Added Ku with BSC621 and can't get guide/re-hits

[dcornewell]

So, I installed a 12 footer last summer with a 4DTV reciever. Kids cartoons died on C3 and were moved to X4 so I needed Ku. I bought a BSC621, installed in the freezing cold and it worked great to start with.

I'm usually between C4,G1,and C3. I could get everything on Cband there. I pointed to X4 and got home and garden or something on Ku. cool, that works.

Cartoons said I needed a subscription. I called SPS, they did a re-hit while I was on G1 ch3, then on like 5 other channels and I got nothing. I had the DC light, signal was good, but hit counter would not go up. I also couldn't get new guide data after that. I put my old LNBF back and everything started working again minus Ku of course.

I didn't put in the di-electric because I didn't think I needed circular polarity. Was I wrong? Has anyone used the BSC621 (not -2) with any luck on a sub'ed 4DTV reciever? Help please?

 

[tdti1]

I do no for best results on that c/ku lnbf is you need to select rotate 90 deg in the menu when setting up, and make sure to select c/ku lnbf.

You may have been off a little because there is now servo you can't control it from inside and will need to go out till you get it working good, if you have a 922 the quality must be at 45 to get the guide you mite have been jumping up and down so it did not load.

When it gets warmer out you mite want to try again, you could have also got hits on other sats other than G-15 (g1) basically any distribution premium channel mux has the data for hits but only G-15 transponder 3 has the guide.

 

[Anole]

just a thought...

Looking back at the facts, could this be a temperature-related problem with the new LNB?

 

[dcornewell]

My old LNBF was rotated 90deg, so that was set. I had quality of 92 on G1 ch3 with the new LNBF. I didn't check the other channels they had me on to get the re-hit, but I always had a green DC light. The guy on the phone said if I have a DC light, I should be fine. He wasn't sure why it wasn't working either.

These are good thoughts, but if I am doubtful they are my problem. If my skew was off, or the LNBF wasn't rated for cold weather I would expect to not be able to get a DC light or watch TV. I could do both. G1 channel 8 was coming in crystal clear, so I had G1. Other digital channels were coming in, so I don't think there is an alignment or skew problem. Am I incorrect there? Is there something I could do wrong that allows digital channels, but not re-hits/EPG guide?

Thanks for the ideas. When I try again, I'll at least double check the settings and not assume that seeing TV means they are correct.

 

[tdti1]

If you had good quality on G-15 transponder-3 and it was not working and then worked with the other lnbf I have no clue what the probelm could be... sorry.

 

[truckracer]

If you had the DCII lighted up green, you should have been good to go
I always take re-hits on G1-3 from NPS.

I have heard you can take re-hits on about any DCII channel. Never tried.

KU band is going to be tricky on a 10 foot dish also.

You may need to try rebooting your receiver, 4DTV's have a few bugs and may just need to pull the plug for a few seconds and try again.

 

[dcornewell]

>> If you had the DCII lighted up green, you should have been good to go

I thought so too


>> You may need to try rebooting your receiver,...

I did. All that accomplished was to wipe out the guide data that I did have. That was how I found out I couldn't get re-hits AND I couldn't get guide data.


>> KU band is going to be tricky on a 10 foot dish also.

Why is that? I was able to bring in a couple non-sub Ku channels without any problem. it's a mesh, but the holes are small. Oh, and it's 12 feet ;]

 

[Hermitman]

Here's a couple of thoughts for you. If you receiver works fine with the C-band only LNBF and doesn't work with the C/Ku-band LNBF, then I think the problem should lie somewhere in the LNBF installation. If you're receiving in-the-clear programs on C and Ku bands (analog and digital) ok, then your antenna alignment is good. (And by the way, I have both 10 and 12 footers hooked up to 4DTV and they work wonderful without problems.) I'm "assuming" you had to run a new coax or hook up an extra coax run to get the Ku-band side of the LNBF working. Have you checked that there is not a small bit of shield wire contacting the center conductor in the coax? Are the connectors properly crimped to the coax ends? Have you tried installing the new LNBF, disconnecting the coax to the Ku side of the LNBF and seeing if that helps? The concept being that maybe there's something wrong with the Ku coax or connectors drawing voltage away, degrading performance or causing interference. I guess the worst case is you get authorized with the old LNBF then install the new one till the authorization runs out and hook the old one back up. Good luck.

 

[determined]

Apparently there is some compatability issue with the BSC621 and a Motorola
4DTV box. I did a google search on the BSC621 to see what it is all about and found this out at the following site:

They don't say what it is but maybe a phone call will answer that question.

 

[tdti1]

Apparently there is some compatability issue with the BSC621 and a Motorola
4DTV box. I did a google search on the BSC621 to see what it is all about and found this out at the following site:

They don't say what it is but maybe a phone call will answer that question.

That is the BSC621-2 model, the BSC621 is working great for many members of the 4dtv forum, and if I recall some guys here have them running fine, I honestly don't recommend them because of the cheap lnb's inside but thats just me.

Also you said that you had good quality so this mean it was working good.

 

[dcornewell]

I suppose checking the cable won't hurt. I had ribbon cable with 2 coax ran to start with because I got a deal on it. I just had to put an end on the second one.

I think I am going to hook it back up this weekend and just fidget with it. If all else fails, I guess I could always get a smaller dish with a Ku LNBF on it. I wonder if I could tell the reciever to not move when tuning Ku, but still move the Cband. I don't belong here until I have at least 3 dishes up, right? ;]

Thank you for the ideas. I will just have to double check the whole setup.

 

[MrTim]

That is the BSC621-2 model, the BSC621 is working great for many members of the 4dtv forum, and if I recall some guys here have them running fine, I honestly don't recommend them because of the cheap lnb's inside but thats just me.

Also you said that you had good quality so this mean it was working good.

Cheap LNB's inside? That's news to me.

 

[tdti1]

Cheap LNB's inside? That's news to me.

Well lower quality lnbs I should say

Do you have the full specs for these? what is the stability?

 

[MrTim]

Well lower quality lnbs I should say

Do you have the full specs for these? what is the stability?

Lower quality? I don't think so. I've spent over 30 years in LNBs and LNBFs. They are one of our main products. Yes we have specs. Our normal LNBFs are 1 MHz stability. Customers who buy these aren't looking for the price of high stability LNBFs. We do make 500 KHz stability LNBs for some customers.

We sell our LNBFs to some pretty big companies who don't think they are "low quality". Sky Mexico takes on average 20,000 pcs per month and their testing is some of hardest to pass.

We have had more advancements in LNB/Fs than any other company. We've been first to introduce the latest LNB/F technology. Our LNBFs consistantly have high gain while maintaining low noise. You would be surprised to know some of the companies we private label LNBFs for.

 

[ftarock]

Does your company have any plan of making "premium" high stability C, Ku lnbf?
I know when you make a product, you take the volume into consideration.
I am sure there are users willing to pay more for higher stability. I know I am one of them.
I like the lnbf. No more worries about skew motor...but due to the stability, I am still using feedhorn with lnb, that way I am chose high stability lnbs.
thanks

Lower quality? I don't think so. I've spent over 30 years in LNBs and LNBFs. They are one of our main products. Yes we have specs. Our normal LNBFs are 1 MHz stability. Customers who buy these aren't looking for the price of high stability LNBFs. We do make 500 KHz stability LNBs for some customers.

We sell our LNBFs to some pretty big companies who don't think they are "low quality". Sky Mexico takes on average 20,000 pcs per month and their testing is some of hardest to pass.

We have had more advancements in LNB/Fs than any other company. We've been first to introduce the latest LNB/F technology. Our LNBFs consistantly have high gain while maintaining low noise. You would be surprised to know some of the companies we private label LNBFs for.

 

[MrTim]

Does your company have any plan of making "premium" high stability C, Ku lnbf?
I know when you make a product, you take the volume into consideration.
I am sure there are users willing to pay more for higher stability. I know I am one of them.
I like the lnbf. No more worries about skew motor...but due to the stability, I am still using feedhorn with lnb, that way I am chose high stability lnbs.
thanks

I have no plans at this time. Unfortunately C band here is a very small market. Foreign C band markets don't require Ku (for the most part). Another problem is cost. C/Ku LNBFs cost more to make. If both LNBs need to be 500 KHz stability it would drive the cost pretty high. 500KHz is about the best that can be done with DRO LNBs. If more stability is required, the next step it PLL and the price again jumps.

DRO LNBFs with a stability of 1 MHz work very well with FTA receivers and some folks use them for data. Digital ready LNBF stability for normal DVB should be 1.5MHz or better.

 

[dem0nlord]

500KHz is about the best that can be done with DRO LNBs

Are you implying my Norsats are not 100 and 150khz as advertised?

 

[Anole]

Dielectric Resonator Oscillator (DRO)

I am familiar with PLL or Phase-Locked-Loop technology.
I took a Google-search to refresh my memory on what DRO was, and came to this Norsat spec sheet.
Woops, that's Ku band. I was thinking of looking for C-band, but it's still an interesting paper.
I guess this is a representative C-band LNB from Norsat.

Further research suggests Swedish Microwave can only make 'em to +/-3mhz stability

SPC Electronics, Japan, seems to offer 500khz and 1mhz stability in C band.

Two California Amplifer C-band LNBs claiming 500khz as high-stability.

Problem is, none of these handle both V and H , and none have a feed horn, so . . .


Anyone have any representative info (dare I say price?) on the PLL sort of LNBs ?
Many years ago, I built PLLs for data recovery off hard disc drives, and also for communication channel selection in two-way radios.
It took a board-full of electronics back then.
Today, it's all been reduced to a chip.
So, other than a TCXO for reference, I guess I don't really see the cost factor of a PLL.
Maybe someone would shed some light on the subject.

 

[MrTim]

Are you implying my Norsats are not 100 and 150khz as advertised?

NO, I'm not. Norsat is a well respected company.