Easy, you must have a "capable" TV that supports different standards, HDCP being one of them. Then again, they're sending an HD channel. What the customer ends up with is not their problem.
Bad news regarding Dish and "DRM"
- Thread starter Tyralak
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I agree but I also warned about this months ago and that it was the reason for the delays in getting external storage and the subsequent limitations of it.
All this "it's not Dish's fault" crap is just that - crap. Charlie is selling out to Hollywood just like everybody else. It's the major media providers and equipment manufacturers that needed to say "no" but as usual, greed wins out over integrity.
As for people on this forum (or anywhere else) banding together.....well I'll believe that when I see it. It's been our record of never doing anything more than whine that's enables "D" & "E" to force this stuff down our throats.
The 622/722 will tell you if the HDMI link is secure (press menu twice). You can also play around with the Diagnostics/HDMI screen. Upconverting DVD players also use HDCP.
Around 4-5 years ago I upgraded to a 720p projector (Infocus 7200). Was one of the first models w/ DVI/HDCP (knew this was coming - waited specifically for HDCP). Unfortunately, the HDCP support is flawed. Apparently, the initially specs were not clear, and there was not much to test the port with. One of my friends with an early Samsung DLP is also having problems.
Turns out, it's not Dish that bit me first. Setting up my media pc to play hi-def dvds. Can't run digital w/o HDCP (Toshiba HD-DVD also requires HDCP if using hdmi).
Broke down. Decided it was time to call Greg Lowen and upgrade my projector. A pain, but I will say, 1080 hi-def DVD to 1080 projector over HDMI looks spectacular. Noticably better then Dish HD. I had initially tried hi-def DVD to my 720p projector over component. It didn't look that much better then what I had before.
I do agree that all this is unfair. At this point HDCP on HDMI is completely unnecessary. This is very hi-bandwitch data. There is nothing out there to record it.
Just like we stuck together when HD-Lite was invented? Are YOU gonna cave to Dish on HDCP like you did for HD-Lite?
Yep, this is going to do nothing to stop piracy of movies. HD-DVD and Blu-Ray have both been cracked. Although I'm not sure exactly what the point is. Full-resolution copies are going to eat a ton of disk space, unless you burn them to optical discs which cost almost as much as the movies themselves.
The thing that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever is the part about not making digital copies of up-converted DVDs! So what? Why would there be any market AT ALL for that? DVD copying is ubiquitous now, and blanks are cheap, so anyone wanting to see an upconvert could just get a copy of the SD version and play it on their own upconverting player.
I've been saying for some time that all this is literally insane, and tantamount to religion, and everyone has been ignoring me. Hopefully someday the public will wake up and demand rational government back, but I doubt it'll happen soon. I don't see any of the presidential candidates addressing the issue, for example.
I agree totally. What is going to happen to my component and Firewire Mitsu CRT-RPTV? Did I spend 2.5K and $10 per mo. to view Standard Definition? It is only 4.5 years old. I suppose I will have to shell out money for a new 1080p
with at least 2 HDMI jacks. Or buy into Blu-Ray...:upForget the digital conversion, hey at least I have (free cable QAM Locals)w/a a cable modem service and OTA (minus stupid Tribune Seattle FOX).
Scott is absolutely right. We need to tell the programmers NO. We also need to tell our satellite companies to stand up to the programmer and tell them that this is completely unacceptable to their subscribers. If this happens on a lot of content it is going to really, really hurt the video provider industry.
What you guys dont get is that the same day that HDCP kicks in on Dish it will also start on DirecTV and other providers as well.
Again this is not something Dish (or anyone) wants to do, they are being FORCED to do it.
And BTW I was not the HD Lite guy, I didn't care about HD Lite as I knew why they were doing it, it was a choice of more channels looking very good or the same 5 channels looking really really good. I would take the more channels looking very good.
For many HD is like sex or an all you can eat buffet, you always want more.
Again this is not something Dish (or anyone) wants to do, they are being FORCED to do it.
And BTW I was not the HD Lite guy, I didn't care about HD Lite as I knew why they were doing it, it was a choice of more channels looking very good or the same 5 channels looking really really good. I would take the more channels looking very good.
For many HD is like sex or an all you can eat buffet, you always want more.
Whatever sounds good at the time, eh ?
http://www.satelliteguys.us/frontpage-news/48370-say-no-hd-lite.html
I'm not convinced that a user boycott of the channels will do any good in this instance. I don't think enough people will bother to mobilize and do it to affect the channel's bottom lines enough to make a difference.
At the same time, I'm not sure what basis there'd be for litigating. These content providers are providing a service for a price. The scope and restrictions of their service are determined by their contract with Dish. If we as end users don't like the limitations, we are free to forgo the service. Perhaps, individuals under contract could go after Dish for representing that their receivers will provide HD quality via the component output during the length of the contract (but I haven't read the terms that came with my receiver upgrade and I'm not a lawyer so something like that seems unlikely to succeed).
Given that, I think we need to proceed on as many fronts as possible. I suggest you call/write your elected representatives (and yes, laugh away and complain about special interests and how we will never be heard, but it's better to complain to them than to simply complain here).
I could see a boycott coupled with lawsuits and political pressure as possibly inducing some compromise on this issue. But even then I don't hold out much hope. There are too many people out there who don't care enough to get mobilized to make a difference.
Do I think what is happening is good? No. But I'm a bit too much of a pessimist to believe it can be prevented. I hope someone can prove me wrong (especially on the litigation point because even a temporary injunction will delay implementation and that will allow time for more people to get HD and then notice a quality change and complain).
Dan
At the same time, I'm not sure what basis there'd be for litigating. These content providers are providing a service for a price. The scope and restrictions of their service are determined by their contract with Dish. If we as end users don't like the limitations, we are free to forgo the service. Perhaps, individuals under contract could go after Dish for representing that their receivers will provide HD quality via the component output during the length of the contract (but I haven't read the terms that came with my receiver upgrade and I'm not a lawyer so something like that seems unlikely to succeed).
Given that, I think we need to proceed on as many fronts as possible. I suggest you call/write your elected representatives (and yes, laugh away and complain about special interests and how we will never be heard, but it's better to complain to them than to simply complain here).
I could see a boycott coupled with lawsuits and political pressure as possibly inducing some compromise on this issue. But even then I don't hold out much hope. There are too many people out there who don't care enough to get mobilized to make a difference.
Do I think what is happening is good? No. But I'm a bit too much of a pessimist to believe it can be prevented. I hope someone can prove me wrong (especially on the litigation point because even a temporary injunction will delay implementation and that will allow time for more people to get HD and then notice a quality change and complain).
Dan
If more people get HD now, they won't notice any problem. I don't think you can find a new HDTV that doesn't have HDMI/HDCP, so new buyers will be covered (as long as they use their HDMI inputs). It's only a part of the existing HD user base that this will affect, and the percentage of affected users will drop as more and more people purchase HDTVs (all which come with HDMI/HDCP now, AFAIK).
This may change if it turns out that many HDTVs have faulty HDCP implementations, but even if that is so, I'll bet the average customer won't notice (or care) about the downrezzing.
Everyone should stand on their own principles and not be afraid to voice them. Sometimes great sacrifices must be made in order to do just that.
You may have to do without premium movie channels run by businesses that must comply with studio mandates or lose that business to someone who will comply with the studios. Profit and the bottom line have become more important than the customers who generate that bottom line. Evidence of this is the way new shows are cancelled because the show is not able to capture X number of viewers as determined by people who may or may not represent your preferences and therefore cannot generate sufficient advertising to cover the bottom line. Thus we will never know what could have become of Firefly, etc...
Boycott the pay channels and write brilliant, professional letters to Dish, the pay channels, and the studios explaining your stand on these principles. Voice your stand and stick with it because it is right to do so in your life.
I do this with other principles that guide the way I live, regardless of pop culture and moral relativism. It's who I am and will not change. I have hope that things can change and right will become right again but I hold no illusions that humans will actually make right decisions versus convenient, pleasurable decisions.
So I don't forsee the millions who think they are watching HD already because SD is being seen on their HDTV or the millions who have HD programming and an HDTV but watch it over a composite or s-video connection and think they are watching HD ever even noticing that DRM has made it not possible to watch true HD over non-compliant connections. They will never know and never notice. Not unless the mass media sees a profit in exposing it to the millions with their hyperbolic treatments saved for politics and poorly understood medical issues that could sound like the end of the world is here like MRSA.
Short-sighted, quick profit mentalities condemn us to a sorry mediocrity filled with senseless barriers to improvement and armchair experts who tell the willing that those who say different are mentally ill trouble-makers.
Fortunately, it's just tv in this case.
You may have to do without premium movie channels run by businesses that must comply with studio mandates or lose that business to someone who will comply with the studios. Profit and the bottom line have become more important than the customers who generate that bottom line. Evidence of this is the way new shows are cancelled because the show is not able to capture X number of viewers as determined by people who may or may not represent your preferences and therefore cannot generate sufficient advertising to cover the bottom line. Thus we will never know what could have become of Firefly, etc...
Boycott the pay channels and write brilliant, professional letters to Dish, the pay channels, and the studios explaining your stand on these principles. Voice your stand and stick with it because it is right to do so in your life.
I do this with other principles that guide the way I live, regardless of pop culture and moral relativism. It's who I am and will not change. I have hope that things can change and right will become right again but I hold no illusions that humans will actually make right decisions versus convenient, pleasurable decisions.
So I don't forsee the millions who think they are watching HD already because SD is being seen on their HDTV or the millions who have HD programming and an HDTV but watch it over a composite or s-video connection and think they are watching HD ever even noticing that DRM has made it not possible to watch true HD over non-compliant connections. They will never know and never notice. Not unless the mass media sees a profit in exposing it to the millions with their hyperbolic treatments saved for politics and poorly understood medical issues that could sound like the end of the world is here like MRSA.
Short-sighted, quick profit mentalities condemn us to a sorry mediocrity filled with senseless barriers to improvement and armchair experts who tell the willing that those who say different are mentally ill trouble-makers.
Fortunately, it's just tv in this case.
For many HD is like sex or an all you can eat buffet, you always want more.
True. But then withholding sex (and HD) will make men do all kinds of things to get it. The longer the wait. The more things men will do without hesitation. Oh yes, and in a pinch men do have hands.. uh.... HD-Lite.
The EFF sucsessfully litigated against the so-called "broadcast flag" which is essentially "DRM" for OTA digital broadcasts. It's likely the same legal precidents would apply.
Contracts are only valid if what you are contracting to do is legal. That's where the litigation comes in, to attempt to show these "DRM" tactics to be illegal, the same as was done with the "broadcast flag". Even though the Supreme Court has stated that customers have a right to certain non-infringing uses of content, laws like the abominable "DMCA" were designed to facilitate copyright abuse, and circumvent fair use rules. Which is where additional legislation will come in. I urge everyone here who's concerned about this to ask your representatives to support H.R. 1201 The "Fair Use Act" https://secure.eff.org/site/Advocacy?cmd=display&page=UserAction&id=271
This will help all of us a ton if it's passed.
I think I'm gonna sub to the $10 premium HD movie add-on pack on Feb 1, so that the day they start downrezzing component I can call up and go WTF... hdcp... cancel... ? I will then start looking at hacks for the day they enable this on regular hd channels. If I can't find a reasonably priced solution, I will up and WTF... hdcp... cancel... on thier ass.
That bill will never pass with Bush in office. It's RIAA/MPAA ridden and their flagship priority to kill. Even TPB supports that bill and last I heard Obama was a big supporter as well. In the meantime Warner Bros, Disney, Sony, Paramount, Universal, you name it are siding with the **AA...
"Free" content will never be seen so long as government dictates socially acceptable content and activities. For every person willing to spend a buck to buy something, there's something willing to spend two bucks to write a law that raises the price or makes it illegal.
DRM is already set to go. The instant a court order comes to flip the switch, we'll enter the DRM pay-for-TV age.
No help
With that attitude then nothing will ever change. So at least railing against the machine will help. I reported this to E.F.F. awhile back and nothing has happened but if we keep trying something may.
With that attitude then nothing will ever change. So at least railing against the machine will help. I reported this to E.F.F. awhile back and nothing has happened but if we keep trying something may.
