ANIK F2 - Thy End Is Near

[harshness]

Moving the channels allowed for the Satellite to save power.

Moving channels off of Anik F2 does nothing to change its useful lifespan.

Power (electrical energy) isn't the issue as that comes from the Sun and there has been no mention of problems with the solar array or the storage batteries.

There is a limit on the amount of broadcast signal power allowed from each transponder and that precludes sending a much hotter signal to prop up the new "fringes" created by the large variances of the beam coverage centers.

While they could spread out the remaining channels over the vacated transponders, I doubt they will bother as a matter of managing expectations.

 

[harshness]

I don't see any reason for the signal to decrease between now and the end of the propellant, even for users in Mexico or northern Canada.

What you're missing is that the Southern users will, at times, see the coverage areas effectively move away from them. Other times, the signal will likely be stronger than it was before. What Shaw is doing is making sure than the certain occasional loss in signal strength is less of an issue by using more robust modulation and error correction schemes.

Whether that helps (or hurts) in Mexico (or anywhere south of the 42nd parallel) is clearly not something Shaw is concerned with as evidenced by -Jim-'s quote.

 

[-Jim-]

Moving channels off of Anik F2 does nothing to change its useful lifespan.

Power (electrical energy) isn't the issue as that comes from the Sun and there has been no mention of problems with the solar array or the storage batteries.

There is a limit on the amount of broadcast signal power allowed from each transponder and that precludes sending a much hotter signal to prop up the new "fringes" created by the large variances of the beam coverage centers.

While they could spread out the remaining channels over the vacated transponders, I doubt they will bother as a matter of managing expectations.

It's really about changing to DVB-S QPSK modulation. (But I have read somewhere it does save power.)

As per Shaw Direct: "changing the modulation scheme to DVB-S QPSK, 2/3 FEC on Anik F2 would, barring any degradation of Anik F2
beyond that currently anticipated by Telesat, increase the period of survivability of satellite receive equipment"

I don't think Shad Direct (SD) wants to put any firm expectations out there, as they don't want to cause their Customers base to panic. Before this move my family, in anticipation of the earlier previously predicted F2 failure, moved to all 8xx receivers (from 6xx) as the earlier receivers cannot handle the HVEC codec that will be required when everything is on the G1 Bird. This recent change is just a band-aid in the interim that allows SD to convince it's Customers to switch out old receivers and get it's receiver supply in order.

It's a long story, but we have a cable failure (caused by a neighbor) so our install is making use of only 3 feeds to the multiswitch. We don't want to dig up (especially in real winter) and replace the cables. Sorry to say, but the failure of F2 faster would actually be to our benefit, as then only 2 cables would be required to feed the multiswitch to receive all the channels when they are on G1.

 

[bayguy]

What you're missing is that the Southern users will, at times, see the coverage areas effectively move away from them. Other times, the signal will likely be stronger than it was before. What Shaw is doing is making sure than the certain occasional loss in signal strength is less of an issue by using more robust modulation and error correction schemes.

Whether that helps (or hurts) in Mexico (or anywhere south of the 42nd parallel) is clearly not something Shaw is concerned with as evidenced by -Jim-'s quote.

Well Shaw and Telesat can't talk about ppl outside of Canada so of course they didn't mention us in their quote. That doesn't mean they don't care. I bet they'd like to keep the snowbirds but they know they can't do that forever. It's probably thousands of customers??

 

[-Jim-]

Well Shaw and Telesat can't talk about ppl outside of Canada so of course they didn't mention us in their quote. That doesn't mean they don't care. I bet they'd like to keep the snowbirds but they know they can't do that forever. It's probably thousands of customers??

I agree Shaw Direct would like to keep all their Snowbirds as Customers, but the reality is forces beyond their control won't allow it. I expect quite a few Customers may find other suppliers both in the Southern Provinces, and at home. It's just a commercial reality.

I was surprised Shaw Direct didn't use the F2 demise to move their technology to multiplex all pending G1 signals so that they could go to a single cable install for all receivers. I guess, while it's technically achievable, that old commercial reality makes it not viable. I do think that their costs will drop substantially with only one Bird, making them profitable with less Customers. I wonder if a single LNB / Dish combination is on their horizon.

 

[harshness]

I don't think Shad Direct (SD) wants to put any firm expectations out there, as they don't want to cause their Customers base to panic.

The expectations that I was referring to were more along the lines of a general increase in picture quality as this is usually associated with fewer channels per transponder.

 

[ckinninger]

Thanks everyone.

Moving forward, I would expect Shaw to use the approximately 5 remaining months to gradually migrate channels to G1. By carefully selecting which channels to migrate and when, they can better control the customer service call volume and installer appointments. They won't gain any advantage by letting the all the current channels stay on F2 until they completely drop out.

 

[bayguy]

Thanks everyone.

Moving forward, I would expect Shaw to use the approximately 5 remaining months to gradually migrate channels to G1. By carefully selecting which channels to migrate and when, they can better control the customer service call volume and installer appointments. They won't gain any advantage by letting the all the current channels stay on F2 until they completely drop out.

Yes and also like Jim said Shaw can't move to G1 right away b'cuz they don't have enough 800 rcvrs for every body. It will take them a while to replace all the 600s. They can't move all the channels to G1 w/o using HEVC right?

 

[-Jim-]

Yes and also like Jim said Shaw can't move to G1 right away b'cuz they don't have enough 800 rcvrs for every body. It will take them a while to replace all the 600s. They can't move all the channels to G1 w/o using HEVC right?

Yes, going to the HEVC codec gives them the ability to squeeze all of their channels onto G1 as the programming takes approximately half as much room as old MPEG-4 it is replacing. I expect they'll move channels in transponder groups. Probably starting in early Spring 2023 - but I'm just guessing.

 

[harshness]

They won't gain any advantage by letting the all the current channels stay on F2 until they completely drop out.

Remember that some time before the propellant is completely depleted, a carefully controlled move to a graveyard orbit remains to be executed. They can't just let it wander off.

 

[nelson61]

The current info I read is F2 should remain operational for SD to at least mid 2023. I know the move to G1 will be impactful for Snowbirds below about Oregon but years ago US regulators pushed the Canadian government to stop these illegal transmissions onto their territory. Bell was able to comply much quicker than SD. The use of G1 will bring SD in compliance.

The ITU assigns Geostationary transmission frequency right from a longitude to countries depending on their geographic location.

Canada, USA, Mexico, and a bunch of the islands are all in Region 2..

Canada owns the Region 2 transmission rights for their licensed frequencies for the entire region and have the legal right to broadcast over the entire region.

 

[nelson61]

Good point, but I don't think it is wobbling (or inclined) as much as it will, and foxfox numbers are quite low (as bayguy has pointed out for that area).

Anyhow, you can find out when it is in the "Centre of Box" by using the app at Telesat's website when re-adjusting your dish:

Telesat Tools

app.telesat.com

Since Anik 2 has licensed receiving antennas in the US, they will be filing wirh the FCC for an inclined orbit.
And after it happens, the wobble will slowly increase, no overnight change.

So watch the FCC filings which will include the date when they want to start widening the station keeping box.

Nothing will change until that license issues.

 

[harshness]

And after it happens, the wobble will slowly increase, no overnight change.

Why will the wobble slowly increase?

Wouldn't it make more sense in terms of longevity (propellant economy) to spread the propellant evenly over the remaining useful life of the satellite?

 

[Keith Brannen]

Why will the wobble slowly increase?

Wouldn't it make more sense in terms of longevity (propellant economy) to spread the propellant evenly over the remaining useful life of the satellite?

From what I have read, and seen on sites which show the paths of inclined satellites, over time the inclination increases when station-keeping (north-south) is discontinued, which creates the inclination, which appears as a figure-eight pattern to viewers on the earth (going above and below the centre of box). Station-keeping is only done (west-east) to keep the satellite in its slot. That is where they will save fuel. It could be that they may also only do minor station-keeping adjustments (north-south) to lessen the amount of inclination drift. Depends on how much fuel they have, how much they want to save, and how long they want to keep the satellite viable for Shaw Direct and its customers.

 

[harshness]

Depends on how much fuel they have, how much they want to save, and how long they want to keep the satellite viable for Shaw Direct and its customers.

It doesn't seem reasonable to assume that the propellant is going to last as long as Shaw's need for it does. Perhaps they've got huge stockpiles of HEVC capable receivers being deployed at a furious pace but I'd guess that's not going to overlap with the end of service life of the bird.

I reason that propellant savings is the primary criterion in everything they do until the graveyard orbit is reached.

 

[Keith Brannen]

It doesn't seem reasonable to assume that the propellant is going to last as long as Shaw's need for it does. Perhaps they've got huge stockpiles of HEVC capable receivers being deployed at a furious pace but I'd guess that's not going to overlap with the end of service life of the bird.

I reason that propellant savings is the primary criterion in everything they do until the graveyard orbit is reached.

The changes done to the transponders will help to mitigate the switch to a more inclined orbit, and allow more time for a changeover as they will save fuel and be able to keep the services going for longer. How long remains to be seen, as there has been no information about how long it will be effective. Any conjecture on your part is sheer speculation.

Both the HEVC capable receivers (800 and 830 models) have been around for quite a while (at least 5 years, after doing a very quick minimum check) so some should already be OK. I have one 800 and one 630, which will need to be replaced. No panic mode here.

 

[fsbrian]

At what degree of inclination does the service really start to be affected? When I first started looking it was as 0.100 degrees. Over the course of two weeks it looks to be about 0.145. At this rate it will be at 1 degree inside of a year.

Would the satellite be usable at all at 1 degree inclination? 0.5 degrees?

 

[harshness]

Imagine the cone of a flashlight beam and what happens to its coverage area as you shake the flashlight a little. Now imagine that the flashlight is 22,000 miles away and you tip it even a tiny bit. Each hundredth of a degree is perhaps a 20 mile shift of the coverage area. If you're within 80 miles (give or take) of the edge, you're probably going to see the signal come and go.

 

[Keith Brannen]

At what degree of inclination does the service really start to be affected? When I first started looking it was as 0.100 degrees. Over the course of two weeks it looks to be about 0.145. At this rate it will be at 1 degree inside of a year.

Would the satellite be usable at all at 1 degree inclination? 0.5 degrees?

Up to 0.15 is normal before station-keeping is done (and we don't know when they will stop, or limit any possible stationing keeping). See this site for a good explanation:

Inclined orbit satellite operation

Harshness' example of a flashlight is a good one, and the above link also explains that and typically the variation requires a much larger +/- than it is currently before major signal loss. As well, without any north-south station-keeping the inclination increases at the rate of about 0.8 degrees per year.

 

[nelson61]

The FCC licensed Anik F2 for a +/- 0.05 degree cube.

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