Buy a PS3 as a Blu-ray player?

[navychop]

I’m soliciting advice on if I should buy a PS3 to use as a Blu-ray player. Or wait for better, cheaper players, and to see if high def discs are likely to survive.

I’m considering buying one, possibly before the current 8 disc deal at Amazon runs out 10/31. It’s a hard to ignore deal- $500 or $600 gets a player plus what, roughly $200 worth of movies, most of which I would buy or be gifted anyway? Better, cheaper players will come out later, but I will have missed out on months of use of a high def player. If high def discs succeed in the market, I can always buy another, better one, later, and replace a current DVD player with this PS3. And if they don’t succeed in the market, well, we’ll have a few movies to watch for a few years.

I must admit my wife and I are not big movie watchers, but this will keep us out of theaters even more. I dislike going to theaters these days, but I doubt we’ll ever save enough by viewing at home versus going to the theater for it to pay for itself. It’s a demonstration and convenience thing. And there are movies I’ll watch only if I can take them in chunks, with “breathers” in between.

I must keep in mind that I have a single HDMI input on my HDTV, connected to a ViP622, but there are 2 component connections available (one used by current 7 disc DVD player), plus VGA and other analog. There are limited audio connections on my receiver, and I don’t see replacing the receiver any time soon, just for a HD disc player. Note that my current HDTV (JVC 61Z786) is 1280x720 and I won’t be replacing it for many years. A VCR is also connected, but that's not critical. These limited connections lead me to a single player, not one in each format. I’d consider a dual player, to conserve connections, but for the price (& questions about future 1.1 compliance). I understand HDMI switchers, and even running HDMI thru receivers, sometimes (often?) causes handshaking problems.

The receiver is a JVC RX-8020V. It has 3 optical and one coax in, but only one set of 6 analog in (6.1), used by the current DVD player. I don't run video thru it (component only).

I will not take any action until after CEDIA, just in case we have another “surprise” coming. Note that thru purchases and gifts, I already have 6 Blu-ray titles. No one in the household is a gamer, although I’d likely be tempted to buy at least one.

It only seems to have HDMI and optical out. Do both of these output 5.1 (or 7.1- reviews differ), or just the optical? Does it really require a Sony proprietary component video output cable, as PC World claims (& where does it plug in)? Does the “AV MULTI OUT” really only output analog stereo and S-video? BTW, the site is really messed up. Lots of references to 20GB vs 60GB.


Gee- would that built in browser connect to the SatGuys chat room?

PROS
Might really become a home entertainment center, rather than game machine.
Relatively inexpensive, esp w/8 movies by 10/31.
DVD upconverter is presumably better than the one built into my HDTV.
Can play CD, CD-R, CD-RW, SACD, DVD-ROM, DVD-R, DVD-RW, DVD+R, DVD+RW

CONS
“Sony”
Game machine in living room (maybe not that obvious)
Not good on shelf
PiP feature not guaranteed
Bluetooth remote, no good aftermarket IR system yet available, can’t fully use with Harmony 880
Can’t play DVD Audio or DVD RAM
Attracts a lot of dust
Must buy remote separately
Second controller, for two person games, is $50 extra
Might need to keep current DVD player also hooked up, to play DVD Audio discs.

If I buy one- which one? 80GB w/game or 60GB for $100 less? Anything else besides the game and 20GB for the extra money (doesn’t look like it from the web site)? And does the hard disk size really matter? If it does become another DVR, I understand I could just swap out the current HDD for a larger one- say, 1TB. True?

Anything else I should consider?

Thank you for your input.

 

[berck]

You can use an HDMI switch. I have one for my cable box and upconverting DVD player because my TV only has one HDMI. I seem to remember paying about $50 for the switch, which has a remote for changing between sources.

 

[CochiseGuy]

Well, I sure enjoy my PS3, and I have zero interest in gaming. It's super fast for loading discs (both DVD & BD), and does a decent job of DVD upconversion. The $25 "DVD style" remote works nicely. I don't know what it is with you guys & your Harmony uni remotes, I like having 4-5 remotes on the coffee table - seeing if I can remember which does what is my 'early Alzheimer's test' .

And yes, you can get an HDMI switch for around $30 from monoprice.com - I used one for over a year before getting my Onkyo receiver with multi HDMI input.

But, IMO, the biggest problem you will face with a PS3 is audio for your current receiver. The PS3 outputs audio only via HDMI or Toslink/digital optical. You'll get DVD quality audio (Dolby Digital/DTS) multichannel audio through Toslink, but for High Def audio (uncompressed PCM and Dolby TrueHD) you will be limited to only 2 channel stereo because of inadequate bandwidth in Tosklink. For me, HD audio is as important as the HD video and I think you'll be missing out if you don't go with a standalone player with multichannel analog outputs, or upgrade to a receiver with HDMI audio.

 

[riffjim4069]

I love the PS3...I have two of them. It is outstanding BD player, and it plays games too. Even it you're not in to gaming, you can always download plenty of demos and HD movie trailers free-of-charge from the PlayStation Store. Plus, you can always put it to good use Folding@Home every once in a while. IMO the PS3 is a bargain at $499.

 

[navychop]

Well, I sure enjoy my PS3, and I have zero interest in gaming.

Thank you, that's good to know.


It's super fast for loading discs (both DVD & BD), and does a decent job of DVD upconversion. The $25 "DVD style" remote works nicely. I don't know what it is with you guys & your Harmony uni remotes,

It's a "private" thing.


I like having 4-5 remotes on the coffee table -

Actually, I moved to a single remote for my wife and in-laws. They simply couldn't handle multiple remotes, and still call me for certain functions. My father in law has Alzheimer's and can barely function with the one remote. In fact, I don't remember seeing him even change channels last visit.



And yes, you can get an HDMI switch for around $30 from monoprice.com - I used one for over a year before getting my Onkyo receiver with multi HDMI input.

No handshaking problems?


But, IMO, the biggest problem you will face with a PS3 is audio for your current receiver. The PS3 outputs audio only via HDMI or Toslink/digital optical. You'll get DVD quality audio (Dolby Digital/DTS) multichannel audio through Toslink, but for High Def audio (uncompressed PCM and Dolby TrueHD) you will be limited to only 2 channel stereo because of inadequate bandwidth in Tosklink. For me, HD audio is as important as the HD video and I think you'll be missing out if you don't go with a standalone player with multichannel analog outputs, or upgrade to a receiver with HDMI audio.

So my big question here is- are you saying the PS3 optical (or any other optical) will have so much compression with DTS that it is outclassed by what HDMI can do? I'm not sure I understand. I did move from an optical connection on the DVD player to analogs. Is uncompressed PCM/TrueHD that much better? I just put in a new 7.1 speaker set, in prep for a receiver in 2008. I've been eying an Onyko....

Does the PS3 let you specify DTS and later when I get a better receiver, I can change it to uncompressed PCM or TrueHD? I see it's mandatory for Blu-ray discs to have DTS @ 1.5 Mbit/s.

 

[Neutron]

I too am considering the PS3 for Blu-ray.

I'm concerned that as soon as I plunk down $500, everything will go to HD-DVD.

 

[navychop]

Tell me about it. We'll see if the hints about a big announcement at Cedia come thru. If Disney crosses, I guess I'll have 6 unopened BDs up for quick sale. Ah- how likely is that?

 

[navychop]

OK- another post refers to an article that notes that the PS3 meets the 1GB "-live" persistent storage requirement with the hard disk. I guess Sony has a few more firmware updates coming down the road.

 

[JoeSp]

PROS
Might really become a home entertainment center, rather than game machine.

With a wireless keyboard and mouse the PS3 just might make a great home entertainment center. My wife and I really like to see the pictures of my grandson on the big screen.

Relatively inexpensive, esp w/8 movies by 10/31.

It is still $500 but it is one of the best players out there on any format.

DVD upconverter is presumably better than the one built into my HDTV.
Can play CD, CD-R, CD-RW, SACD, DVD-ROM, DVD-R, DVD-RW, DVD+R, DVD+RW

It does a decent job of upconversion. I don't believe it touches the quality of the HQV chip but it is close.

CONS
“Sony”

Check out the reports of repair on this unit. It is built like a brick (not a dead one but a solid one) This new Sony product is definately built with quality in mind.

Game machine in living room (maybe not that obvious)

It does not look like a game machine and that glossy black finish matches my Pioneer 630HD-DVI HDTV. My wife thinks it looks pretty snazzy -- much better then the boxy PS2 and XBOX I used to own.

Not good on shelf

What exactly do you mean by this? You do need to have adeqate ventilation and I put 1" rubber spacers under mine to help it cool better. It never shifts the fan into high anymore after I did that.

PiP feature not guaranteed

Well, you already know that there are two video decoders in the PS3. It freaks me out when I am watching a movie preview and I press the wrong button and it goes out to the XMB. The I press another button and it starts running another preview on top of the other one. My wife gets mad when I do this and I am still not sure what I am doing but she has threatened to take away the remote more the once because I keep doing it.

Bluetooth remote, no good aftermarket IR system yet available, can’t fully use with Harmony 880

If the PS3 becomes very popular (and I believe it will) then you will see alot better IR products come out for it down the road.

Can’t play DVD Audio or DVD RAM

Can't say anything about that except that if you download these products on your PC and connect via your home network your PS3 and share those files I believe that the PS3 might be able to play those files. I am not positive here --- this is not something I have done.

Attracts a lot of dust

You bet it does, but then so does my Pioneer HDTV. The both get wiped with a dry cloth daily. (My mother-in-law does it. She keeps turning on the PS3 and it is on when I get home from work. But she does do a nice job of keeping dust of the PS3. See if you can get you mother-in-law to keep it clean for you!)
Must buy remote separately

Yes, but it is a very good remote.

I would really like Second controller, for two person games, is $50 extra

Wait, the new controllers with rumble should be out by November. Besides, if you are going to play games don't you have to buy an extra controller with most systems?

Might need to keep current DVD player also hooked up, to play DVD Audio discs.

This is probably a definate for you -- especially if you are real big on DVD Audio.

If I buy one- which one? 80GB w/game or 60GB for $100 less? Anything else besides the game and 20GB for the extra money (doesn’t look like it from the web site)? And does the hard disk size really matter? If it does become another DVR, I understand I could just swap out the current HDD for a larger one- say, 1TB. True?

As for as I know you can purchase a much larger harddrive for $100 than the 80GB that comes with the newer product. Save the $100 and get the 60GB. Unless the 80gb comes with the smaller chips then go for the 60 and save.

Anything else I should consider?

Yes, if you do not have hdmi in your AVR then you will be stuck with DD5.1 and DTS5.1 -- although it will be at the highest bit rate possible -- you will not be able to enjoy HD audio from your BD movies (either PCM5.1 or 7.1 lossless audio). The componet out does a good job of passing the high def picture but HDMI seems to do a better job. Also, you are going to have to buy that componet cable (unless you have one from the PS2 -- they are the same). Another reason to buy the 60gb and spend that extra money on other things you want for your PS3.

Thank you for your input.

I hope that this info helps you in your decision. The PS3 is an excellant BD player and if Sony follows thru and provides the updates neccesary to make the PS3 fully BD-Live compliant then this would definately have been an excellnt purchase. Besides, what till you see some of the exclusive games coming for the PS3 -- they look to be awesome!!

 

[navychop]

Well, you already know that there are two video decoders in the PS3.

Actually, no. I must have missed that. I thought it was capable of emulating thru using a couple of cell processors or something. No? Please give me a link to read up on this. That Sony site really seems to make info hard to find.


If the PS3 becomes very popular (and I believe it will) then you will see alot better IR products come out for it down the road.

Probably right.


I would really like Second controller, for two person games, is $50 extra

Hmmm- where did "I would really like" come from? Not my words- busted! Just noting 2nd controller costs extra- but you're right, who includes 2 in the base price? But yep, if we actually use it to play games then we ought to wait for the better ones. I didn't know they were coming out with controllers with the rumble feature. Is anything sacrificed for this feature- other than money?


As far as I know you can purchase a much larger harddrive for $100 than the 80GB that comes with the newer product. Save the $100 and get the 60GB. Unless the 80gb comes with the smaller chips then go for the 60 and save.

The 80GB has less backward compatibility as they dropped the hardware for it, and are doing it all in emulation. Doesn't matter to me, we don't have any old games and in fact aren't gamers at all. Considered getting a Wii as an exercise machine, but we have an elliptical. Anyway, I thought I read somewhere about the 80GB one having smaller/cooler chips, but I can't find it so maybe I am mistaken. Not sure it matters, really, since like you say, the current one has no overheating problems.


... if you do not have hdmi in your AVR then you will be stuck with DD5.1 and DTS5.1 -- although it will be at the highest bit rate possible -- you will not be able to enjoy HD audio from your BD movies (either PCM5.1 or 7.1 lossless audio). The component out does a good job of passing the high def picture but HDMI seems to do a better job. Also, you are going to have to buy that component cable

I'll have to do a search on the posts about handshaking problems with HDMI switchers. Do you have/recommend a receiver that uses (doesn't just pass thru) the HDMI for audio (only way to get 7.1?) and also switches HDMI inputs to output HDMI to the TV? What are such beasts going for now? I can't pay $2,000 for an Onkyo TX-NR905, nor do I want/need the video processing of it and it's brethren.

So it appears the PS3 is, or can likely become, both 1.1 and even -live compliant. I'm almost sold. Or maybe CEDIA will have an announcement of another Blu-ray player of interest.

BTW, do any of the PS3 games have single player, demo or tutorial modes?

Thanks to all for the assistance.

 

[JoeSp]

Yes. on the PS3 Network there are several playable demos for free. Infact, most of the newer games coming out usually do have a playable demo right before they come out to encourage purchase. I have tried several and if you do get a PS3 you need to grab the StardustHD for about $10 off the network. It is a blast!

 

[CochiseGuy]

So my big question here is- are you saying the PS3 optical (or any other optical) will have so much compression with DTS that it is outclassed by what HDMI can do? I'm not sure I understand. I did move from an optical connection on the DVD player to analogs. Is uncompressed PCM/TrueHD that much better? I just put in a new 7.1 speaker set, in prep for a receiver in 2008. I've been eying an Onyko....

Does the PS3 let you specify DTS and later when I get a better receiver, I can change it to uncompressed PCM or TrueHD? I see it's mandatory for Blu-ray discs to have DTS @ 1.5 Mbit/s.

Navy - It's the digital optical/ & digital coax hardware spec itself that limits the max bandwidth to 1.5mbps. So this works fine for DD5.1 (640kbps) and DTS (up to 1.5mbps). But the LPCM on blu-ray's is 4-6mbps, and the HD Lossless audio codecs Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD MA are also 4-6mbps, and only analog or HDMI have adequate bandwidth capacity to handle it.

- Fox & some Lions Gate BD titles have DTS-HD MA audio. A 'neat' feature of DTS-HD MA is that if a player or audio connection cannot support the 'full' lossless DTS-HD MA audio, the 'core' lossey DTS audio can be extracted at 1.5mbps. In fact, currently no BD or HD DVD player can decode or pass thru the full DTS-HD MA. So, my BD's with DTS-HD MA sounded fine through the digital optical connection on my old receiver. In fact, they sounded so good I look forward to the day I can hear the full DTS-HD MA.

- All BD's with PCM audio are required to also have a DD audio track; you select the audio tract on the disc menu. The default is DD. But the DD is only DVD quality at 640kbps, and sounded pretty tinny to me. In fact, even though I was getting only 2 channel, I preferred the PCM.

- I avoided any audio limitations on my XA1 HD DVD player by using the 5.1 analog connections. But, in fair disclosure, while both 1st gen Toshiba HD DVD players had analog output, with the 2nd & upcoming 3rd gen players only the most expensive models have analog output. I believe all BD standalone players have analog output.

- I'm optimistic & hopeful the PS3 can support the BD1.1 profile for secondary PiP audio & video, and BD2.0 "Live" profile for internet interactivity & add'l storage. Plus, considering the product lifespans of the PS & PS2 products, I beleive Sony will provide longer & more aggressive support for the PS3 than other companies will for their standalone players. For these reasons, I chose the PS3 for my BD player even though I have zero interest in gaming and knew I would be limited for audio until I upgraded my receiver to one with HDMI audio.

- HDMI switcher: No handshaking problems. Actually, the PS3 is much more "forgiving" and tolerant in HDMI handshaking. For example, I often like to pause a movie and switch back to satellite TV for a sports game score or news update. The PS3 is perfectly happy to sit there with the movie paused until I switch the HDMI connection back to it, and then start the movie from the pause. In contrast, my HD DVD player throws a hissy fit at ANY break in the HDMI connection - it immediately displays "No HDMI link", then "STOP". When I switch back to it, it has to re-start the HD DVD from the very beginning.

Hope this helps - decision, decisions . . . .