Apple flare issue

[John Kotches]

Don:

I have no problem with the possibility of this being a user error. unfortunately, Apple has some history of blaming design flaws on the user, specifically antennagate.

at this point, the only empirical evidence presented shows the 4s lacking the purple skew and there were several changes in the camera assembly. I don't think it's the lens flare that's the issue, but rather the purple skew.

there are methods of analyzing whether it's the hardware, software or the photographer. I think 1 of the simplest tests would involve using a bright light source that is UV filtered.

anyway, this is probably all moot as you're already convinced that the problem is the photographer.

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[bhelms]

Curious - Does anyone here report that the 4S has similar haze but as white light? Seems the primary (?) difference between the physical cameras is the use of the sapphire lens in the 5, and perhaps the coating. Here's an interesting perspective, somewhat confirms John's take:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/oct/08/iphone5-purple-haze-explained?intcmp=239

 

[John Kotches]

Curious - Does anyone here report that the 4S has similar haze but as white light? Seems the primary (?) difference between the physical cameras is the use of the sapphire lens in the 5, and perhaps the coating. Here's an interesting perspective, somewhat confirms John's take:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/oct/08/iphone5-purple-haze-explained?intcmp=239

They ran a nice simulation with the sapphire cover to show that it starts skewing towards purple on the 4s as well. That said, it's early on in cameragate. I figure another week or so and the truth will out itself.






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[TheForce]

John- I agree with most of the article by Charles Arthur except his experiment. I don't think his test shows anything about the iphone5. It only shows he can create a lens flare, which can be done with a number of filter techniques. He should have known this if he is much of a photographer. I don't even know if the flare he created with his added filter on the 4S is similar in nature to the one people are complaining about.

You are correct that I feel this is more of a user issue than a design flaw. However, I am quite open to a real test of the same scene shot with an iphone 5 vs. an iphone 4s and the 5 exhibits a much worse image.

Some decent comparisons between the two I found below. Where's the flare. Look at the last panorama and surprise, the 4s appears to have a hazier glow around the sun.

http://www.imore.com/iphone-5-vs-iphone-4s-camera


This is the worst looking purple flare I have seen posted:

http://www.google.com/imgres?start=...38&tbnw=231&ndsp=34&ved=1t:429,r:4,s:100,i:16

 

[John Kotches]

Your last reference is exactly that, the iphone5 looking much worse than the iphone 4s specifically due to the purple skew.



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[bhelms]

No question the 5 has the purple skew whereas the 4S does not. Clearly both cameras have flare. If you eliminate flare, do you also eliminate the purple skew?

Not defending Apple here (I own neither camera, er, phone). However I'm also of the mindset that if the purple skew is a distraction, it's pretty far down on my list. I won't rank phones based on camera performance. (The 5 lacking NFC is more of a concern to me as I'm trying to decide which platform/OS to consider seriously.)

 

[Tyralak]

jj abrams causes lens flare?

Of course! Haven't you seen any of his movies?

 

[dangue]

Your last reference is exactly that, the iphone5 looking much worse than the iphone 4s specifically due to the purple skew.

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But looking at the two photos, they appear to be taken from slightly different angles or locations (with the 4S turned away from the sun more). Foreground tree on the right overlaps the background trees more in the 4S photo than the 5 photo. This difference probably impacts the lens flare magnitude and possibly even hue.

 

[John Kotches]

Of course! Haven't you seen any of his movies?

Yes, but are he and the cinematographer going for that look.




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[TheForce]

John- Yes and I did post the images to show that I am not who you thought I was, a person who has his mind made up before the evidence is in. I own neither phone camera in question but have quite a few iphone4s images shot by my daughter who knows how to take a picture. The last reference is a good example of the purple refraction in the flare. I went looking for that. In my opinion this is indeed caused by the coating on the front glass. I can create such effects here with a Cokin special effects kit designed to color flares and add haze as demonstrated. For all I know the purple coloration could have been done with a Cokin filter held in front of the iphone5 as the look is very similar. The tricks are as old as my early days shooting 16mm film in the 70's. I don't dig in my heels to be right. I rather question how tests are done to be sure there is no funny business and if legit, change my assessment.

bhelms- by examining the many other images in the first link I feel the purple haze is directly related to the flare caused by off angle sunlight. Notice one set of images with artificial light source absent the haze and flares. This should tell you that the flare is an effect or defect, generated in only special positions and angles of the offending light source. So, I stand by my claim earlier that if the flare is not what you want, you can easily eliminate it by shading, changing the angle slightly or flagging the light from interfering with the shot, or in other words, learning how to take good pictures. This is NOT a flaw in the design since many cameras can generate flare when held in a certain way. It is a normal result of this particular camera and is easily corrected by avoiding poor technique.

I don't see the flare as an iphone5 issue. I believe that Apple may be able to fix the purple haze by changing the coating on the front lens piece but I don't know if that is worth the effort. They will need to determine if the issue is ubiquitous or rare isolated cases. My bets are that they will just test for and fix the purple in the iphone6.

 

[TheForce]

http://www.google.com/imgres?start=1...r:4,s:100,i:16

If you look very closely at the iphone4s flare, there is indeed some purple refraction in the shot too. The difference is that the iphone 5 shot is zoomed in closer making the sun much bigger, which could cause the purple blooming to expand exponentially. We don't know but maybe if the 4s shot was zoomed to the same size it too would have a huge purple haze around the flare.

Thanks to dangue, I took a much closer look at the two and agree with his statement that the test is not a fare one to show the 5 has it and the 4s doesn't.