CBS Seeks to Unwind Retrans Agreement With Dish Network
- Thread starter dfergie
- Start date
- Latest activity Latest activity:
- Replies 215
- Views 29K
Already being done. The USB OTA tuner will record their OTA signal, and it has been reported that with PTAT on, even minimally, that AutoHop works on programs recorded OTA.
CBS maintains that they hold a copyright on how the signal is sent to the customer and that Dish violates that copyright by modifying the content. However, each 30- or 60-minute program is already being "modified" by the local affiliate who inserts local advertising and promos, as well as Station IDs. So, the program on my Hopper no longer resembles the exact copy that CBS sent out to its affiliates. If CBS is claiming that Dish is unlawfully modifying their copy-written content, then so are the Locals. In fact, you could argue that by allowing their affiliates the ability to modify their content, CBS complaisantly allows automated modification of copy-written material and what Dish is modifying in no longer "owned" by CBS.
I'm surprised a company like CBS hasn't tried to stretch the DMCA to cover a case against Dish. The question would come down to if the programming delivered directly to Dish over fiber lines is encrypted. If so, then Dish is restructuring digital content from how it was designed to be delivered to the end user. Kind of like a company legally allowed to decrypt and convert a DVD to another format but removing the annoying movie previews.
As allowed per the affiliation agreement that CBS has with their affiliates. CBS allows their locals to do that as they have an agreement that allows the locals to do so, there is no contract with dish that allows them to do the same as far as automatically skipping commercials for you. The affiliates have an agreement with CBS and its federal law that they have to identify their station's legal call letters. This argument that you present is absolutely ridiculous
The one generation of copy could be argued that it's the actual broadcast and anything beyond that is not 1st generation. Also, while the FCC killed off the fairness doctrine, that doesn't mean that the broadcasters couldn't influence the FCC to add digital copyrights when it comes to DVR's. After all the FCC is trying to takeaway more spectrum. It could very well turn out that the broadcasters would give up more spectrum in exchange for broadcast flags and copyright expiration of content. Believe you and me, we have not heard the last of this. The broadcasters want to secure their content and auto hop doesn't sit well.
Edit: Also the free conditional access part went away. As comcast subscribers how encryption of their basic channels are working for them. Also, I wanted to clarify that the broadcast television part only applies to the OTA signal. Once it hits your satellite provider or cable provider it then becomes Pay Television, IE non premium subscription television. That part can change and most likely will in the future if the broadcasters lobby to change that part wich I see coming very soon. Also keep in mind that the argument from broadcasters is that by chopping up ins and outs it now becomes VOD. So I think the legal argument is going to be what consists of VOD. What is the legal definition.
According this website http://searchtelecom.techtarget.com/definition/video-on-demand , that definition includes : Video on demand (VoD) is an interactive TV technology that allows subscribers to view programming in real time or download programs and view them later.A VoD system at the consumer level can consist of a standard TV receiver along with a set-top box. So it boils down to what VOD is.
Last edited:
Cool. Any more anti-consumer draconian restrictions than what is already being forced on us will be the final nail in the coffin of the legacy TV business model, not auto hop.
You'd love that, wouldn't you Claude? Actually, no it won't, because by that time DirecTV, Comcast and AT&T will have their own versions of Autohop out. The genie is out of the bottle, I'm afraid. The networks won't win against all the other major providers offering the same service.
Um, no. That is 100% wrong. The Betamax case in the 1980's codified into law time shifting as a fundamental protected right as part of fair use. Other fair use provisions also apply.
Even if they do have it waiting in the wings, one by one they will have to do retransmission consent. One by one they will be forced to comply.
If you have been with Dish a long time you remember the time before LiL. Both Dish and DIRECTV were very small and not growing fast. It was the introduction of locals that really made DBS the big player it is today. The locals are still the biggest networks and the most watched by far, they have a lot of leverage.
Wrong. Broadcast networks are not allowed to implement broadcast flags per FCC regulations. Premium networks and PPV events can.
It's already dying, the entertainment portion, which is why we have K9SAT who is trying to save his job/station one presumes. Since the feature has to be selected by the user each time, the user is in control the same as pressing the FF/SKIP button, except they don't have to do it each and every time an ad appears. It won't be long until OTA entertainment broadcast is history and we'll all have to deal with on demand models which presumably will not allow ad skipping or may be PPV without ads or some combo of the two.
No, that's NOT what it means. If that was the case, the word copy wouldn't be in there. It would refer to a NO COPY flag. WHICH ALREADY EXISTS. Try again.
No, not at all. Not even close. Those restrictions are placed by the cable/sat provider to secure THEIR network. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the broadcast network. Putting it on cable does not make it premium subscription television. You really are reaching.
That's the argument they're trying to make, but it's mental gymnastics of Olympic proportions to try to classify it as such. Dish isn't modifying the stream at all. The show REMAINS INTACT. The commercials are still there, they just automatically hit the skip ahead button for you.
Not really. If DirecTV, Comcast, and AT&T have this technology, you can bet they will band together against the networks. This isn't 20 years ago where these companies are just getting started and have very little capacity. They are major players with a lot of money and power. Plus, you have cable providers who will join in. If everyone has it, and the networks try to withhold from all of them, they won't have anyone left to sell TO.
Plus the digital conversion put many people in fringe areas out of getting signals OTA, their only source is Satellite ...
When the retrans agreement ends it will not be with all the providers at the same time. It may end up being no different than the other negotiations that have taken place where they have them all due at different times to prevent providers from banding together to fight them on the price increases.
I'm fortunate that I live in the shadow of our local broadcasters' towers. If Dish loses retransmit in general, I still have OTA. If Dish is forced to remove Autohop, I am not so lazy that I can't press the 30-sec skip button a number of times.
CBS and the other networks are fighting a lost cause, as others have pointed out, the courts have given the consumer the right to watch OTA programs that they have recorded in-home. As long as the content remains in the consumer's home, the consumer is allowed to watch the content for personal use.
Where CBS and others should be concerned is the Dish Anywhere. If I can record current network programming using the PTAT feature, I can watch this program anywhere in the world, assuming a good Internet connection. Plus, with the Dish Transfers, you can put a copy on your iPad that is available anytime.
CBS and the other networks are fighting a lost cause, as others have pointed out, the courts have given the consumer the right to watch OTA programs that they have recorded in-home. As long as the content remains in the consumer's home, the consumer is allowed to watch the content for personal use.
Where CBS and others should be concerned is the Dish Anywhere. If I can record current network programming using the PTAT feature, I can watch this program anywhere in the world, assuming a good Internet connection. Plus, with the Dish Transfers, you can put a copy on your iPad that is available anytime.
Based solely on Dish's worst practices (as opposed to Industry best practices) of stealing intellectual propert and illegally terminating agreements, and then destroying evidence and lying to conceal their misdeeds, I would tend to believe CBS' statements before giving any creedence to Dish/SATS rebuttal. Now, if CBS can prove that Dish/SATS was required to disclose, or reasonably expected to disclose, information about their soon-to-be-released AutoHop feature that would significantly alter the availability of CBS' advertising stream being distribulted to their audience...well, they are likely to win their case.
IMO, Dish/SATS had an obligation to inform CBS their advertising stream would be negatively affected by AutoHop. Dish had to know its AutoHop feature would affect how CBS could charge their advertisers (heck, they sell customer viewing stats and ad time) and they should have disclosed this information during negotiations so CBS could adjust their rates accordingly. For example, if CBS' is going to lose 30% of ad revenue due to AutoHop they have every right to require Dish/SATS to make up the difference. This concept is known as good faith negotiations. Negotiating in good faith tends to build trust and lead to good and healthy relationships, while trying to pull the wool over the other party's eyes tends to lead to mistrust and subsequently piss poor relationships and a trip to the courtroom. Perhaps this is the reason why Dish/SATS has so many broken relationships with programmers? Perhaps this is the reason why Dish has to many ugly divorces with their business partners. Maybe that's why they are generally viewed as the Gabor sisters of Industry...look good on the outside, but 10-minutes into a binding relationship and you're wanting to choke the life out of their cheating, lying faces. Just call Josh Sapan at AMC and ask his opinion if you don't believe me.
In a nutshell, if AutoHop enables customers to effortlessly bypass commercials and thus rob CBS of advertising revenue (which I supposed they are entitled to do), CBS will have to make up this different by charging higher subscription fees. There is no doubt CBS would have charged a premium if Dish has disclosed that the release of AutoHop was imminent. We shall see...
IMO, Dish/SATS had an obligation to inform CBS their advertising stream would be negatively affected by AutoHop. Dish had to know its AutoHop feature would affect how CBS could charge their advertisers (heck, they sell customer viewing stats and ad time) and they should have disclosed this information during negotiations so CBS could adjust their rates accordingly. For example, if CBS' is going to lose 30% of ad revenue due to AutoHop they have every right to require Dish/SATS to make up the difference. This concept is known as good faith negotiations. Negotiating in good faith tends to build trust and lead to good and healthy relationships, while trying to pull the wool over the other party's eyes tends to lead to mistrust and subsequently piss poor relationships and a trip to the courtroom. Perhaps this is the reason why Dish/SATS has so many broken relationships with programmers? Perhaps this is the reason why Dish has to many ugly divorces with their business partners. Maybe that's why they are generally viewed as the Gabor sisters of Industry...look good on the outside, but 10-minutes into a binding relationship and you're wanting to choke the life out of their cheating, lying faces. Just call Josh Sapan at AMC and ask his opinion if you don't believe me.
In a nutshell, if AutoHop enables customers to effortlessly bypass commercials and thus rob CBS of advertising revenue (which I supposed they are entitled to do), CBS will have to make up this different by charging higher subscription fees. There is no doubt CBS would have charged a premium if Dish has disclosed that the release of AutoHop was imminent. We shall see...
Since Autohop doesn't 'effortlessly' allow customers to bypass those ads, you make the case for Dish to win quite well. 
No one in their right mind watches commercials in this day and age if they have a dvr, AutoHop isn't that much different than commercial skip which Replay has had out for years...
