BD bounces back big -- Nielsen ratings

[JoeSp]

Week ending Nov 4 shows an extreemly strong week for BD and this does not even include the blockbuster Disney and Pixar titles! 71% to 29%!!!! I guess Spiderman3 didn't do too badly at all -- didn't set any records but didn't tank either.

Nielsen VideoScan High-Def market share for week ending November 4th, 2007 - Engadget HD

 

[meStevo]

I'm not sure how this show's as 'extremely strong' since we don't see actual numbers and just percentages of total sales.

From the link, it looks like everyone bought Spider-Man 3, the trilogy (since it's the only way to get the first 2 on BD), and Transformers. The others are so small by comparison that it looks like not much else was really purchased.

Also, this is covered already here a couple days ago, no? http://www.satelliteguys.us/hd-dvd-...high-def-disc-unit-sales-digital-bits-13.html

Like I posted in that thread, these numbers are not going to be useful for a while as holiday promotions and new releases skew them. Regardless of who they benefit, they are merely marketing points and not a barometer of one formats success given what we know about them currently (the unrealized potential of the BD install base, the attach rate of the HDDVD crowd).

Edit: Where does the trilogy figure in?

One thing I am really wondering though, is how they are factoring in the Trilogy in their figures? Is the 135k number including the trilogy, or excluding it? With 70% of the sales of Spider-Man 3, it's hard for me to believe they aren't boasting that as a separate number. Using the numbers in your link above, and the 135k number Sony threw out there, these are some fake numbers to attach based on the ratios:


If Spider-Man 3 BD sales figure of 135k is for the standalone BD package, not including Trilogy:

1. Spider-Man 3 BD 135,000
2. Spider-Man: The High Definition Trilogy BD 97,132
3. Transformers HD 42,417
4. Meet the Robinsons BD 11,907
5. 300 BD 8,856
6. Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer BD 6,790
7. License to Wed BD 5,724
8. The Shining BD 5,548
9. Mr. Brooks BD 5,440
10. 2001: A Space Odyssey BD 5,238

Top 10 sales: 324,052 (232k = Spider-Man 3 titles)


Now.... if the trilogy is not included in the 135k, why isn't Sony touting '135k in BD Spider-Man 3 sales, and an additional 100k in sales from the trilogy'.

Someone have a link to clarify this?

If the 135k number is for Spidey 3 AND Trilogy SKUs:

1. Spider-Man 3 BD 78,512
2. Spider-Man: The High Definition Trilogy BD 56,489
3. Transformers HD 24,668
4. Meet the Robinsons BD 6924
5. 300 BD 5150
6. Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer BD 3949
7. License to Wed BD 3328
8. The Shining BD 3226
9. Mr. Brooks BD 3164
10. 2001: A Space Odyssey BD 3046

Top 10 sales: 188,456 (135,001 Spider-Man 3 titles)

What makes the most sense? The 135k combined number is a sexy consolation if it is the later graph, and it is very strange to not boast 'nearly 100k sales' of the Trilogy so they could tout a 'over 200k Spider-Man 3' figure if the first is as accurate as things can be given current data.

 

[riffjim4069]

I picked up Ratatouille on the 6th...and two other BDs (Meet the Robinson's and Casino Royale) while I was at the store: $10 off and a free PS3 BD remote at BB. Ratatouille and Spider-Man should sell well through the holiday season.

 

[vurbano]

Its all BOGO and freebies. Still running them at Amazon. How long can they give away 1/2 of their movies? Even I bought some last night. It totally skews the numbers and doesnt mean anything except that they are bleeding cash. Toshiba instead is dumping players into the hands of consumers. When they do a month of BOGO their numbers will explode with their superior attach rate.

 

[riffjim4069]

I have 2 cheap new Toshiba HD DVD players, 2 free HD DVDs in the box, 3 free HD DVDs courtesy of Best Buy, 5 free HD DVDs being mailed to my current address, and 5 free HD DVDs being mailed to my new address. Toshiba is dumping low-cost players on the market, giving away (me) 15 HD DVDs, and yet the only HD DVD I plan to buy this holiday season is Shrek the Third. When given a choice, I will probably select BD over HD DVD.

I can't see how this business model is benefiting Toshiba or HD DVD.

 

[vurbano]

I have 2 cheap new Toshiba HD DVD players, 2 free HD DVDs in the box, 3 free HD DVDs courtesy of Best Buy, 5 free HD DVDs being mailed to my current address, and 5 free HD DVDs being mailed to my new address. Toshiba is dumping low-cost players on the market, giving away (me) 15 HD DVDs, and yet the only HD DVD I plan to buy this holiday season is Shrek the Third. When given a choice, I will probably select BD over HD DVD.

I can't see how this business model is benefiting Toshiba or HD DVD.

It is getting standalones into homes which have a higher overall attach rate. Also, none of those free HD DVD's are included in the neilsen numbers. The BD BOGO's are though. I have bought several BOGO's and have 5 free BD's coming to my home, and another 3 for 2 offer and Sony cut its PS3 cost another 100 bucks accross the board after losing 844 million on it last quarter. I ordered Tears of the Sun and Black Hawk Down for 10 dollars each from amazon. I do not see how this business model is helping Sony. Both camps are giving a lot away. As for future buying, I doubt you will spend 30 bucks on a disc. You will buy whatever is cheapest and free just like I will. Doesnt matter the format. Right now the movie deals are on BD. That is why neilsen shows them winning.

 

[JoeSp]

Complaining about the BOGO on BDs is moot as is the crying fowl over Toshiba's $98 sale of the A2 HD-DVD player. This is how each camp is playing out this war this XMAS. The HD-DVD camp is dropping prices on players and the BD camp is dropping prices on the movies. Personally, since I am only going to buy one high def player (unless I decide to get a HD-DVD player and I am waiting till next spring on that decision) -- not three or four -- and I would rather buy high def movies at a great discount like the buy one and get one free, I like the BDA's stragedy better. This is really helping me build my BD library -- now at 79 titles and counting and is helping me save a ton of money!

 

[randers29259]

It is getting standalones into homes which have a higher overall attach rate. Also, none of those free HD DVD's are included in the neilsen numbers. The BD BOGO's are though. I have bought several BOGO's and have 5 free BD's coming to my home, and another 3 for 2 offer and Sony cut its PS3 cost another 100 bucks accross the board after losing 844 million on it last quarter. I ordered Tears of the Sun and Black Hawk Down for 10 dollars each from amazon. I do not see how this business model is helping Sony. Both camps are giving a lot away. As for future buying, I doubt you will spend 30 bucks on a disc. You will buy whatever is cheapest and free just like I will. Doesnt matter the format. Right now the movie deals are on BD. That is why neilsen shows them winning.

So it is ok to loose money on hardware, but not movies. I don't know about you, but I would rather pay a little more up front and have cheap movies.

All is fair in Love and War!

 

[vurbano]

So it is ok to loose money on hardware, but not movies. I don't know about you, but I would rather pay a little more up front and have cheap movies.

All is fair in Love and War!

its fine to lose money however you want too I suppose but do not count free movies as sales in the neilsens. Let me ask you something. Which strategy has long term payoffs? Giving movies away on BOGO's does nothing but inflate neilsen numbers for the week. Lowering player costs gives more movie sales numbers for the life of the player. I think the smarter strategy is Toshibas'. Running BOGO's for them will pay huge dividends when they decide to do it.

 

[roachxp]

Edit: Where does the trilogy figure in?

One thing I am really wondering though, is how they are factoring in the Trilogy in their figures? Is the 135k number including the trilogy, or excluding it? With 70% of the sales of Spider-Man 3, it's hard for me to believe they aren't boasting that as a separate number. Using the numbers in your link above, and the 135k number Sony threw out there, these are some fake numbers to attach based on the ratios:


If Spider-Man 3 BD sales figure of 135k is for the standalone BD package, not including Trilogy:

1. Spider-Man 3 BD 135,000
2. Spider-Man: The High Definition Trilogy BD 97,132
3. Transformers HD 42,417
4. Meet the Robinsons BD 11,907
5. 300 BD 8,856
6. Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer BD 6,790
7. License to Wed BD 5,724
8. The Shining BD 5,548
9. Mr. Brooks BD 5,440
10. 2001: A Space Odyssey BD 5,238

Top 10 sales: 324,052 (232k = Spider-Man 3 titles)


Now.... if the trilogy is not included in the 135k, why isn't Sony touting '135k in BD Spider-Man 3 sales, and an additional 100k in sales from the trilogy'.

Someone have a link to clarify this?

If the 135k number is for Spidey 3 AND Trilogy SKUs:

1. Spider-Man 3 BD 78,512
2. Spider-Man: The High Definition Trilogy BD 56,489
3. Transformers HD 24,668
4. Meet the Robinsons BD 6924
5. 300 BD 5150
6. Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer BD 3949
7. License to Wed BD 3328
8. The Shining BD 3226
9. Mr. Brooks BD 3164
10. 2001: A Space Odyssey BD 3046

Top 10 sales: 188,456 (135,001 Spider-Man 3 titles)

What makes the most sense? The 135k combined number is a sexy consolation if it is the later graph, and it is very strange to not boast 'nearly 100k sales' of the Trilogy so they could tout a 'over 200k Spider-Man 3' figure if the first is as accurate as things can be given current data.

The 130K-135K is combined according to SONY exc insider on AVS and Blu-ray.com

 

[randers29259]

its fine to lose money however you want too I suppose but do not count free movies as sales in the neilsens. Let me ask you something. Which strategy has long term payoffs? Giving movies away on BOGO's does nothing but inflate neilsen numbers for the week. Lowering player costs gives more movie sales numbers for the life of the player. I think the smarter strategy is Toshibas'. Running BOGO's for them will pay huge dividends when they decide to do it.

I would think reducing the cost of movies would be a better long term business decision, with lower cost movies, you would get the volumes up, there are several million PS3 owners who might start buying disk. which would reduce the manufacturing costs, bringing the costs down would increase the profit margin for each disk. Seems to me this would be much more effective then dumping players at $99 at Walmart, when a Walmart shopper goes to buy a disk, I feel they will opt for the cheap DVD, that those cheap HD-DVD players do such a great job up-converting.

 

[vurbano]

I would think reducing the cost of movies would be a better long term business decision, with lower cost movies, you would get the volumes up, there are several million PS3 owners who might start buying disk. which would reduce the manufacturing costs, bringing the costs down would increase the profit margin for each disk. Seems to me this would be much more effective then dumping players at $99 at Walmart, when a Walmart shopper goes to buy a disk, I feel they will opt for the cheap DVD, that those cheap HD-DVD players do such a great job up-converting.

I disagree. From day one its been a race to hardware below 200 dollars. A 5K marathon that Blue ran out of gas in after 1/4 mile. They know they can't get there. Thats why we have the PS3 and the movie BOGO's. I think SOny knew they couldnt get there from the start. Toshiba is not really there yet, but toshiba is slashing prices on models soon to be phased out. Smart business move. They know it will payoff later as movie prices will naturally drop due to more buyers. BD movie prices, on the other hand certainly are not going to go down due to fake sales numbers. Numbers padded with give aways of the movies. It doesnt work that way. You actually have to SELL a lot of product for the price to go down, not give it away. I believe this is a desperation move to convince Warner to come over to BD, but I think Warner can see through it. If you were Warner which side woud you chose? The side that wants you to give your product away for free or the side cutting HW prices so there will be more players out there to play your discs on??????

 

[randers29259]

Yes getting the hardware out there is important, Blu-Ray all ready has it out there, 5.59 million playstation 3s sold worldwide as of september 2007, now all they have to do is get every playstion owner aware that it plays Hi-Def movies, that will be done with advertising, encourage playstation owners to buy disks, that can be done with a good selection of hits and low prices. I think that sounds like a good business plan. I have been monitoring Amazons top sellers list, and the playstation has consistently outsold X-Box 360 since the price drop, by no means a scientific indication of anything except that the playstation is selling better now with the price drop. "The sleeper has awoken"

 

[harshness]

I can't see how this business model is benefiting Toshiba or HD DVD.

You tell us that you have two pieces and you wonder how they are getting units into the wild?

Then again, the RCA CD disc format was much cheaper but LASER disc finally won out. LASER had a distinct quality and longevity advantage that BD doesn't have over its competition.

 

[JoeSp]

Nielsen only counts sales -- they do not count freebees. So those numbers only represent actual sales to a consumer. The BOGO free sales are counted because the retailer is actually selling these titles at half off. They register as 1 purchased and 1 free but the inventories are show as 2 sales at half off and that is what Nielsen is counting.

 

[vurbano]

Nielsen only counts sales -- they do not count freebees. So those numbers only represent actual sales to a consumer. The BOGO free sales are counted because the retailer is actually selling these titles at half off. They register as 1 purchased and 1 free but the inventories are show as 2 sales at half off and that is what Nielsen is counting.

Package it up however you want too Joe. Neilsen is counting product that is being given away for free.

 

[riffjim4069]

You tell us that you have two pieces and you wonder how they are getting units into the wild?

Then again, the RCA CD disc format was much cheaper but LASER disc finally won out. LASER had a distinct quality and longevity advantage that BD doesn't have over its competition.

First...yes, I have two subsidized stand-alone HD DVD players, along with 15 free HD DVDs...and Toshiba/Microsoft is going to get something like six (6)HD DVD sales from me over the next year while BD will likely get 20-30.

Second, BD is the superior format. Since I am the master of my money, and the master of my spending, then I am also the expert of the which format is better suited for me and my family. Blu-ray is king in the only home that matters...mine!

Personally, I am not complaining because I am getting tired of what I perceive to be an ongoing "pissing match" between BD and HD DVD in which both sides lose money, consumers continue to hold tight to DVD, and folks with an open mind actually catch a break. I will gladly take as much free crap and subsidized stuff that Sony and Toshiba/Microsoft can afford to give away.

It has been mentioned that the HD DVD "Stand Alone" players have a higher attach rate than the PS3...so what? The last time I looked, everyone was busy creating an "integrated home entertainment experience" (video, music, photos, computing, web surfing, gaming, etc.). Offhand, who in the heck wants a dumb stand-alone video system these days? Not me...especially when you can buy a $399 PS3 and get all these great features rolled into one outstanding box.

If Toshiba were to add top-notch video gaming and linux capabilities to its $399 line of players, then perhaps I would be singing a different tune. Until then...the only way HD DVD is going to interested me is by giving away the farm. HD DVD has better focus on remaining competitive with BD sales (BD for that matter too) because they can only afford to subsidize hardware and give away media for so long before the shareholders (stockholder and movie studios) question their business model...which, appears to be bleeding both laser red and laser blu these days.

Let the format wars continue...I want 100 free BD and HD DVDs with my next $99 purchase.

 

[gadgtfreek]

I just love threads like these.

 

[riffjim4069]

I wonder how many die-hard BD/HD DVD zealots have secretly purchased a $98 HD DVD Player or $312 PS3...and wont' admit it?

 

[gadgtfreek]

I wonder how many die-hard BD/HD DVD zealots have secretly purchased a $98 HD DVD Player or $312 PS3...and wont' admit it?

Im sure there is plenty.

Ill openly admit I still want the BD STORAGE FORMAT to survive and could give a flip about HDDVD and in the past have hammered HDDVD with my views.

Most who are arguing aren't worried about storage but about movies, which is why I own both at the end of the day. I now have 34 moves in my Netflix lineup and only TWO are SD