Acceptable Signal Strength

[Tom Bombadil]

My professionally installed system has readings all in the 80s at 99c, several in the 50s at 99s (4 are at 0 from 99s).

103s is:
1-8 36 0 0 0 0 0
9-16 0 96
17-24 0 95 85 95 76 78 0 0

Then 103ca and 103cb are all 85 to 95.

 

[raoul5788]

Since 103s is a spotbeam satellite, the only numbers that matter are the ones for your area, assuming your locals are on 103. 85 is good enough for the CONUS signals as long as they aren't all 85.

 

[dtro77]

Opps.........99 & 103 ARE the HD birds..........101 is one of the three SD sats..........110 & 119.........not so much these days.
I misspoke and you correctly identified my error,

Good catch,

joe

I think there is 2 or 3 Satellites at the 101

Directv 4, Directv 8 and 9

 

[Joe Diamond]

I think there is 2 or 3 Satellites at the 101

Directv 4, Directv 8 and 9

Yes,

Those numbers indicate west longitude....launch positions101...110...119.......there are many sats at most launch positions............the sats are miles apart but when focused from the ground out to 22,000 miles they seem to be one big glob of signal. Also many sats are not functional out there...........strap on a space ship with a big net and go capture a few.....or just refuel them.....move them around.$$$$$$$$$$

The part I am not clear on = the SD sats must be nine degrees apart. Directv uses some ka birds that are lower power but can be in orbit in a LOS that is three degrees on either side of the SD sats;(eg 99...101...103.
That separation was built into the regs for a reason but the techies at Directv were able to bypass it. Loophole? Potential problems? What?

joe

 

[Jimbo]

Yes,

Those numbers indicate west longitude....launch positions101...110...119.......there are many sats at most launch positions............the sats are miles apart but when focused from the ground out to 22,000 miles they seem to be one big glob of signal. Also many sats are not functional out there...........strap on a space ship with a big net and go capture a few.....or just refuel them.....move them around.$$$$$$$$$$

The part I am not clear on = the SD sats must be nine degrees apart. Directv uses some ka birds that are lower power but can be in orbit in a LOS that is three degrees on either side of the SD sats;(eg 99...101...103.
That separation was built into the regs for a reason but the techies at Directv were able to bypass it. Loophole? Potential problems? What?

joe

Remember that the birds you mentioned, some are Ka and others Ku, maybe the distance apart are allowed because of this difference ?

 

[digiblur]

Actually 110 is deactivated and will be moved out of orbit soon. 119 has many local sd channels and quite a few other channels.

Negative. They would lose their license there.

Sent from my C64 w/Epyx FastLoad cartridge

 

[raoul5788]

Negative. They would lose their license there.

Sent from my C64 w/Epyx FastLoad cartridge

I think I mixed up D1R and D5. D1R is being decommisionned and moved out of orbit. It was going to be an in orbit spare for D5 at 110, but I guess not.

 

[digiblur]

I think I mixed up D1R and D5. D1R is being decommisionned and moved out of orbit. It was going to be an in orbit spare for D5 at 110, but I guess not.

It was but for a bit since its stint with Bell if I remember correctly it had been running low on fuel. It was launched in 99 with a 15yr life but......

Sent from my C64 w/Epyx FastLoad cartridge

 

[Joe Diamond]

Remember that the birds you mentioned, some are Ka and others Ku, maybe the distance apart are allowed because of this difference ?

Correct!

As I was told the KU birds are in a higher orbit and must be nine degrees apart so you get 101 (+9) = 110 (+9)= 119 etc. What Directv has done is to launch and operate lower power (and orbit) KA sats to produce a three degree separation when viewed from CONUS. So 99 (+3) =101 (+3) =103+....... one dish will "see" the 99......101.....103 even though they are at different distances The LNB will sort it out so appropriate signal is presented to the IRD for HD & SD programming. The tuning must be more precise...the 101 has a big footprint and has been EZ to find.................the tuning for the other HD signals is a compromise away from a peaked SD signal from the 101 without loosing it.

The result is HD....SD...HD.....within a six degree arc on a known plane (the tilt adjustment). Not all OUs are created equal, therefore!

There is a lot of FCC stuff involved here and some impressive engineering. I' d like to see the actual process they used to get the system up and running......also any technical correction of my summary. I just tighten the bolts.

Joe

 

[dtro77]

nine degrees apart so you get 101 (+9) = 110 (+9)= 119 etc. . So 99 (+3) =101 (+3) =103+.......
Joe

OK not to bust your chops, but the way you counted seperation on the KU's is not the same way you counted the KA's seperation.

The 101 is KU and the KA are only 2 degrees apart from it. Based on your KU math. In realality its only 1 orbital location seperatiing them.

So yes I bet the Minimum is 3 Degrees seperation, From KA to KA Which it is 100,101,102
I really don't think there is a formula for KA's next to KU's other then what licences are available for ones orbital locations, and what works without interference at your dish.
Of course Directv wants to be as close to the 101 as then can since thats the heart of of their satellite fleet.
Closer to that means easier to tune.

Lets not forget the Spaceway 1 and 2 (99 /103) first intentions were to be used for internet service. Not tv.

 

[raoul5788]

Correct!

As I was told the KU birds are in a higher orbit and must be nine degrees apart so you get 101 (+9) = 110 (+9)= 119 etc. What Directv has done is to launch and operate lower power (and orbit) KA sats to produce a three degree separation when viewed from CONUS. So 99 (+3) =101 (+3) =103+....... one dish will "see" the 99......101.....103 even though they are at different distances The LNB will sort it out so appropriate signal is presented to the IRD for HD & SD programming. The tuning must be more precise...the 101 has a big footprint and has been EZ to find.................the tuning for the other HD signals is a compromise away from a peaked SD signal from the 101 without loosing it.

The result is HD....SD...HD.....within a six degree arc on a known plane (the tilt adjustment). Not all OUs are created equal, therefore!

There is a lot of FCC stuff involved here and some impressive engineering. I' d like to see the actual process they used to get the system up and running......also any technical correction of my summary. I just tighten the bolts.

Joe

You were told wrong. All of the satellites that Directv uses are in the same orbit, about 22,300 miles away.

 

[Hutch1814]

You were told wrong. All of the satellites that Directv uses are in the same orbit, about 22,300 miles away.

Positive? The reason I ask is because don't some sit lower the others? I mean, they're technically in the same orbit but some sit higher/lower than others

 

[dtro77]

No, the reason some seem lower in the USA is cause of their orbital location. Remember the earth is round , Not Square!
They are all at the same place in orbit.

Thats why its harder some times for North East coast folks to tune the 119 in cause Trees are almost always an issue.
Thats cause its the futhest west Satellite from us, That makes it appear lower.

Also thats why Dishnetwork Customers couldn't use the 129 at all on a lot of the East coast

 

[Hutch1814]

No, the reason some seem lower in the USA is cause of their orbital location. Remember the earth is round , Not Square!
They are all at the same place in orbit.

Thats why its harder some times for North East coast folks to tune the 119 in cause Trees are almost always an issue.
Thats cause its the futhest west Satellite from us, That makes it appear lower.

Also thats why Dishnetwork Customers couldn't use the 129 at all on a lot of the East coast

I understand that the earth is FLAT!

 

[Joe Diamond]

OK not to bust your chops, but the way you counted seperation on the KU's is not the same way you counted the KA's seperation.

The 101 is KU and the KA are only 2 degrees apart from it. Based on your KU math. In realality its only 1 orbital location seperatiing them.

So yes I bet the Minimum is 3 Degrees seperation, From KA to KA Which it is 100,101,102
I really don't think there is a formula for KA's next to KU's other then what licences are available for ones orbital locations, and what works without interference at your dish.
Of course Directv wants to be as close to the 101 as then can since thats the heart of of their satellite fleet.
Closer to that means easier to tune.

Lets not forget the Spaceway 1 and 2 (99 /103) first intentions were to be used for internet service. Not tv.

No problem, the chops can stand to be busted.

The intention of the tech who explained all this was to get me producing. I do understand about the Clarke Belt and the 22.000 mile geostationary characteristic of that location.......for some reason the power or altitude of the sats allowed .......by FCC reg.........placing sats in positions three degrees +/- on either side of the 101. I do not follow the satellite industry.....just wanted a local job.........but the difference between in-the-field installation explanations and what is really going on is actually what we are speaking about.

Bring on the explanations. I do note that all the launch positions are much more refined that round numbers. So there is an inconsistency between the LOS to 99,101&103. The general idea is that the 101 is SD & between the 99 & 103.

So how did Directv get around the nine degree separation?

Joe