Can HD-DVD regain their momentum and succeed?

JoeSp

Supporting Founder
Original poster
Supporting Founder
Oct 11, 2003
2,284
0
Four simply things for HD-DVD to do:

First, follow up the great move with Paramount and Dreamworks by getting Warner to go HD-DVD exclusive.

Second, be the first to a sub $200 player.

Third, get M$ to put a HD-DVD player inside a XBOX360 and not charge an arm and leg for it.

Fourth, find some way to get Disney to at least go nuetral.

Do all of these and you win. Do half of them and you just might reach parity with the BD group.

Do none of them and your current momentum will carry you through XMAS but you will still lag in total discs sales.
 
I dont think Warner would need to go exclusive. Keeping them proving content in general should be enough.

360 addon is less than $200 and there are over 10 million 360s out there. So close to a standalone $200 player so I don't expect that to be a problem in the next couple months for the earlier models. Once the 3-ring fiasco has past a bit people will look to these accessories even more I think.

Rumor came from a Gamestop employee that another SKU was in their system (or there was paperwork for - it sounded shady and unreliable) for a 360 with a 320gb HDD and a HDDVD drive. I don't think this is necessary for HDDVD's success, but might be a natural progression in a year or two when things are a little more clear cut.

I agree that Disney needs to go neutral, hopefully some good momentum going into and out of Fall will help persuade them to do so.
 
I think the second point is key. If HD DVD can get cheap chineese players into Walmart for $150 or less, that would be a great boost to the format.

The Xbox 360 should be removed from the overall picture. I would suspect most people don't want to use a game machine to play movies.

Warner is already very pro-HD. More HD movies with more features. I think they're good. HD just has to make sure they don't go BR only. Same with Universal.

-John
 
An awful lot rides on Disney. And if BD+ is busted quickly, ...........

But Disney has already invested a lot in this dog and pony show they're sending out this fall, extolling Blu-ray.
 
I wouldn't be surprised if Steve Jobs turns out to be the white/black knight that puts this war to rest...

After the a$$ Eisner was ousted and Disney bought Pixar (reportedly, the first driggered the second), Jobs became the biggest Disney shareholder. Obviously, there is not much love between Apple and Microsoft, but there is hardly more of it between Apple and Sony. And Jobs is a shrewd businessman, one have to give him that, "religion" won't influence his decision. Recall Microsoft investment in Apple (ironic, it was $150 million as well). And the first HD DVD authoring tool - before any HD/BD players were released and no BD tools existed - came from Apple. Also, Apple is on BDA board but hasn't made a peep about this whole mess called "format war" for years...

When we start hearing about Apple making noises, then we can hope hidef optical is ready to go mainstream.

Diogen.
 
I think today's article in the highly respected British publication The Economist has some interesting points in answer to the Thread's Question -

Can Toshiba’s David topple Sony’s Goliath?

Then came last Monday’s announcement by two of Hollywood’s more thoughtful studios, DreamWorks Animation and Paramount Pictures. Both have decided to ditch the Blu-ray standard from the Sony camp and release all their future high-definition titles solely in the HD DVD format from the Toshiba alliance. The industry has been abuzz all week over the back-door incentives used to induce the studios in question to abandon Blu-ray. Paramount was rumoured to have received $50m and DreamWorks $100m for making the switch. Other incentives were said to have included exclusive promotion and marketing support for the studios’ new releases.

But that’s business as usual in Tinseltown. And Sony has been a master at pulling off such deals. If both sides offer similar bribes, what was the clincher that made DreamWorks and Paramount favour HD DVD?

For a start, HD DVD is a cheaper system all around. Unlike Blu-ray, which has a much shallower (and therefore a more delicate) data layer, an HD DVD has its digital information etched deeper beneath the surface just like a conventional DVD—and can therefore be stamped out on much the same sort of equipment as a DVD. That translates into a larger profit margin for the studios.

As far as stand-alone players are concerned, the price advantage has allowed Toshiba to outsell the Sony camp by a wide margin. More than 400,000 American households are expected to have HD DVD players by the end of the year, compared with less than 300,000 with Blu-ray players.

Why, then, have Blu-ray discs lately been outselling HD DVD versions by two to one? Because Sony cannily included a Blu-ray player in its latest video-game console, PlayStation 3. And while PS3 has not met expectations of selling 6m consoles in America, some 1.4m have nevertheless been snapped up since their launch last November. Market researchers reckon that most—90% by some reckoning—of Blu-ray discs are played on PS3 consoles. But Hollywood’s studios now realise they can’t pin the future of their precious video sales (today one of their main sources of revenue) on a game console that has failed to ignite widespread interest outside a dedicated circle of hard-core gamers.

That’s not all. Engineers who’ve worked with both formats say Blu-ray is a pig to program. While extremely flexible, its programming language, BD-Java, requires lots of low-level code for even the simplest of instructions. The highly skilled programmers needed to do the job don’t exactly grow on trees. And because of the program’s complexity, even the best produce their share of bug-ridden software.

By comparison, writing software for HD DVD using Microsoft’s HDi interactive technology is a doddle—with one simple command doing the task of scores of lines of BD-Java. More importantly, HDi is the key to HD DVD’s better navigation around menus, and its instinctive ability to interact with the outside world.

Thanks to the internet connection built into all HD DVD players, Toshiba machines allow users to do all sorts of nifty things—like re-edit films, participate in online polls and download trailers. Increasingly, it’s beginning to look as though, after the initial attraction of high-definition’s much sharper picture, interactivity is going to be the deciding factor that determines the outcome of the current format war.

DreamWorks, Paramount and Universal are betting that HD DVD’s powerful tools for interactivity will let them make a tonne of money out of selling all manner of online services to customers who buy their discs. That’s why, ultimately, Toshiba’s David could yet topple Sony’s Goliath in the current video wars.

Any bold / underline emphasis are mine. :)
 
Cochise: Now that's an interesting article. I'd only add that I remember seeing an article, and I believe it was posted here, showing how the Blu-ray disc had fewer layers and was actually cheaper to manufacture. But the initial capital expense of the production machinery would ensure they'd cost more to produce in the short run.
 
Cochise: Now that's an interesting article. I'd only add that I remember seeing an article, and I believe it was posted here, showing how the Blu-ray disc had fewer layers and was actually cheaper to manufacture. But the initial capital expense of the production machinery would ensure they'd cost more to produce in the short run.

Its also been shown that the thinner data layer on BD is actually more scratch resistant. IE: It doesn't translate into being more delicate.
 
Its also been shown that the thinner data layer on BD is actually more scratch resistant.
You mean coating.
The coating on BD disks is 0.1 mm, on HD - 0.6 mm (just like regular DVDs).
This allows for the OPU on BD to be closer to the surface and higher resolution, i.e. more storage (50GB vs. 30GB).
On the other hand, the tolerances on BD are tighter and hence, more expensive with current manufacturing (especially dual layer).

Coating is not format specific: whatever is used on BD can be used on HD (but not the other way around).

Diogen.
 
Its also been shown that the thinner data layer on BD is actually more scratch resistant. IE: It doesn't translate into being more delicate.

Actually, this is how it works:

DVD's are encoded / written at .6mm into the disk. There are 25.4 millimeters in one inch for comparison. HD DVD is written at the same depth, only using blue laser for greater density / more capacity. The .6mm of plastic from the surface of the disk to the data provides provides the protection.

Blu-ray encodes the data at only .1mm - literately right on the surface. Being so close, the blue laser is able to focus much more accurately, resulting denser data / more capacity. That is why BD achieves 25 GB per layer vs. 15GB for HD.

But, with the data being written so close to the surface BD is very fragile. The early prototypes had them enclosed in a cartridge to protect them. But they decided the consumer was not going to go for a cartridge enclose disk, so they came up with polymer hard coating to protect the disk surface.

Having both BD & HD DVD I can say I've yet to see a scratch on any BD discs. There have been promos where the take a Brillo pad to the disc and when cleaned, there isn't a scratch. But then I've gotten some pretty scratched & banged up rental HD DVD disks through Netflix, and they played just fine. So, for me as a consumer, it's a draw. I'm careful with my HD DVD's and they don't get scratched. But if I handle my BD's after a couple of beers and drop one down through furnace / AC floor grate, I don't have to worry. :p

EDIT: And I can see Diogen beat me to it by a few seconds.
 
An interesting post by a person that seems to know the details:
What prevents HD from playing BR and vise versa? - AVS Forum

Exerpts:
"DVD and CD have a numerical aperture (NA) of 0.60. To maintain compatibility HD DVD uses a NA of 0.65 which is close enough that the same lens can be used to focus the infared light (CD), red light (DVD), and blue light (HD)."
"How do BD players playback DVD & CD?
Two lenses are used (or a floating lens on the PS3). The light from the infrared and red diodes are directed through a 0.6NA lens to allow proper focus at the 0.6mm data layer. The light from the blue diode is directed through a 0.85NA lens to allow proper focus at the 0.1mm data layer."
"The interesting fact is that a BD drive that can playback CD and/or DVD essentially has everything it needs (at the optical level) to playback HD DVD also. This does not mean that any BD drive can playback HD DVD because they can't. It means that with little modification and cost a design for a CD/DVD/BD drive could be converted into a CD/DVD/BD/HD DVD drive."

Diogen.
 

The latest spin by the Masters of FUD - The BDA

Blu-Ray-exclusive studios releasing on HD DVD "Inevitable"

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Total: 0, Members: 0, Guests: 0)

Who Read This Thread (Total Members: 1)