General question about how signal loss manifests...

[Johnnyspot]

It is interesting to hear your impressions as someone with so much experience in this specific field. I wonder what it is I'm perceiving. I know it's something! I think it could be as simple as a sort of a pseudo-blur effect created by edges that are less defined (an unintended consequence perhaps of algorithms that are both removing artifacts, as you say - which I agree with, but also perhaps creating softer edges and, resultingly, a sort of a blur/ghost effect). I would be really interested to hear any other impressions from those who have done comparisons or decide to take that on. The general word around the internet is that people are very happy with how streaming quality compares to satellite, with many saying it beats satellite - though many seem happiest with it for other reasons than PQ alone. But there is also a whole class of gripers about various aspects of streaming PQ (mostly around artifacts), and it's not uncommon to see people saying DTV satellite still beats streaming. Tonight I watched 3/4 of a baseball game on satellite and am now finishing it on YTTV (because DTV receiver went kaput) - there are marked differences - some very positive for YTTV to my subjective eye, but I would still say a slight net negative - one thing I noticed off the bat was up close shots are distinctively less sharp/clear on YTTV, though not bad looking. And whatever thing is going on with fast motion I do see.

YTTV is not known for its picture quality nor its high bit rate It’s something they claim they plan to improve this summer

 

[sealrock]

YTTV is not known for its picture quality nor its high bit rate It’s something they claim they plan to improve this summer

Yes, they have been claiming they're about to improve it the entire time we have been with them (about 6 years), though.

 

[dtv757]

I've seen so many YTTV complaints the past few days. Apparently they had issues with the NBA playoffs. So thankful I have DirecTV

 

[sealrock]

I've seen so many YTTV complaints the past few days. Apparently they had issues with the NBA playoffs. So thankful I have DirecTV

Yeah, I am hoping satellite survives? It seems like even with 50% subscriber loss, there is enough revenue to keep satellites in the sky, perhaps with a Dish merger. I can't see a lot of young people putting up with a company like DTV, though, as they are on May 18, 2023 (high cost, contracts, marginal quality improvement, out of date interface, glitchy website, Dante's inferno customer service, clunky equipment in need of mechanical calibration i.e. use of a socket wrench!). It has been a tear-your-hair-out type experience every day trying to set this up. DTV should really come out with a cool looking self-aiming satellite like the ones that RV'ers use, for easy setup. And create some kind of TV & internet package deal? And forget about contracts & fees upon fees. The company seriously needs to catch up & adapt IMO. They could take the L and help themselves a lot by not nickel & diming people - how about just include streaming (WITH DVR) with a Satellite package? Give people something that is an obvious good value. Otherwise, I think it's going to be a tough road trying to claw subscribers from the streamers. But maybe I'm neglecting to consider the rural audience who won't have good internet (for how long?).

All that aside, I am glad for the quality improvement over streaming (not always, as I've mentioned - streaming does have an edge in sharpness at times - channel to channel?). Which I think will be helped if I can calibrate (colors) better, perhaps with help of some device - you can calibrate an Apple TV with your iPhone, which results in really nice colors easily.

That said, the 'nice' colors of YTTV are really not accurate, I'd say. They are just super-saturated, which is an easy trick. And shortcuts taken to 'better' image quality IMO.

I think the people who like YTTV, it's because YTTV does a really nice job of filing the rough edges off the signal. But in the process lose some things, such as (per my argument) quickness in motion, and definition.

 

[dtv757]

Why not have Dtv install your dish? I'm sure if u have the protection plan they will come out for free

 

[sealrock]

Why not have Dtv install your dish? I'm sure if u have the protection plan they will come out for free

Already installed. We tried through DTV - the installer was ill-prepared - did not have tall enough ladder, did not know how to deal with asbestos siding, did not have a plan for dealing with trees, did not have pole mounts or want to use the ones I provided, etc. Dealing with DTV was excruciating. So did it myself via Solid Signal. After trying a bunch of spots I drove a stake into the ground with a rusty old sledgehammer (mailbox post) and found one corner where it worked - city so lots of obstructions and no roof access at 35' up. Had to move the stake multiple times though, which I did with an improvised lever system (chain + metal pipe + wood block + jumping). Plus protection plan is another $100 a year on an already expensive service. I just spent ~3 hours with DTV CS going in circles yesterday b/c the HR54 hit an error last week - they said only way to fix was to swap for different receiver. And now the Mini doesn't work with the new receiver, so need to swap that. Both times tried to rope me into protection plan multiple times so we could pay $100 a year to avoid paying $19.95 to replace their own equipment that doesn't work. Had to practically filibuster them to get them to stop offering it. Anyway I am glad for the better picture quality. And the reps are pretty nice, the approach is just old school and it seems like the company is unawares of the utterly seamless experience offered by all their competitors (well, not Xfinity). It sometimes seems like they're trying everything under the sun to drive people away.

 

[dtv757]

Wow crazy . I did read somewhere that they don't climb roofs anymore or something random like that

I have the cheapest protection plan , one day my mini went bad I called at 12noon tech came same day at 2pm I was amazed ! Replaced the stb and re ran some coax i think but your story crazy glad u found a spot to get signal!

 

[dtv757]

Never ordered from SS , I wonder if they have like a 1 year guarantee/warranty or something

 

[dtv757]

I think most companies/care reps recomend pro plan to avoid tech fees . I'm glad I have it with my ISP cause they suck and are here all the time smh .

 

[raoul5788]

Already installed. We tried through DTV - the installer was ill-prepared - did not have tall enough ladder, did not know how to deal with asbestos siding, did not have a plan for dealing with trees, did not have pole mounts or want to use the ones I provided, etc. Dealing with DTV was excruciating. So did it myself via Solid Signal. After trying a bunch of spots I drove a stake into the ground with a rusty old sledgehammer (mailbox post) and found one corner where it worked - city so lots of obstructions and no roof access at 35' up. Had to move the stake multiple times though, which I did with an improvised lever system (chain + metal pipe + wood block + jumping). Plus protection plan is another $100 a year on an already expensive service. I just spent ~3 hours with DTV CS going in circles yesterday b/c the HR54 hit an error last week - they said only way to fix was to swap for different receiver. And now the Mini doesn't work with the new receiver, so need to swap that. Both times tried to rope me into protection plan multiple times so we could pay $100 a year to avoid paying $19.95 to replace their own equipment that doesn't work. Had to practically filibuster them to get them to stop offering it. Anyway I am glad for the better picture quality. And the reps are pretty nice, the approach is just old school and it seems like the company is unawares of the utterly seamless experience offered by all their competitors (well, not Xfinity). It sometimes seems like they're trying everything under the sun to drive people away.

I'm not sure why you would expect a satellite tech to deal with asbestos siding, and I'm guessing the pole you had wasn't the right diameter.

 

[sealrock]

Wow crazy . I did read somewhere that they don't climb roofs anymore or something random like that

I have the cheapest protection plan , one day my mini went bad I called at 12noon tech came same day at 2pm I was amazed ! Replaced the stb and re ran some coax i think but your story crazy glad u found a spot to get signal!

I wouldn't be surprised, but if that's the case they need to be even better prepared for the limited range of options that leaves them with. Anyway, I was glad to get it figured out myself.

Never ordered from SS , I wonder if they have like a 1 year guarantee/warranty or something

Not sure, but they have been good to deal with. They swapped several things with no hassle that I needed swapped earlier in the process.

I'm not sure why you would expect a satellite tech to deal with asbestos siding, and I'm guessing the pole you had wasn't the right diameter.

Yeah, why would I expect a satellite installer to be able to install a satellite dish? Pure naivete, I guess. It's not like the DTV website asks you when you book the appointment 1) pole diameter (and as I mentioned I provided two types of heavy duty pole mounts that fit the pole) 2) how tall your house is 3) what siding material you have on your house. I think you're kind of cherry picking from my post. I never said I expected them to deal with the siding, which is why I bought several types of pole mounts. But ultimately it's their job to be prepared for a range of situations (i.e. ask questions that will help them be prepared do their job - how is it a customer's job to know what a "correct pole diameter" for a satellite dish is, and why 2" isn't it).

 

[raoul5788]

Yeah, why would I expect a satellite installer to be able to install a satellite dish? Pure naivete, I guess. It's not like the DTV website asks you when you book the appointment 1) pole diameter (and as I mentioned I provided two types of heavy duty pole mounts that fit the pole) 2) how tall your house is 3) what siding material you have on your house. I think you're kind of cherry picking from my post. I never said I expected them to deal with the siding, which is why I bought several types of pole mounts. But ultimately it's their job to be prepared for a range of situations (i.e. ask questions that will help them be prepared do their job - how is it a customer's job to know what a "correct pole diameter" for a satellite dish is, and why 2" isn't it).

Your suggestion that the reason the dish couldn't be installed was the fault of the tech isn't backed up by your original post. You mentioned the asbestos siding as if it was no big deal. It is. You mentioned the trees being a factor as if you thought he should have brought a chain saw. How tall of a ladder did he need and did you tell customer service he might need a bigger one than normal? Many of the techs aren't allowed to use ladders over a certain size without a partner. And the correct size pole isn't easy to find. Was the one you had the correct 2" diameter? Or was it slightly undersized?

 

[sealrock]

Your suggestion that the reason the dish couldn't be installed was the fault of the tech isn't backed up by your original post. You mentioned the asbestos siding as if it was no big deal. It is. You mentioned the trees being a factor as if you thought he should have brought a chain saw. How tall of a ladder did he need and did you tell customer service he might need a bigger one than normal? Many of the techs aren't allowed to use ladders over a certain size without a partner. And the correct size pole isn't easy to find. Was the one you had the correct 2" diameter? Or was it slightly undersized?

I don't really want to argue with you about this - I just said what happened, which is accurate. You seem to have a strong stance about this, and I really don't. But how is the customer supposed to know what the tech needs to do their job, what their policies are as far as climbing roofs, having partners - you know all about this b/c you are an enthusiast. Do you think the average person ordering DTV service knows what pole diameter, roof height, siding type, etc installer needs? What their safety policies are? Why should they? It would be as simple as putting a simple HTML form on the order submission to ask about conditions. Anyway I don't really want to bicker with you about this - I don't think it's ridiculous to assume DTV & tech will work together to understand the scenario in advance of the visit and be prepared to do their job. Obviously an install was possible, because I did it myself. So if I can do it, why can't someone who's literal job it is do it?

 

[Jimbo]

I wouldn't be surprised, but if that's the case they need to be even better prepared for the limited range of options that leaves them with. Anyway, I was glad to get it figured out myself.



Not sure, but they have been good to deal with. They swapped several things with no hassle that I needed swapped earlier in the process.



Yeah, why would I expect a satellite installer to be able to install a satellite dish? Pure naivete, I guess. It's not like the DTV website asks you when you book the appointment 1) pole diameter (and as I mentioned I provided two types of heavy duty pole mounts that fit the pole) 2) how tall your house is 3) what siding material you have on your house. I think you're kind of cherry picking from my post. I never said I expected them to deal with the siding, which is why I bought several types of pole mounts. But ultimately it's their job to be prepared for a range of situations (i.e. ask questions that will help them be prepared do their job - how is it a customer's job to know what a "correct pole diameter" for a satellite dish is, and why 2" isn't it).

Your job would be an addl charge in most cases, hardly Normal install ...

Sounds like you expected them to put your dish at 35' in the air ? NOT gonna happen.

Also, techs can no longer go onto roofs, can only work off the ladder.

As for the post mounts, IF your poles were the exact 2" required, which I doubt, as it is generally a special order or getting from a Fence company to get the correct size ...

They typically would Stock all this on a typical day .... on thier truck.
Not the 40' ladder.

Glad to see you've been able to get your supplies thru Solid Signal, I've used them many times and had good success with them.

 

[sealrock]

Your job would be an addl charge in most cases, hardly Normal install ...

Sounds like you expected them to put your dish at 35' in the air ? NOT gonna happen.

Also, techs can no longer go onto roofs, can only work off the ladder.

As for the post mounts, IF your poles were the exact 2" required, which I doubt, as it is generally a special order or getting from a Fence company to get the correct size ...

They typically would Stock all this on a typical day .... on thier truck.
Not the 40' ladder.

Glad to see you've been able to get your supplies thru Solid Signal, I've used them many times and had good success with them.

How is the customer supposed to know any of this, is the point. Ladder policies? What the installers have on their trucks on a typical day? What the exact pole diameter needed is (which I don't see the relevance of tbh, since pole to pole mounts are usable on a range of pole diameters)? What height an installer will ascend to (there are satellite dishes on tons of roofs of that height in the neighborhood, fwiw)? And tbh this is a normal install for a city. As I said, our situation is actually much better than the majority of city settings.

DTV are the ones that need to prepare themselves with relevant information needed to do their job (which as I said, was capable of being done, as I did it as an amateur). Respectfully, I think since this forum is enthusiasts, folks expect that a customer would know things that no average person would know about what is necessary for an install. I'm not sure why there is so little responsibility being put on the company for preparing themselves with the information they need to do the job they are sending someone out to do.

But yes, Solid Signal was overall a good experience. Cost a bit more, had a few problems with equipment, but they were easy to deal with and personable.

 

[Jimbo]

How is the customer supposed to know any of this, is the point. Ladder policies? What the installers have on their trucks on a typical day? What the exact pole diameter needed is (which I don't see the relevance of tbh, since pole to pole mounts are usable on a range of pole diameters)? What height an installer will ascend to (there are satellite dishes on tons of roofs of that height in the neighborhood, fwiw)? And tbh this is a normal install for a city. As I said, our situation is actually much better than the majority of city settings.

DTV are the ones that need to prepare themselves with relevant information needed to do their job (which as I said, was capable of being done, as I did it as an amateur). Respectfully, I think since this forum is enthusiasts, folks expect that a customer would know things that no average person would know about what is necessary for an install. I'm not sure why there is so little responsibility being put on the company for preparing themselves with the information they need to do the job they are sending someone out to do.

But yes, Solid Signal was overall a good experience. Cost a bit more, had a few problems with equipment, but they were easy to deal with and personable.

Back in the day, first 10 years or so, I'd say, ya, you could get that job done that way ...
Since then, Nope, no way.
They no longer go on roofs, they have 28' ladders at most, could be 24', thats what I used 90 % of my career.

Theres NO REASON to try and put a dish on a 3 story home roof.
Asbestos siding, if YOU obviously know about it, so does the installer ... yes we had a few installs like that, and told all the procedures to do it, but NO ONE did them due to working conditions with it.

DTV was well aware of what is required to do a job ...

Back in the beginning, they got on roofs, no more.

How high do you go on an extension ladder and feel safe with all your equipment and dishes and what not on your side ???

YOU said, there was only 1 location that YOU could find to get your signal ... great.

Did you know that D* needs to have a certain amount on both sides of the peak to have it pass quality control ?
For example, just because You got a signal, does it have the 15-30 % clearance to each side, so it doesn't go out or lose signal when a minor issue comes up, any branches or potential leaves that will cause issues with summer time signal ?

Just because You found a spot, doesn't mean it would work all year round.

If I'm up on your roof 3 stories up, or the side of the house on a ladder and I lose my balance and fall, thats on ME ... You don't have to worry about it, but I do.

Safety is very important, particularly with all the stupid people out there.

Safety is WHY they don't do alot of the things they Use to do.

 

[sealrock]

How is the customer supposed to know any of this, is the point. Ladder policies? What the installers have on their trucks on a typical day? What the exact pole diameter needed is (which I don't see the relevance of tbh, since pole to pole mounts are usable on a range of pole diameters)? What height an installer will ascend to (there are satellite dishes on tons of roofs of that height in the neighborhood, fwiw)?

DTV are the ones that need to prepare themselves with relevant information needed to do their job (which as I said, was capable of being done, as I did it as an amateur). Respectfully, I think since this forum is enthusiasts, folks expect that a customer would know things that no average person would know about what is necessary for an install. I'm not sure why there is so little responsibility being put on the company for preparing themselves with the information they need to do the job they are sending someone out to do.

But yes, Solid Signal was overall a good experience. Cost a bit more, had a few problems with equipment, but they were easy to deal with and personable.

Back in the day, first 10 years or so, I'd say, ya, you could get that job done that way ...
Since then, Nope, no way.
They no longer go on roofs, they have 28' ladders at most, could be 24', thats what I used 90 % of my career.

Theres NO REASON to try and put a dish on a 3 story home roof.
Asbestos siding, if YOU obviously know about it, so does the installer ... yes we had a few installs like that, and told all the procedures to do it, but NO ONE did them due to working conditions with it.

DTV was well aware of what is required to do a job ...

Back in the beginning, they got on roofs, no more.

How high do you go on an extension ladder and feel safe with all your equipment and dishes and what not on your side ???

YOU said, there was only 1 location that YOU could find to get your signal ... great.

Did you know that D* needs to have a certain amount on both sides of the peak to have it pass quality control ?
For example, just because You got a signal, does it have the 15-30 % clearance to each side, so it doesn't go out or lose signal when a minor issue comes up, any branches or potential leaves that will cause issues with summer time signal ?

Just because You found a spot, doesn't mean it would work all year round.

If I'm up on your roof 3 stories up, or the side of the house on a ladder and I lose my balance and fall, thats on ME ... You don't have to worry about it, but I do.

Safety is very important, particularly with all the stupid people out there.

Safety is WHY they don't do alot of the things they Use to do.

I really didn't mean or expect my post to provoke any controversy, and as I said, I don't feel like arguing about it. I think you're looking at it from a tech's perspective, but you're totally skipping over much of what I'm saying. You are again saying all sorts of things that would be knowledge to a tech, but not to the average person. I don't really understand how it's that controversial to say that there is some sort of failure in the process if a person books an installation, no information is requested from the company with regard to conditions that might need to be worked with, a tech shows up, says 'welp, nothing i can do here,' leaves, and the customer is able to do the install themselves. Is that really a good model? Why not at least screen for such conditions in the ordering process, so the customer & tech's time aren't wasted. Now you say 'maybe won't work all round' - ok, we just had heavy rains (the most extreme weather there is here) and there was no problem. Again, I really don't feel like arguing about this. I think you need to maybe step out of the mindset of someone who worked that job, and see it from the customer's perspective. I don't mean anything personal against any tech, if that's how it's taken - if I am offering any criticism (and really I think all I was doing was just documenting literally what happened), it is directed toward the company, not any tech. But just sayin' - an install was possible. If an amateur could do it, surely a professional could. And again, no I don't know DTV requires this or that peak quality control - that is sort of the point. It isn't the customer's responsibility to know that sort of thing. Yet I pulled of a successful install. The location I succeeded with is 6' off the ground - no fall risk. I have working TV. So something is broken there if I can do it and the company can't get it done. I didn't mean to write a missive about this, but several of you are acting like its ridiculous to expect a satellite tv company to be able to install a satellite dish. Think about that.

 

[Jimbo]

I really didn't mean or expect my post to provoke any controversy, and as I said, I don't feel like arguing about it. I think you're looking at it from a tech's perspective, but you're totally skipping over much of what I'm saying. You are again saying all sorts of things that would be knowledge to a tech, but not to the average person. I don't really understand how it's that controversial to say that there is some sort of failure in the process if a person books an installation, no information is requested from the company with regard to conditions that might need to be worked with, a tech shows up, says 'welp, nothing i can do here,' leaves, and the customer is able to do the install themselves. Is that really a good model? Why not at least screen for such conditions in the ordering process, so the customer & tech's time aren't wasted. Now you say 'maybe won't work all round' - ok, we just had heavy rains (the most extreme weather there is here) and there was no problem. Again, I really don't feel like arguing about this. I think you need to maybe step out of the mindset of someone who worked that job, and see it from the customer's perspective. I don't mean anything personal against any tech, if that's how it's taken - if I am offering any criticism (and really I think all I was doing was just documenting literally what happened), it is directed toward the company, not any tech. But just sayin' - an install was possible. If an amateur could do it, surely a professional could. And again, no I don't know DTV requires this or that peak quality control - that is sort of the point. It isn't the customer's responsibility to know that sort of thing. Yet I pulled of a successful install. The location I succeeded with is 6' off the ground - no fall risk. I have working TV. So something is broken there if I can do it and the company can't get it done. I didn't mean to write a missive about this, but several of you are acting like its ridiculous to expect a satellite tv company to be able to install a satellite dish. Think about that.

Still doesn't mean it would pass the QC testing done on an installation ...
Fwiw, there are techs that are better than others that may have found your location, many look at the over all and say, they can't get a signal with a passing QC test and move on ...

 

[slice1900]

The techs will only do jobs that fit "standard" scenarios. They aren't allowed to leave their ladder, they probably are only allowed to use ladders of a certain height, they are likely allowed or even directed to refuse installs where there are dangerous materials nearby like asbestos.

Unless he can put it on a pole in your yard somewhere that isn't blocked by trees (which the installer is NOT responsible for trimming!) you will have to hire and pay a third party installer or install it yourself.

If you don't like that, there are plenty of alternatives to Directv. Dish will have the same rules, none of the rest have to put up a satellite dish but if they have to cut into your exterior walls to run wiring inside I'll bet they don't let those guys drill into asbestos siding either (though if they don't know what it is their ignorance may allow you to skate by)

 

[sealrock]

The techs will only do jobs that fit "standard" scenarios. They aren't allowed to leave their ladder, they probably are only allowed to use ladders of a certain height, they are likely allowed or even directed to refuse installs where there are dangerous materials nearby like asbestos.

Unless he can put it on a pole in your yard somewhere that isn't blocked by trees (which the installer is NOT responsible for trimming!) you will have to hire and pay a third party installer or install it yourself.

If you don't like that, there are plenty of alternatives to Directv. Dish will have the same rules, none of the rest have to put up a satellite dish but if they have to cut into your exterior walls to run wiring inside I'll bet they don't let those guys drill into asbestos siding either (though if they don't know what it is their ignorance may allow you to skate by)

We are pre-wired - I wish Dish had been an option b/c I was able to get signal using a portable RV antenna before activating and finding out they don't have RSN's anymore (operator had told me they did). Plus it was no-contract & cheaper. Pole mount is what I ended up doing, so yep.