buried cable

[Tyralak]

Not really what??? What are you disputing?

Your statement that a 320 ft run of RG11 with no amplification will work just fine. Look at the math. -60 is virtually inoperable. That's what you'd be dealing with at those distances. And it's unlikely it's a single tuner receiver, installed with no ground block. You will have to take into account the loss from ground blocks, diplexers, and any other connections between the dish and receiver. Also keep in mind that at some point it's going from RG11 to RG6, so you have to account for the loss in the run from the ground block and/or switch to the receiver.

 

[cditty]

Get Dishpro single LNB's and run a wire for each satellite and locate the switch (Dp44) within 100 feet of the receivers.

Before you go to the RG11, try using RG6 Quad Shield cable with a 100% Copper Center conductor.

RG11 is a recommended solution, but the cost of the cable is high and then plan on spending $5 per connectior plus $50 for the tool to crimp the connector.

Always run the cable on the ground before burrying it to make sure everything works.

Claude's suggestion will provide you the most reliable experience... I would use DishPro Single LNB's and STILL use RG11. From the switch to the receiver, use RG6.

 

[upsss]

Your statement that a 320 ft run of RG11 with no amplification will work just fine. Look at the math. -60 is virtually inoperable. That's what you'd be dealing with at those distances. And it's unlikely it's a single tuner receiver, installed with no ground block. You will have to take into account the loss from ground blocks, diplexers, and any other connections between the dish and receiver. Also keep in mind that at some point it's going from RG11 to RG6, so you have to account for the loss in the run from the ground block and/or switch to the receiver.

My original statement, "So, if everything is done just right, you should not have any problems with 320' of RG11 and you don't need any amplifiers or switches." is a conclusion base on some basic facts which you cannot dispute.

As far as your "math", you are off only by ~150% for the RG11 losses and the rest of your "numbers" must be as "accurate" too.

 

[Stargazer]

I wonder if the new 110 units that connect to the 813 receivers be capable of running longer distances.

 

[delta_charlie]

That does not sound like too bad of a price. I wonder if anybody has tried running an electric line and RG-6 line to the dish and have a small shed/building with the receivers there as you could amplify the tv out to the tv's at the house along with sending the UHF remote commands through the coax on really long wire runs. Might not save anything going this route though.

Hi, I like your out of the box thinking. Now you got me thinking why not use a WiFi router and sling the HD to the house over the LAN. Later, DC

 

[Tyralak]

My original statement, "So, if everything is done just right, you should not have any problems with 320' of RG11 and you don't need any amplifiers or switches." is a conclusion base on some basic facts which you cannot dispute.

As far as your "math", you are off only by ~150% for the RG11 losses and the rest of your "numbers" must be as "accurate" too.

Actually, I was only off by a little bit, which isn't bad for rough calculations at 2:30 in the morning. You sure seem to like the quote marks too. Let's go over this step by step, shall we? You might be interested in looking at the cable attenuation calculator found here: Coaxial Cable Attenuation Calculator
RG11 cable attenuates at 4.1 Db per 100 feet at 950 MHz, and at 6.6 Db per 100 feet at 2150 MHz. You ALWAYS build your system based on the part of the system with the most loss, so we go with the calculations at 2150 MHz. A normal reading at the dish for a DPP Triple, is about -31 Db. Assuming a direct run of 320 feet to the termination point (ground block, switch, diplexer) you now have a signal at 2150 MHz of -52.12 Db. This is best case based on proper fittings used, properly installed and torqued. It also assumes decent quality RG11. Remember, that at this point, you're already below the minimum signal the quality standards allow, which is -50. Now, you add the ground block. Assuming the fittings are done right, it's properly torqued and a decent quality ground block is used, the loss should be negligible. Let's now add a diplexer. (assuming this is a dual tuner) A Holland DPD2, which is an excellent quality diplexer has a signal loss on the satellite leg of 1.5 Db. From there, let's say the room is a 50 foot run from the diplexer. Assuming good quality RG6, you will have a loss of 4.85 Db. At last we get to the receiver, and the second diplexer. (or Triplexer) subtract another 1.5 Db. Your signal levels are now sitting at a whopping -59.97. If It's a single tuner, add 3 Db (removing the diplexers) for -56.97 Db. At -55 STB operation is intermittent at best. He would need, (at least) a 14Db amplifier like the one I showed in my previous post. Small bullet amps can work fine too, (They usually are 20Db) but if he's running 3 lines, he would be better off using an auto-leveling 3 port amp. The cost comes out the same, and they amplify more evenly. A 14 Db amplifier puts you at just about -46, which really is fine.

 

[upsss]

Actually, I was only off by a little bit, which isn't bad for rough calculations at 2:30 in the morning.

A 4db difference (BTW it is db not Db) is not "off by a little bit", you are off by 150%!!! Have a nice day.

 

[Stargazer]

Hi, I like your out of the box thinking. Now you got me thinking why not use a WiFi router and sling the HD to the house over the LAN. Later, DC

I never thought about the sling option. Perhaps a higher powered UHF antenna to turn the channels a little further away? Or some type of IR emitters or something.

 

[Tyralak]

A 4db difference (BTW it is db not Db) is not "off by a little bit", you are off by 150%!!! Have a nice day.

You know what the best part of this is? Even with adjusting the calculations from my original estimates (which I admit I used from a previous post without double checking) with the correct ones, I'm STILL right, and you're STILL wrong. You claimed that if everything was done just right, you should be able to build a system including a 320' run of RG11 which functions properly without any sort of amplification. (Or switches, which is a strange comment considering they have nothing whatsoever to do with signal. They have to do with the ability to add more receivers.) I proved, by describing a correctly built system, with 'everything done just right' that the signal at end of line was unacceptable. Do you have any proof to offer that your position is correct? Other than laughably incorrect statements such as this.

@ 2GHz, 200' of RG6 which is the maximum length recommended by Dish has the same losses as 400' of RG11.

200' of RG6 loses 19.38 dB. 400' of RG11 loses 26.4 dB. A correct statement would be "200' of RG6 cable has the same signal loss as 294' of RG11."

(BTW it is db not Db)

Actually, it's dB. Since you're nitpicking about capitalization instead of providing proof to back up your argument, I have one thing to say. Concession accepted.

 

[the mack]

my cottage install has a 450' run of rg6 copper clad coax connected to a dish 1000.2 with 3 single dp lnbs and a dpp44 mounted at the dish. the dish is installed on the island across from mine with the flooded cable on the bottom of the lake.....did not think the distance was that far, but the foot markings on the cable confirmed that.....

not a ideal installation I know, but it has been working fine for the last 2 years connected to my 722k.....signal levels are about 10 points lower at receiver then they are at the dish......

point being that long cable runs do indeed work as I have had no issues with this set-up..,..GL

originally I used the lnb that came with the dish 1000.2 but my receiver seemed to be running a little hotter then usual (maybe not though) and I did not want to take a chance of burning out the receivers power supply, so I switched to the dpp44 set up......

 

[delta_charlie]

I never thought about the sling option. Perhaps a higher powered UHF antenna to turn the channels a little further away? Or some type of IR emitters or something.

Hi Stargazer, I think the Sling box can control the Dish receiver over the network, provided this is true the only wires that would need to be run to the the shed would be the power for the receiver and router. If the Sling box or the receiver with Sling has built in WiFi then the router could be installed in the house. BTW - using a high gain panel antenna for the router WiFi can easily go over 1/4 mile. This could open up some interesting possibilities for someone with a large yard but limited LOS. Later, DC

 

[Les Ellesson]

Thanks for all the suggestions. My plan is to bury 2 lengths of RG11 direct bury cable to my junction box. One final question, Do I need to run a ground wire(3 units in all)?

 

[Stargazer]

Hi Stargazer, I think the Sling box can control the Dish receiver over the network, provided this is true the only wires that would need to be run to the the shed would be the power for the receiver and router. If the Sling box or the receiver with Sling has built in WiFi then the router could be installed in the house. BTW - using a high gain panel antenna for the router WiFi can easily go over 1/4 mile. This could open up some interesting possibilities for someone with a large yard but limited LOS. Later, DC

With the right equipment you can go several miles with wifi. For those that do not have high speed internet then surely there is another solution, something like a Leapfrog system.

 

[Tyralak]

Thanks for all the suggestions. My plan is to bury 2 lengths of RG11 direct bury cable to my junction box. One final question, Do I need to run a ground wire(3 units in all)?

A couple of things. Why are you planning on direct burying instead of conduit? Conduit would protect the cable better, and allow for removal and replacement and/or expandability later on. Also, I would highly suggest running 3 cables, unless you're doing this on a shoestring budget. You say the junction box is 320' away from the dish?

 

[primestar31]

A couple of things. Why are you planning on direct burying instead of conduit? Conduit would protect the cable better, and allow for removal and replacement and/or expandability later on. Also, I would highly suggest running 3 cables, unless you're doing this on a shoestring budget. You say the junction box is 320' away from the dish?

I use that black rolled tubing you can buy at Lowes. Works perfect, no joints, and if you do the ends right, it can't fill with water. It also helps protect from a shovel, in case you forget just where it is exactly. It's fairly hard, so you know when you hit it. I don't have to pay a higher cost for direct burial cable (I use quad-core), and the black tubing is fairly cheap.

 

[delta_charlie]

With the right equipment you can go several miles with wifi. For those that do not have high speed internet then surely there is another solution, something like a Leapfrog system.

Hi Stargazer and the group, even if broadband Internet is not available at the location a high speed LAN (local area network) can still be setup using a standard home router. The LAN could feed audio, video, the sling connection Ect. BTW - the LAN side of a typical WiFi router is very fast - much faster then most home high speed Internet. Later, DC

 

[the mack]

I would highly suggest running 3 cables, unless you're doing this on a shoestring budget. You say the junction box is 320' away from the dish?

especially since there should be 1000' on a roll and you could get 3 lengths out of 1000'......I am sure a roll would be as cheap as buying 650'

 

[the mack]

also if you need some fittings for the rg-11 I have some nice compression ones with built in weather boots I can send you, free of charge, just give me a couple of bucks for shipping....let me know via pm and I will get them out........

 

[Stargazer]

I am curious what software program you would use for transmitting the video and audio wirelessly and how you would go about it. I am sure it is not plug and play.