ATSC 3.0 Discussion

[cpalmer2k]

You are assuming personal selectivity of which channels. The boxes might just pick up the first couple. Or get confused and get none.

I’ll wait until ATSC 3 gets a genuine foothold here, and full featured STBs come out to handle whatever an ATSC 3 station can throw at them.

I watch very little OTA anyway.

I think you're confused about what we are saying. These boxes are no different than any other DVR type device you buy today. If you have an antenna and plug it into your TV your TV only has one tuner, so you can only watch one thing at a time. If you have a TiVo, Tablo, or other OTA DVR it is the same as your Genie or HD-DVR. You can only view as many channels as your box has tuners at one time.

These boxes behave the same way. They can pick up any over the air station broadcasting in ATSC 3 or regular ATSC so long as the signal is strong enough in your area for your to receive it. The only limitation is that you can only watch/record as many things as they have "tuners' available. In this case this technology is actually a step forward. Right now no OTA dvr can record/view more than 4 things at once. This box is actually a step forward. They'v'e designed it where the ATSC 3.0 tuners can view or record any 4 channels you choose simultaneously, plus two traditional ATSC feeds on top of that.

The HDHomeRun app and other third party applications like Channels make it possible for you to watch/record from the HDHomeRun devices on a multitude of different platforms.

 

[bluegras]

Sinclair to Launch First ATSC 3.0 Station in Las Vegas on May 26 | TV Technology

 

[cpalmer2k]

Sinclair to Launch First ATSC 3.0 Station in Las Vegas on May 26 | TV Technology

Wow.. four networks sharing the same channel. Everybody but Fox.

I'm wondering what will end up happening here when our stations start experimenting. Our ABC station is owned by Sinclair, and our CBS station by Nexstar who have a sharing agreement in place. The problem is the ABC affiliate is hard for people in part of our market to receive, and the CBS station is difficult for those in other parts to receive. Their original plan was to have one station air all the ATSC 1.0 feeds and the other all the ATSC 3.0 feeds. Either way it is going to leave somebody in a bind reception wise though.

 

[mwdxer1]

I have talked to several engineers. It looks like the majority of stations will be cramming more sub channels in. The pq will be better than 1.0, but still more sub channels as viewers are asking for them. Like Portland OR, many sub channels are not available like Heroes & Icons, Movies, Buzzr, Decades, Retro, Start TV, Circle, to name a few.

 

[N5XZS]

I would not be surprised if this happens here in Albuquerque's TV market.

Now I am wondering if the PBS will focus on high quality 4k video mixed with 2 minor PBS SD as opposed to commercial stations?

 

[Jim5506]

You can count on picture quality to be down the list a bit below how many channels we can cram in.

Our NBC station was 1080i with no sub channels for years, now they have 5 sub-channels in addition to the .1 channel.

 

[mwdxer1]

Wow.. four networks sharing the same channel. Everybody but Fox.

I'm wondering what will end up happening here when our stations start experimenting. Our ABC station is owned by Sinclair, and our CBS station by Nexstar who have a sharing agreement in place. The problem is the ABC affiliate is hard for people in part of our market to receive, and the CBS station is difficult for those in other parts to receive. Their original plan was to have one station air all the ATSC 1.0 feeds and the other all the ATSC 3.0 feeds. Either way it is going to leave somebody in a bind reception wise though.

The

Wow.. four networks sharing the same channel. Everybody but Fox.

I'm wondering what will end up happening here when our stations start experimenting. Our ABC station is owned by Sinclair, and our CBS station by Nexstar who have a sharing agreement in place. The problem is the ABC affiliate is hard for people in part of our market to receive, and the CBS station is difficult for those in other parts to receive. Their original plan was to have one station air all the ATSC 1.0 feeds and the other all the ATSC 3.0 feeds. Either way it is going to leave somebody in a bind reception wise though.

This should be interesting for the Portland market. I have read with the equipment pq should not be affected much. The Sinclair station in Portland will be hosting the CW in 1080i.
2.1 KATU ABC 720p
2.2 METV 480i (Dropping from 720p)
2.3 Comet 480i
2.4 Stadium 480i
32.1 KRCW CW 1080i

Then the Nexstar station
6.1 KOIN CBS 1080i
6.3 Get TV 480i
6.3 Bounce 480i
32.2 Antenna TV 480i
32.3 Court TV 480i
32.4 TBD 480i

Then Tegna KGW will be hosting some of the 49 fare. KOPB PBS may be carrying one commercial channel, Meredith KPTV will carry some others. Both 32 & 49 will be used for 3.0.
This all happens on June 9th we are now told.
3.0 will not be coming to translators for a long time, but the stacking is great giving us several channels we have not had here on the OR coast before. Going from sixteen to twenty five. I am really looking forward to it.

 

[N5XZS]

Well, here in Albuquerque's TV have 2 stations that's carry 1 HD and 4 SD sub channels.

KLUZ-DT 14.1 Univision 720p
14.2 Quest 480i
14.3 HSN 480i
14.4 Court TV 480i
14.5 Dabl 480i

KASY-DT 50.1 My Network 720p
50.2 Escape TV 480i
50.3 GET TV 480i
50.4 COZI TV 480i
50.5 Antenna TV 480i

I have yet to see any other stations that would cram more than 4 subchannels in SD aside from 1 main HD channel.

 

[bluegras]

Trust me we will see 4k video coming.in the article that I posted today from las vegas.they said more stations are coming that will have 3.0.

 

[navychop]

Can I interest you in a fixed means of crossing a body of water without getting wet?

 

[primestar31]

Can I interest you in a fixed means of crossing a body of water without getting wet?

You living in a van again, down by the river, and next to a bridge?

 

[dweber]

Wow.. four networks sharing the same channel. Everybody but Fox.

With 4 networks sharing one channel none of them will be 4K. So much for claims that ATSC 3.0 will provide 4K video.


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[primestar31]

With 4 networks sharing one channel none of them will be 4K. So much for claims that ATSC 3.0 will provide 4K video.


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People just don't seem to understand HEVC transmissions. Just like with Orby tv, and I still see them posting the "you just can't do it" stuff over and over.

You can NOT think of it like our ancient Mpeg-2 transmissions. It's brand new technology. HEVC uses like 1/3TH the bandwidth of old-school Mpeg-2, to be capable of transmitting the SAME picture.

So, YES, ATSC 3.0 is going to be quite capable of doing all this, without any issue at all.

 

[dweber]

People just don't seem to understand HEVC transmissions.

You can NOT think of it like our ancient Mpeg-2 transmissions. It's brand new technology. HEVC uses like 1/3TH the bandwidth of old-school Mpeg-2, to be capable of transmitting the SAME picture.

HEVC has better compression but 4K HDR transmissions have at least 5 times more data than 1080i SDR. So if a station is broadcasting three 1080i SDR channels and one 4K HDR channel they will be out of bandwidth.


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[TheKrell]

HEVC has better compression but 4K HDR transmissions have at least 5 times more data than 1080i SDR. So if a station is broadcasting three 1080i SDR channels and one 4K HDR channel they will be out of bandwidth.

Exactly. And when greed meets HEVC, you know what most stations will do and PQ be damned.

 

[Trip]

People just don't seem to understand HEVC transmissions.

Indeed, this post makes it clear you don't understand it.

At a typical modcod combination, ATSC 3.0 supports 5 1080p streams, which is equivalent to approximately 1 2160p ("4K") stream. As HEVC compression improves, might that increase? Possibly, but if you think that CBS, NBC, ABC, and CW will all be providing 2160p on the same signal at the same time out of the gate... well, I'll direct you to the previous bridge sale offers.

All of that said, none of this is actually news. All the second-hand and third-hand sources keep talking about ATSC 3.0 from a 2160p perspective, but if you talk to actual broadcasters, the target video quality is 1080p. Almost no production is done in 2160p and there aren't plans to move to 2160p right now outside of maybe special events (see the Super Bowl). One of the features of ATSC 3.0 is the ability to broadcast a 1080p signal and then use streaming to provide the extra bits to bump it to 2160p. When 2160p finally does roll around, I expect you'll see it done that way in many cases--there's simply no business case for turning off 4 1080p channels in order to boost the fifth one to 2160p.

- Trip

 

[mwdxer1]

Some may run 4K, but many will not. It is just too tempting to have all of that available bandwidth and not use it for more diginets, as it brings in more money.

 

[Voyager6]

People just don't seem to understand HEVC transmissions. Just like with Orby tv, and I still see them posting the "you just can't do it" stuff over and over.

You can NOT think of it like our ancient Mpeg-2 transmissions. It's brand new technology. HEVC uses like 1/3TH the bandwidth of old-school Mpeg-2, to be capable of transmitting the SAME picture.

So, YES, ATSC 3.0 is going to be quite capable of doing all this, without any issue at all.

Please see this discussion from last year. See the proposed ATSC 3.0 broadcast allocations for Phoenix.

Article: Charter doubtful about the future of ATSC 3.0

https://www.tvtechnology.com/atsc3/charter-doubtful-about-future-of-atsc-3-0

www.satelliteguys.us

 

[raoul5788]

Yep, I remembered the backeast had a few analog pay TV stations broadcast scrambled nightly back in the 80's and the 90's on the ancient NTSC video.

Funny thing though you can naked women since, It's so soft scrambled!

Channel 18 in Hartford CT was a part time pay channel in the early 60s.

WUVN - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[cpalmer2k]

Some may run 4K, but many will not. It is just too tempting to have all of that available bandwidth and not use it for more diginets, as it brings in more money.

The Charlotte market is particularly bad for that right now... I can't imagine what they will do when ATSC 3 launches.

WCCB runs 8 channels- their primary 720p channel, and 7 subchannels.
WJZY runs two 720p channels- FOX and MyN, and 6 SD subchannels.