Another Newbie needs HELP getting "Quality" and using DSB 5700

[Lak7]

I am assuming that your Signal Finder is the cheapo version .... it's a Signal Finder, it reacts to "signals", of all shapes and forms. Does not mean it's the exact Satellite or Type you are looking for. Since you are pointing to the sky, I'll assume it's a Satellite Signal. But it could be a very powerful DishNet or DirecTV Sat too. That is why it's very important to list the Transponder you are using in the Setup Menu. The "Quality" meter only lights up when you have an Active Transponder selected in the Setup Menu and you are pointed to the Correct Sat. It will not light up just because you are pointed at a Satellite.

This is not easy at first, there is a ton of new things you have to learn.

 

[ipsolutions]

OK, so in order to get a reading on Quality, I have to be pointed at the satellite that the receiver is expecting. Not only that, I have to have selected an active transponder from that satellite. So if I think I am pointed at AMC9, I should first try to aim the dish a best I can with the signal finder, then select each transponder in turn, to see if I get a quality signal?

 

[ipsolutions]

Now have one satellite, how to get more??

Thanks for the help, everyone. I did a blind scan, as someone suggeseted, and I thought I was doing it on AMC5. The scan picked up six channels, which I can now see on my TV, but can't get more sats. It looks like the satellite transmitting is AMC6, not AMC5, according to this list FTAList.com - AMC 6 (72.0 W) channels. How could I scan for AMC5 and get AMC6 channels?

I really don't understand how to operate this receiever. I tryto do more "blind scans" but it tells me to "go to satellite." When I go to the motor screen or the antenna setup screen, and put in my longitude, it goes back to AMC6 before doing the scan?? in fact, it often returns to amc6 without being asked...

I do hope I am nearly there. I'd really like to get Galaxy 19, but i guess this is at least progress.

 

[Jim S.]

The receiver doesn't care what the satellites are named, only what their coordinates are.

Do all the satellites you're trying to receive have their correct orbital longitude entered in the satellite list? You didn't accidentally put in your longitude for one of the satellites, did you?

When you were setting up the motor, did you tell it to go to a satellite first, then swivel the motor on the pole til you hit the correct azimuth? Otherwise, the motor won't know where it's pointing.

 

[ipsolutions]

Yeah, I am really missing the basic idea of how this receiver works. There is no "installation" or "setup" screen where I tell it my longitude. The owner's manual tells me to put my longitude into the satellite setup screen for a satellite, but that doesn't make any sense to me, since all satellite locations must be should be known relative to my longitude.

So I reset the receiver to factory defaults, and tried 1) using the "USALS" method, but that doesn't make any senseto me either because you again choose the USALS option on a satellite setting screen. Again, I don't understand why USALS should be satellite specific.

Then I reset again, and tried another approach 2 ) maybe it expects me to point it at a satellite and tell it which one it is, and it will then infer my longitude.
So is this what I should be doing: Reset to factory defaults, and tell the receiver to go to AMC6, which I know I can get. Then I go outside and adjust the dish position. Based on that, it infers my longitude??

At any rate, each satellite on the menu has already a pre-populated longitude field, which I can change, but I can't imagine why I should, since it should know what the coordinates are based on one of the two approaches.

The receiver is very poorly documented, and I haven't found any useful information from googling it. Just a page giving the slightest clue about how this is supposed to work would be so helpful. Instead, it just says things like "choose something from the list of available options..."

 

[ipsolutions]

and regarding the AMC5 vs AMC6 business, doesn't the receiver need to know the identity of the satellite in order to choose the right frequencies and settings for detecting the transmission? That is, if I tell the receiver to scan transponder 1 of AMC5 and the dish is pointed at AMC6 instead, won't it fail to detect anything, because it is using the frequencies, symbol rates, polarizations, etc for AMC5 instead of AMC6?

 

[Jim S.]

If you do a blind scan, it doesn't care whether you have any transponders entered for the satellite or not, as it just scans the entire spectrum looking for signal peaks and then checks whether the peaks are transponders it can decode.

I just looked up the manual for your receiver, and it's got me confused too! I see what you're saying about it having a longitude entry field for each satellite -- but if you go by the picture on that page, I believe that that must be the orbital longitude of the SATELLITE. I don't know where you enter YOUR longitude, but there MUST be a way, otherwise USALS mode wouldn't work!

OK, I think I found it! It's just in a stupid place... If you have the satellite motor selection set to USALS, then under Motor Setting there's a place to put your latitude and longitude. You need to have the latitude because of perspective issues -- a degree of orbital longitude near the horizon won't be the same linear distance on the sky as a degree of orbital longitude at the height of the arc.

To answer the question of why USALS mode can be selected independently for each satellite, two things: first, some people say that they need to use DisEqC 1.2 mode to accurately locate satellites at the fringes of the arc for their location. It's never made any difference for me, and frankly, if you have to do that, either your aim is off or the USALS algorithm in your receiver isn't the bona fide USALS algorithm! Second, some people have a combination of motorized dishes and fixed dishes, so for the fixed dishes they'd set the motor option to "off" and select the appropriate switch options instead.

So anyway, now that that's out of the way, here's the way to aim a dish with USALS:

Set your motor latitude as accurately as you can by hand. Set your dish altitude scale to the declination value that your motor manual will tell you how to calculate from your latitude. Turn the motor on the pole to face south as close as you can by hand.

Then, if your motor isn't at its zero position, use the receiver's motor setting menus to tell it to go there. Verify it at the motor. If it's not there, move it there with the motor manual controls, then reboot the receiver.

Now, select the satellite you wish to aim for (it should be near south to make things easier, but doesn't have to be if the rest of the settings on your dish and motor scales are accurate.) The receiver will turn the dish to the appropriate location. Make sure an active transponder is selected. If you've lucked out and aimed the dish dead south before turning on the motor, you'll have signal. Probably, you won't. Go out and turn the motor in azimuth very slowly til you get a signal. Then scan the satellite and see if you get all the transponders you expect. If not, try moving the azimuth very slightly again, and if that still doesn't get you dead on the satellite, try the motor elevation or the dish elevation (very slowly -- best to just lean on it first without loosening any bolts to see if it makes a difference!) Then, go to other satellites and see if they're strong too. If not, again either the motor elevation or dish elevation are slightly off. Repeat until all the satellites you care to receive are located accurately.

 

[ipsolutions]

OK, Jim, thanks for the response and clarification. When I use USALS, I have to go in the "antenna setting" and choose USALS for a particular satellite. This satellite then shows up in "motor settings" with the USAL options. This is where I should put in my lat and longitude? Does the receiver then use these numbers to calculate all other sat locations? Do I just need to designate one satellite as USALS, or all of them? Is it necessary that the satellite I designate as USALS is the one I am pointed to near due south?

Thereafter, under "motor settings" I should be able to select another satellite (which will be designated DisEq rather than USALS if I only selected one to be USALS), go to it, and scan it?

 

[Jim S.]

If you want to find all the satellites automatically (assuming your mast is level and your angle scales are correct), you need to designate all of them as USALS. To use DisEqC 1.2 positioning, you need to find all the satellites manually and save their positions when you do.

 

[WhyMe1]

How to install an HH Mount DiSEqC USALS Motor? Applies to DG280, DG280B, DG380, STAB HH100, HH120, Moteck SG2100

Google is your friend! Google

 

[SatelliteAV]

Great motorized install guides are available in the SatelliteGuys FTA FAQ.

Check out: http://www.satelliteguys.us/fta-mpeg2-faqs/190527-how-set-up-motorized-ku-band.html

 

[ipsolutions]

I hope I am making some progress.

I can now find multiple satellites, but not without adjusting the dish by hand. It worries me that there does not seem to be any detente or locating feature on the dish bracket that locates it relative to the motor stem, so it could be off by a few degrees. Am I missing something? I am located at longitude 78.6, using a WS9036 offset dish and DSB 5700 receiver with a Powermax SG9120 motor. I can see AMC6 and Galaxy 19. Can anyone provide a systematic way for me to make these adjustments? I have tried just fooling around with azimuth, dish elevation and mounting bracket position, and spent all day messing around to no avail.

Another question: When I get Russia Today, it says that it is scrambled. Is this the case?? I get audio but no video. That would be a terrific blow, as that was a primary reason for my getting satellite gear!!

I can still only pick up 7 or so of the 183 channels on G19. Is that poor signal quality, imperfect alignment, bad weather, or what?

Thanks a ton, everyone.

UPDATE: Could what I thought was Galaxy 19 really be some other satellite? I am getting a "Pentagon Channel" on it, and I do not see such a channel listed on Galaxy 19. If this is really a different satellite, it would have messed up my alignment efforts today. Maybe that is why RT was scrambled?

 

[cyberham]

...Another question: When I get Russia Today, it says that it is scrambled. Is this the case?? I get audio but no video. That would be a terrific blow, as that was a primary reason for my getting satellite gear!!

I can still only pick up 7 or so of the 183 channels on G19. Is that poor signal quality, imperfect alignment, bad weather, or what?

Thanks a ton, everyone.

UPDATE: Could what I thought was Galaxy 19 really be some other satellite? I am getting a "Pentagon Channel" on it, and I do not see such a channel listed on Galaxy 19. If this is really a different satellite, it would have messed up my alignment efforts today. Maybe that is why RT was scrambled?

Pentagon Channel is on SES 1 at 101W. Russia Today may be available scrambled on this satellite also. But Russia Today is FTA on Galaxy 19 at 97W for sure. Was watching it today on 12152 H 20000. If you are only getting 7 channels on 97W, you are definitely not aimed at it properly. You should be able to scan in over 275 TV channels from 97W alone.

 

[Jim S.]

I can now find multiple satellites, but not without adjusting the dish by hand. It worries me that there does not seem to be any detente or locating feature on the dish bracket that locates it relative to the motor stem, so it could be off by a few degrees. Am I missing something?

My motor stem has a hole in it that accepts the pivot bolt from the dish bracket. I never really gave any thought to how you're supposed to make sure that a motor tube without a hole and/or a dish bracket that doesn't clamp directly over the pole that way are centered. I guess you'd just have to get it as close as you can by eye.

 

[WhyMe1]

I hope I am making some progress.

I can now find multiple satellites, but not without adjusting the dish by hand. It worries me that there does not seem to be any detente or locating feature on the dish bracket that locates it relative to the motor stem, so it could be off by a few degrees. Am I missing something? I am located at longitude 78.6, using a WS9036 offset dish and DSB 5700 receiver with a Powermax SG9120 motor. I can see AMC6 and Galaxy 19. Can anyone provide a systematic way for me to make these adjustments? I have tried just fooling around with azimuth, dish elevation and mounting bracket position, and spent all day messing around to no avail.

Another question: When I get Russia Today, it says that it is scrambled. Is this the case?? I get audio but no video. That would be a terrific blow, as that was a primary reason for my getting satellite gear!!

I can still only pick up 7 or so of the 183 channels on G19. Is that poor signal quality, imperfect alignment, bad weather, or what?

Thanks a ton, everyone.

UPDATE: Could what I thought was Galaxy 19 really be some other satellite? I am getting a "Pentagon Channel" on it, and I do not see such a channel listed on Galaxy 19. If this is really a different satellite, it would have messed up my alignment efforts today. Maybe that is why RT was scrambled?

Have you tried setting up the dish without the motor? Just set the angle and skew and then use a compass to point the dish to the azimuth. Try this first.

Satellite Look Angles Satellite Heading Calculator Azimuth Elevation Skew Tilt LNBF Latitude and Longitude values

One question though....... is the pole you're using perfectly plumb? That is the first thing that has to be absolutely perfect. If not plumb then nothing else you do matters.... especially when using a motor.

 

[WhyMe1]

Could you take photos of the dish and the motor and maybe a few shots of the surrounding area so we can make sure it's properly set up and that you can actually see the Clarke Belt?

 

[ipsolutions]

Thanks for the info, the satellite I was looking at was indeed SES1 (AMC4).

I will bring my camera next time and photograph.

Meanwhile, I can now pick up multiple satellites, incl AMC4 (SES1), AMC6 and AMC9 (I think that's what it is, it has only the Bloomberg channel on it).

So I am getting some sats across an arc of the sky, but I still can't find Galaxy 19. It is at 97W, so with me at longitude 78.7 longitude it should be at about 20 degrees on my motor stem, right? And pretty much between AMC4 at 101W and AMC9 at 83W, both of which I can see. I don't see anything at 20 degrees on the signal finder where 97W should be. There are trees in the area, but I don't know it they're a problem. Since I was getting some sats I figured I was OK, but maybe this is not the case and the trees block certain sats?

Can I go outside a certain time of day and look at where the sun is, to get an idea of what views need to be clear? Seems like at spring, around this time of year the sun's arc should be about co-planar with the Clark Belt.

I can raise the position of the dish pretty easily, as it is mounted on my antenna pole which goes to the roof on the side of my house. To within the measurement accuracy of my level, it is plumb. But I thought since I was likely to be futzing with this for a while (and I was right about that!) that it would be much easier to figure out at ground level.

The software on this receiver also seems pretty old, it lists lots of sats that are no longer there or go by a different name.

Any suggestions?

 

[cyberham]

Lots of help will be coming in replies to you. Just wanted to mention that 101W is normally referred to as SES 1 now (not AMC 4). And Bloomberg is only on SES 2 at 87W. AMC 9 at 83W has PBJ, Tuff and RTV.

 

[SatelliteAV]

Are you using USALS or DiSEqC 1.2 for the motor control? If you are setting up using DiSEqC 1.2, it is a total crapshoot......

Mounting a c-clamp design dish mount onto the motor tube complicates the install. Try driving the motor to the reference (zero) position then measure the distance from each side of the dish to the motor elevation bolt. This will determine if the dish is approximately centered on the motor mount.

A quick way to tell if the trees are blocking the satellite signal is to get behind the dish and look up the LNBF arm. Does the arm clear the trees as the motor swings the dish? If so, the satellites are slightly higher than the angle that the LNBF arm is pointed. Satellite signals do not pass through trees or branches. If the satellite is behind even a branch, the signal will likely be attenuated enough to prevent reception.

 

[Jim S.]

Can I go outside a certain time of day and look at where the sun is, to get an idea of what views need to be clear? Seems like at spring, around this time of year the sun's arc should be about co-planar with the Clark Belt.

If you're around 40 degrees latitude, the sun is aligning with the satellites right now. From my location, we're right in the middle of the period in which interference is likely, which is about a week. (The diameter of the sun is about half a degree, and the beamwidth of the antenna is about a degree and a half.) If you're further south, it'll be closer to the equinox. If you're further north, you may have missed it already.

To get exact times for a specific satellite, go to Sun Outage Calculator