An Apology to the FTA Community

[Scott Greczkowski]

Are you speaking for Rick?

The facts speak for themselves, I love how he tried editing things there to suit his story. Anyone with half a brain who has been watching knows what he has done and been doing.

I am open to change, but I will not be black mailed, sabotaged or threatened into making changes. Those type of tactics have the exact opposite effect with me.

No one has black mailed, sabotaged or threatened him here. We have just been speaking the facts and have told Rick how to fix the issue, its a simple fix. (I am starting to believe Rick see Black Helicopters over his house a lot...)

The more he hold off on fixing the issue the more he is killing the hobby for all of us.

I said it before but will say it again... Rick runs a great site, but in order for this to stop and these issues from popping up he needs to put the feeds information behind a login to prevent the spiders from indexing it.

If he loves this hobby like we ALL do then there is no other choice for him really but to protect the feeds. That it... no ifs, ands or butt's.

 

[stanleyjohn]

No scott! I havent had any talk with him about this issue.Im just saying how i feel about all this.You and others may know more than i do about rick!but all this negative talk produces nothing but more negative talk.I still think there may be a way out of this mess for both sides.Call me a softee! but i beleave there is good in most people!.

 

[pendragon]

There are some nice exceptions, but we are generally not the intended targets of satellite feeds. Being as many of these feeds are available in a commercial context, whether OTA, by subscription or otherwise, we take advantage of businesses that uplink unencrypted feeds by not providing them compensation. Encryption exists for a reason, but there are costs and support issues that arise when it is used. Providers make determinations for encryption with a variety of criteria and that is their right.

I have no problem paying for what I receive. I already pay two DBS providers dearly, have OTA and would happily to pony up for higher technical quality (as in feeds) if it were available. I am grateful when I can receive an open feed, but if it goes encrypted I have no cause for passion. Most likely I will get it from one of my other providers.

What does annoy me are self-righteous people who believe they have rights for open feeds to the exclusion of all others. Many of the emotional outbursts on this forum are tied to a belief people are losing something they never really had. Is this really just about getting stuff for free? If you have to watch NASCAR or college football, be prepared to pay for it and stop crying. I find it hilarious this latest uproar is only about getting OTA shows a few hours before the general populace. No one is being denied the right to watch the show.

Rick has a very stable base of experienced feed hunters and willing readers. They must be doing a good job if SatGuys WUT members feel the need to frequent his forum in spite of their deep convictions. I don't get the sense that the folks at Rick's fear he is destroying FTA, because if they did the site would become meaningless. Rick's is not the only site that openly posts feeds, but he is simply a convenient target because he has been successful. Any provider that cares about posted feeds will monitor wherever they choose. If WUT was the go-to place for feed hunters, it would be monitored. It probably already is. Believing that if Rick implemented a simple login requirement, all monitoring would promptly cease is simply over-the-top ignorant bliss.

I do believe the encryption line in the sand moves back and forth, but not on a day-to-day basis. This is a free country and if a provider does not encrypt, everyone is as entitled to watch as anyone else. Getting mad at Rick because he will not form a secret society like WUT will not make him change, nor should it. Personally I'd rather have more people in the FTA community than try to protect the interests of a self-chosen few. I believe the former is far more critical to FTA's survival.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

Thank you Rick for your post.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

There are some nice exceptions, but we are generally not the intended targets of satellite feeds. Being as many of these feeds are available in a commercial context, whether OTA, by subscription or otherwise, we take advantage of businesses that uplink unencrypted feeds by not providing them compensation. Encryption exists for a reason, but there are costs and support issues that arise when it is used. Providers make determinations for encryption with a variety of criteria and that is their right.

Yeah right, and then there have feeds that have been out there for a long time that suddenly get scrambled just because they were posted to Rick's site. (That's what CBS is saying.)

Pendragon you entire argument has nothing to do with this entire debate, your just trying to throw some clouds in the way to confuse issues when the real issue is being ignored completely by your post.

Aren't you tired of losing feeds? Aren't you tired of people always blaming Ricks when a feed get scrambled? Yeah me too.

Again there is a simple fix for this which Rick won't do... Why? I wish I had that answer for you.

In my opinion it is sad to me to see Rick Caylor killing the Free to Air hobby by not doing what best for the industry. It is also sad to see sheep like you blindly defending him without even looking or talking about the facts or the issue at hand. You are trying to bend things into something in what its not and in the end you look foolish for it. But unlike Rick, I let you speak your mind without deleting your post or banning you.

Thanks for playing.

Rick I know you love this hobby as much as I do. Its time to stand together. If you honestly believe that post feeds that can and are indexed by the spiders are not causing things to get scrambled then PROVE IT by requiring a log in to view the feeds! This way if something gets scrambled no one can blame you or your site anymore as you have taken step to protect what ALL of us Free To Air users love most. The only person to do this Rick is YOU.

 

[stargaze]

Wow, such animosity between the two sites.
I see that nothing said here would ever change the minds of some but if the people who do use the other site begin asking for a change then maybe it would happen. The ones who know the truth would not be posting info out in the open after the last episode with the CBS feeds and then what happens, no more FTA feeds being posted? Those who know the truth would not be doing so.

Personally I do not know of any "self-righteous people who believe they have rights for open feeds to the exclusion of all others." What is being discussed is if having a simply login would deter this type of event from happening again. While I feel it may slow it down a bit I do not see how it would affect people to not post more and increase the FTA community.

If it is done then no one can come back and blame the other site as they tried their best. It is a win-win situation for everyone and that is not a bad thing nor does it mean someone is being blackmailed into doing something.
All it means is those in charge took a step back and looked at everything and decided to try a change to see if it helps everyone who is playing the game.

 

[stanleyjohn]

Wow, such animosity between the two sites.
I see that nothing said here would ever change the minds of some but if the people who do use the other site begin asking for a change then maybe it would happen. The ones who know the truth would not be posting info out in the open after the last episode with the CBS feeds and then what happens, no more FTA feeds being posted? Those who know the truth would not be doing so.

Personally I do not know of any "self-righteous people who believe they have rights for open feeds to the exclusion of all others." What is being discussed is if having a simply login would deter this type of event from happening again. While I feel it may slow it down a bit I do not see how it would affect people to not post more and increase the FTA community.

If it is done then no one can come back and blame the other site as they tried their best. It is a win-win situation for everyone and that is not a bad thing nor does it mean someone is being blackmailed into doing something.
All it means is those in charge took a step back and looked at everything and decided to try a change to see if it helps everyone who is playing the game.

: Well said! maybe theres still hope that a happy ending for both sides can still happen.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

What is being discussed is if having a simply login would deter this type of event from happening again. While I feel it may slow it down a bit I do not see how it would affect people to not post more and increase the FTA community.

If it is done then no one can come back and blame the other site as they tried their best. It is a win-win situation for everyone and that is not a bad thing nor does it mean someone is being blackmailed into doing something.

This is the point I am trying make. By making Ricks site require you to log in before viewing posts will not stop stuff from being scrambled because it was posted on the internet, but it may help and it will also stop people from blaming Ricks whenever a feed gets scrambled. And at least most people who love this hobby so much will say that at least he tried protecting the feeds. That is all that I ask, and in reality it is all anyone can ask.

We have a feeds area here and its a trust thing, we try trusting people without knowing who they really are. And as we have seen even here when you trust people people can violate that trust. But I feel good knowing that we tried to keep the info safe and keep the hobby alive for our members.

All I am asking is that for Rick to PLEASE try to protect the feeds for ALL OF US. Not for SatelliteGuys Members, Not for Rick Forum users... FOR ALL OF US WHO LOVE THIS HOBBY.

 

[Lak7]

By making Ricks site require you to log in before viewing posts will not stop stuff from being scrambled because it was posted on the internet, but it may help and it will also stop people from blaming Ricks whenever a feed gets scrambled.

Well said!

 

[pendragon]

Thank you Rick for your post.

Scott, I have the greatest respect for what you have built here at SatGuys. Your hard work and unselfish sacrifices have benefited countless souls. I joined Rick's forum shortly after SatGuys and am a proud contributor to both. I try to adhere to the rules of each and I hope some have benefited from my feeble efforts.

If you believe I am a blind supporter of Rick you are wrong. Similarly to what a few others have indicated, I am disturbed by the bad blood that this forum and you share for Rick. Nevertheless each of you are free to run your forums as you please.

The evidence offered with regard to the CBS feeds is circumstantial; it does not prove cause and effect as has been pointed out by others. The insider info sounds strictly hearsay, from the lower company levels at best. I can only say thank goodness the Internet is not a court of law. Even if everything FeedMan says and concludes is true, it would be his indiscretion for posting what CBS likely considers proprietary information. In law there is a reason for the principle of unclean hands.

I am at a loss trying to understand how a login for Rick's site would change anything other than your perception. We don't need Google to find Rick's. Any FTA enthusiast could still read all the open feed posts after logging in. Any uplinker who wants to continue monitoring Rick's would have no trouble doing so after logging in. How does this provide any protection? This seems a central tenet to your argument, but you have failed to make a case as to how this would provide an effective improvement and/or keep feeds from being encrypted.

I am not trying to cloud the debate. Much of what has been written in this thread concerns the future of FTA in North America and we all want that to remain healthy. We simply can't agree which direction is the best. This is not unique in the field of human endeavors. I will stop bothering you all, now.

 

[stargaze]

I am not trying to cloud the debate. Much of what has been written in this thread concerns the future of FTA in North America and we all want that to remain healthy. We simply can't agree which direction is the best. This is not unique in the field of human endeavors. I will stop bothering you all, now.

There is nothing wrong nor improper with a healthy debate. Where is tends to go off base is when people begin to attack others. At least Scott is finally seeing this in his last couple posts in not saying things like one person is killing this hobby. If the debate continues in a decent manner then maybe some others will see it as a positive thing and it could be a help to everyone.
I give credit to this site where this type of debate can take place without banning, hard feelings, and /or malice towards others.

 

[stargaze]

I am at a loss trying to understand how a login for Rick's site would change anything other than your perception. We don't need Google to find Rick's. Any FTA enthusiast could still read all the open feed posts after logging in. Any uplinker who wants to continue monitoring Rick's would have no trouble doing so after logging in. How does this provide any protection? This seems a central tenet to your argument, but you have failed to make a case as to how this would provide an effective improvement and/or keep feeds from being encrypted.

If it stops goggle from plastering the info all over the place then it does indeed help!

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

If it stops goggle from plastering the info all over the place then it does indeed help!

Bingo stargaze, you hit the nail on the head.

As I said before by Rick making it required for PEOPLE to log in and view the feeds it stops the spiders (Google, Bing etc.) I also said that by him doing it, that it might not stop stuff from getting scrambled. But at least no one can point a finger at Rick saying it was his site that caused all these feeds to go away any longer as Rick will have shown he tried to protect those feeds by making people log in to view those feed posts.

Thanks for the debate Pendragon, I do value your input.

 

[Lak7]

Thanks for the debate Pendragon, I do value your input.

It's too bad there is only 1 response on the Thread at Rick's.

 

[brentb636]

Okay, Tim, you win, I posted at Rick's in support of Stan's post. Maybe we'll start a snowball rolling. Can't hurt.

 

[Hermitman]

Something to consider about CBS and others saying they encrypted signals because of ITC postings on Ricks - of course they would say that. If they actually gain their information by logging on private forums, they have to protect their methods and procedures, making Ricks a handy diversion.

And if Ricks does require logging in, what would you do about the "Other" site that provides ITC wildfeed postings without logging in? In the big picture of things, nothing would have changed.

 

[Lak7]

Okay, Tim, you win, I posted at Rick's in support of Stan's post. Maybe we'll start a snowball rolling. Can't hurt.

You may get banned

 

[stanleyjohn]

Okay, Tim, you win, I posted at Rick's in support of Stan's post. Maybe we'll start a snowball rolling. Can't hurt.

Thanks Brent! Maybe if we speak upand show Rick that we are not out to get him!but are here speaking out because its a good site and this problem with the log in should be solved for the benifit of all.I know thaere are other rick members here! please voice your opionion to rick on his site in a nice!constructive manner.

 

[brentb636]

You may get banned

As long as logins aren't required, being banned doesn't mean you can't look at feed info !

 

[stanleyjohn]

You may get banned

I thought about that but im banking that he well listen to reason from his own members.