Can't win for losing - strike three on attempted new install

[Joe Diamond]

Chip nailed it, they're all approved for indoor/outdoor use

I was just thinking back to an earlier issue where multiswitches were found to admit water......because techs installed them in strange orientations. So ground blocks were required in addition to the multiswitch because the switch frame had not been submitted for testing $$$$$. It was eventually resolved. Just checkin'

joe

 

[TominKY]

Your fine with the coax you have.

That's what I thought. Now if only I could get DTV to see it that way.

 

[satinstallerguy]

I've used CCS in every install that I have put in and never received SC's due to the cabling issues.......... The SCC is a myth.

SIG

 

[TominKY]

I've used CCS in every install that I have put in and never received SC's due to the cabling issues.......... The SCC is a myth.

SIG

That's the kind of feedback I'm looking for! Now if I can just find someone who is willing to step outside the DTV corporate guidelines, I'll be in business. SIG, any chance I could coax you down to Northern KY? Beer's on me! (but only after the SAT is installed. )

 

[satinstallerguy]

I am a Directv Dealer and I have an installer down there that can hook you up. I carry the HR 44 and 41 clients. I would just have to revalidate you in our system.........
Send me a PM if you want.

SIG

 

[Jimbo]

I've used CCS in every install that I have put in and never received SC's due to the cabling issues.......... The SCC is a myth.

SIG

Not if it's a real long run.

 

[TominKY]

Jimbo, what's considered a "real long run"? I have about 20 feet down the chimney chase, maybe 35 feet along the back of the house, another 20 around the side of the house, and then 20 inside. That's somewhere around 100'. Too long for CCS?

 

[Jimbo]

Jimbo, what's considered a "real long run"? I have about 20 feet down the chimney chase, maybe 35 feet along the back of the house, another 20 around the side of the house, and then 20 inside. That's somewhere around 100'. Too long for CCS?

No, your fine, I'm thinking OVER 250+ ft. is when you'll start to have issues.
The actual installers can give you a better known figure on this though.

 

[Claude Greiner]

Something about your house is making the install a pain in the A$$ for the installer to install, or the install would have been done already.

Post some pictures of your house please

 

[TominKY]

Something about your house is making the install a pain in the A$$ for the installer to install, or the install would have been done already.

Post some pictures of your house please

Sorry Claude, should have mentioned that I have a large tree that causes a LOS issue for easy dish locations that are close to the ground. Pretty much the only place with a good LOS on the house is where the current E* dish is mounted - on the chimney chase. Since I already have RG6 cables routed and hidden for this dish, I would like to use what is already there, if possible. I would be fine with a more accessible location for the D* dish if we had a decent LOS. Also, I would have to say that I am very reluctant to run any screws through the new roof that I had to pay $10K for a few years ago.

Here's a thread that covers the LOS issues: http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads/325991-Need-to-get-approximate-azimuth-for-DirecTV-dish-used-with-Genie-for-northern-KY/page4 Post #23 has a picture of the chimney where the current E* dish is located.

Also had questions about the existing runs of coax inside the house. That was attempt #2 - no one told me that they would need RG6 between genies and clients. Documented in this thread => http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads/326453-Is-RG59-OK-to-use-between-Genie-and-mini-clients

Long story short - I should have grabbed a cell # from the first guy who came out and could not complete the install due to bad weather. He seemed to be very knowledgeable and willing to work with me to get my system installed. I understand that a lot of installers have to worry about their job passing QC from DirecTV. I'm just trying to avoid having unnecessary holes in my roof or house and having cables stapled all over my baseboards, etc. Been there done that. I hope that is not making my install a PITA, because I have tried to go out of mmy way to make it easy on them. That's why I spent so much time on this forum researching things.

I have to say that this is a great forum, and I appreciate all the advice and patience everyone has given me. Wishing everyone a wonderful Christmas!

 

[Liquidforce88]

As a D* installer what is required is Solid Copper. As an installer that lives in the real world Copper Clad works just fine 99% of the time. If there are barrel connectors in the line from the dish to the ground block, I would replace the line, at some point they will fail if outside exposed to weather.

Now for your mount. That would be a kill in our area. We are not allowed to get off the ladder to install. If you need service in the winter, how is anyone going to get to that dish. If your doing and HD only install they can use a SWM3 and that does not need a big window, so maybe you can put the dish on the ground on a pole. Also do your cables enter the house before being grounded? If so that is a big no no with D*.

So just from what I have seen on your thread so far that would stop this install for guys that are worried about a QC.

Dish location. No SCC. Barrels. Best bet might be to find a retailer in your area.

 

[twizt3dsist3r]

Just to chime in here after reading a few pages back, about the barrel vs ground block conversation... i agree with all opinions stated by the other techs and would just like to add for some clarification to nontechs that a barrel is not treated the same as a groundblock per directv standards. Its like comparing green apples to red ones. Similiar fruits but still two totally different tastes. Barrels are not approved by any directv internal standards anywhere in any line aside from wallplates. Were told replace the line if its barreled. Groundblocks are optional but grounding itself is not. We have to ground but are permitted to use either a single or quad groundblock or ground directly to the splitter or switch.

Posted Via The SatelliteGuys Reader App!

 

[Claude Greiner]

Any splice point is just another potential location for a failure.

It's best to do as least amount of splices outdoors if possible.

I hate to say it, I even hate to ground outside. I always try to ground indoors if possible.

 

[TominKY]

Update: Got R Done!!

Just wanted to update everyone - DTV sent out one of their more experienced techs on Saturday, and while the existing cable carried the correct rating, he was uncomfortable with the fact that there was at least one barrel connector in there. He was willing to let me sign a waiver and give it a try, but he cautioned that this could be a failure point years down the road that could become a thorn in my side rather suddenly. I elected to just go ahead and let him install a new line from the satellite to the SWM. We were able to run it down the valley of the roof into the gutters and down the backside of the downspout, so it is reasonably hidden. He did go ahead and mount the dish in the same location as the old one up on the chimney. We really don't get that much snow in our area, and when we do it usually melts off fairly quickly. I am going to set up an OTA antenna with the old coax lines so that we have something to fall back on in the event of snow or rain fade.

All in all, once we got the dish location worked out, the rest of the install went fairly smoothly. Thanks to everyone on this forum for all of the informative responses. I sure know where to go for knowledgeable help with my satellite questions! Have a great New Year!

 

[raoul5788]

Woo hoo!!!!!!!! Good news Tom!

 

[Jimbo]

Just wanted to update everyone - DTV sent out one of their more experienced techs on Saturday, and while the existing cable carried the correct rating, he was uncomfortable with the fact that there was at least one barrel connector in there. He was willing to let me sign a waiver and give it a try, but he cautioned that this could be a failure point years down the road that could become a thorn in my side rather suddenly. I elected to just go ahead and let him install a new line from the satellite to the SWM. We were able to run it down the valley of the roof into the gutters and down the backside of the downspout, so it is reasonably hidden. He did go ahead and mount the dish in the same location as the old one up on the chimney. We really don't get that much snow in our area, and when we do it usually melts off fairly quickly. I am going to set up an OTA antenna with the old coax lines so that we have something to fall back on in the event of snow or rain fade.

All in all, once we got the dish location worked out, the rest of the install went fairly smoothly. Thanks to everyone on this forum for all of the informative responses. I sure know where to go for knowledgeable help with my satellite questions! Have a great New Year!

Great to hear you got it up and going !

 

[Joe Diamond]

Just wanted to update everyone - DTV sent out one of their more experienced techs on Saturday, and while the existing cable carried the correct rating, he was uncomfortable with the fact that there was at least one barrel connector in there. He was willing to let me sign a waiver and give it a try, but he cautioned that this could be a failure point years down the road that could become a thorn in my side rather suddenly. I elected to just go ahead and let him install a new line from the satellite to the SWM. We were able to run it down the valley of the roof into the gutters and down the backside of the downspout, so it is reasonably hidden. He did go ahead and mount the dish in the same location as the old one up on the chimney. We really don't get that much snow in our area, and when we do it usually melts off fairly quickly. I am going to set up an OTA antenna with the old coax lines so that we have something to fall back on in the event of snow or rain fade.

All in all, once we got the dish location worked out, the rest of the install went fairly smoothly. Thanks to everyone on this forum for all of the informative responses. I sure know where to go for knowledgeable help with my satellite questions! Have a great New Year!

Tom,
Glad you got it going. Here is a one beer test from year to year. Inspect the cable in the gutter.The wise tech will run cable along the inside of a gutter but will also quick tie it on the gutter spikes so the cable is supported above and out of the water in the gutter. Likewise it is probably ok (maybe better) to run the cable down the inside of the downspout. Experts differ about this and don't consult me. Do not shoot squirrels while eating at the cable running down the roof...wait...wait...wait. Repair squirrel bites with a barrel connector.....

Good luck,

Joe

 

[TominKY]

Tom,
Glad you got it going. Here is a one beer test from year to year. Inspect the cable in the gutter.The wise tech will run cable along the inside of a gutter but will also quick tie it on the gutter spikes so the cable is supported above and out of the water in the gutter. Likewise it is probably ok (maybe better) to run the cable down the inside of the downspout. Experts differ about this and don't consult me. Do not shoot squirrels while eating at the cable running down the roof...wait...wait...wait. Repair squirrel bites with a barrel connector.....

Good luck,

Joe

Joe, I think he zip-tied it to the support bars that are held up by the gutter spikes. I will have to take a look at it, but I asked him to route it so that it would not interfere with cleaning the gutters. I plan to add some gutter guards at some time in the future. Hopefully this won't cause any issues.

By running the cable inside the downspout, do you mean to run it actually inside the spout, or zip-tied to the outside of it but tucked up against the wall? Not a real good way to run it inside my downspout, because it goes underground to a conduit.

 

[Joe Diamond]

Joe, I think he zip-tied it to the support bars that are held up by the gutter spikes. I will have to take a look at it, but I asked him to route it so that it would not interfere with cleaning the gutters. I plan to add some gutter guards at some time in the future. Hopefully this won't cause any issues.

By running the cable inside the downspout, do you mean to run it actually inside the spout, or zip-tied to the outside of it but tucked up against the wall? Not a real good way to run it inside my downspout, because it goes underground to a conduit.

Probably not into the conduit. What I have seen is (1).....running inside the down spout and out a hole near where the cable can again be tacked to the structure (2) and actually, in the case of many cables....installing a second downspout that is exactly like the water down spout but being used as a conduit.

At the same time in the TPs & MDUs I have seen runs with exposed web wire and many barrel connectors all running fine in snow and rain. I would change them out as your man did but this stuff is pretty bullet proof......unlike your roof. Don't shoot the squirrels.

++ Then there was the service call where the installer had run cables in a downspout. The customer had drilled a first floor wall, into the downspout and into one of two cables in the downspout. Very difficult to find!

Joe

+In another life I had a contract to maintain gutters. Wire guards were more trouble than no guards. Blowing leaves out with back pack blowers worked better than hoses. Down spout protectors never did anything and were discarded. Some roofs never got leaves on them so their gutters were never protected.....just inspected for loose spikes and damage by cable & sat guys. The solid "gutter helmet" style turned out to be the most expensive to install but never failed or needed service.

Enjoy,

Joe

 

[TominKY]

I really haven't seen a lot of squirrels around my house. Lots of other critters like deer, rabbits, possums, etc, but very few squirrels.

Not sure what kind of gutter guards i will put on, but as it is now I have to clean them out 2 or 3 times per year. About a month ago I scooped out probably 150 lb of helicopters from the ash and maple trees. Drought stress makes them put out a lot of seed.