8PSK Module

[hd fan]

Finally!!!!!. Maybe they only broadcast during business hours as it is the Florida Legislature or maybe the weather did not help last night, will see. But as you guys say apparently the footprint should not cover canada as it pixileates a lot and even freezes. I just got it now , it is sunny here with just a few clouds, no wind , perfect weather TO BE IN HAVANA (and yes I am yelling lol).

Pilot should be set to ON for this 8PSK signal , with OFF you get nothing. I remember for the Hispasat one it should be OFF. The funny thing is that the coolsat 8100 claims Quality as 99!!! althought it starts as 1% for a second or 2 then suddenly jumps to 99% and stays there. But still the picture freezes and pixeleates.

The birdog only locks QPSK signals so I can not get any data from this 8PSK TP. The spectrum analizer the birdog has shows something on those frecuencies but weaker compared with the other regular signals like MTA or the Patient Channels or even the HugesNet TP's. It also shows something at around 12075 V but I blind scanned with the CS 6000 and got nothing. CS6000 blind Scan barely stops analizing at those 8PSK frecuencies but shows nothing at the quality scale as expected. In other words either you get a 8PSK blind scan capable receiver or you get the info manually via Lyngsat or any other web service.

BTW , weather is still sunny and calm but for the last hour or so I lost the signal completely. First it started by just coming back frozen for a second and then black screen most of the time but signal quality at least from time to time jumping back to the 90's for a second or so but now caputo , nothing at all , not even the 1% glimps that at least at the beggining used to do.

I checked their website yesterday Zamar23 but I read no reference to the signal only being beamed broadcast to Florida and surroundings.

I think I was just lucky this afternoon at around 5:30 pm when I got home and the signal locked briefly. I am using an 80 cm or if you prefer 33' Dish. Will try with a 90 cm I also have tomorrow probably. But heck I ran out of 8PSK signals on Ku already!. Now I need at least a 6' dish for C band. I was thinking about it lately but had not decided, I guess now I have a lot to do this weekend, lol.

Apparently and this is only speculation since I see no other logic explanation , the quality bar on the Coolsat 8100 is probably a mix of several things and mostly Quality before BER or Viterbi if you prefer since it was showing over 90% and still the picture was freezing and pixeleating , even the audio was cutting out. Too bad the Birdog can not process this 8PSK signals otherwise I would have a better idea as to why. I beleive the Sat Buddy meter does.

 

[hd fan]

Well , I think the 80 cm Dish (actually 83 cm) is a bit small for this signal.

First as per SES Americon , the Sat operator for AMC-3, this Ku TP's should have coverage also in Canada and parts of Alaska. C-Band even goes further North. EIRP levels are now 45 dBW in my area (this is a 12 year old SAT with a life expecntancy of 15) so minimum dish size should be 85 cm to 105 cm as per Lyngsat maps which BTW their maps are outdated for this already very old bird.

Second: I found the Programming Schedule for both channels , which are broadcast OTA via the new digital ATSC signal in Florida as subchannels of the PBS affiliate WFSU (they have 4 subchannels over there!, including Create). Guess what , apparently the Florida Knowledge Network channel only broadcasts from 6 am to 6 or 7 pm daily aprox depending on the length of the last program but the Florida Channel should be live all the time at least with repeats. The schedule at least matches what I saw today.

I will try a 90 cm dish tomorrow (but that one is a flimpsy Fortec Star that got damaged by strong winds recently, so no hope there but will try) and using the Birdog Spectrum Analizer feature will try to maximize this signal and of course I will remove the Chieta DiseqC switch this time.

Will post results if any.

 

[zamar23]

hd fan

Very interesting and useful report. In fact, any detail report on catching DVB-S2 and 8psk channels on Ku-band goes a long way in usability. Would be interesting to discuss the results with Coolsat developers if they were known. If you ever analyzed signal spectrum, a detail report on this with regards to DVB-S2 and 8psk would be appreciated. In particular, how exactly you analyzed it and derived any relevant info from such analysis.

 

[brentb636]

I scanned AMC3 this morning, setting up the Florida Channel and Florida Knowledge Network, using the Lyngsat setting, with Pilot = off.
Using the 90cm Fortec Star dish, the AZbox picked them both up with a Q of 53% ( for what that's worth ) .

My CS8000 , on a mini-BUD setup picks the channels up with Pilot= ON, and a Q of 99% ( for whatever that is worth ) .

 

[hd fan]

Thanks brent636 , funny that 1 box will pick it up with pilot ON and the other one with Pilot OFF.

I think the Quality scale for the Coolsat 8100 for the 8PSK tuner does not trully gives the right number since on mine it always either shows nothing or 99% and even with 99% it pixilates or breaks up. This morning at 7 am I got 1 of them , the 12050V TP perfectly , skyes could not be clearer. The other one 12044V could not get anything.

Zamar23 , I could not derive any relevant info , since the spectrum analizer feature on the birdog is just a new one added to the last version 4 and therefore it is not a profesional dedicated SA like Tektronix and the likes. I could barely see something but way smaller amplitud than the rest of the active TP as per lyngsat. the birdog can not tune to 8PSK signals , not yet, so I am limited there too. will try a 90 cm dish later thsi afternoon. I beleive both channels always broadcast the same BTW as they both have the same PId's for Audio and Video, and I have seen the same.

 

[hd fan]

Finally!, I got it now even with the same 80 cm or 33' Dish. The funny thing I only had to bump the dish slightly a bit west and even wierder that way the other Vertical and Horizontal TP's as per the birdog their levels will go down dramatically. On the Birdog spectrum analizer still it barely shows a small hill on those set of frecuencies a way smaller than the peaks for other signals on other frecuencies. Still the other QPSK channels despite lower levels , they still work ok.

For the life of me I have no idea why is it it was not working before as there is nothing on the east adjacent SAT on those frecuencies although it could be a case of spurious frecuencies being emited from that sat at 85W. Like I said I had to compromise signal levels for the Patient channel, MTA and the likes but they work ok in this sunny day at least.

BTW I wrongly said earlier that both channels displayed the same programm and that is not correct. They both still have the same PID's for Video and Audio but yet their programming is totally different. The knowledge Network though only broadcasts from 6 am to 6 pm ET but so far they kept a banner or some sort of info short video. Apparently they use that signal also to broadcast the Florida Lottery Draw close to 8 pm as the Color Bars indicate now. In other words those 2 signals are probably active all the time.

Anyhow this 8PSK signals seem to me at least to be harder to lock to rather than the regular QPSK ones.

 

[zamar23]

Interesting background info on justifying 8psk use in Sat TV broadcasts. Other posts of the same author Hurricane are quite competent.

It seems like Echo designs all receivers for DN and Bell. BEV is now bringing a quite interesting low priced MPEG2/4 DVB-S2 HD receiver Bell 6131, fully packed with new Broadcom chips (looking through its heavily vented top cover) to support transition to TurboHD experience. It sounds like a good deal, keeping in mind, one can get 4 receivers on one sub, and add later another 2, so one sub can be shared by a group of up to 6 related people. They're equipped with HDMI, Ethernet and Modem ports, though firmware upgrades said to be done via sat. Not sure, if it can be used at all for FTA in addition to BEV sats.

 

[hd fan]

If by remote group you mean your surrounding neighbourgs and on top of that you are willing to run telephone lines from your house to theirs, then you can share the 6 receivers!!, lol. Account sharing is illegal and as such Bell TV enforces that policy. For every subscriber that has more than 1 STB , every receiver has to be connected 24x7 to a phone line and it has to be the same phone number the account holder has on file. Apparently lots of Canadians have an extra receiver in their cottage and ma Bell did not like it , lol. They even call you to confirm why one of the receivers is not calling their headend equipment.

Now off to catch LPBS on AMC 21 under rainy skies. How come no one told me about that one on ku!! , lol

 

[zamar23]

Interesting comment. I've read comments that in practice its not so problematic, but may be you know better... Is account sharing btw family members prohibited in practice, even if they happen to leave separately? What if someone owns a condo and a house?

 

[Mr Tony]

Account splitting is illegal and not tolerated here at Satelliteguys

 

[Smith P.]

And latests posts devoted away from 8PSK topic.

Is it time to open other threads ?

 

[zamar23]

My understanding was, that sharing an account with family members without sharing a service fee is not prohibited by law, but might technically contradict some Service Agreements with select providers, published or (mis)interpreted by their staff. Some companies do allow use the same account at different addresses, registered with them. In fact such topic is broader than its Sat TV component.

Thanks for clearing it up. Both are good points!

 

[Smith P.]

ff-topic!

 

[Mr Tony]

so what? Lots of threads here in the FTA area go "offtopic". Thats what makes this area different (and better IMO).

So a couple posts "wandered" off...big whoop in my mind and others. Question was asked and answered and no harm was done

you really need to chill

 

[hd fan]

Back to 8PSK , I tried this afternoon briefly (its being raining all day) to lock to LPBS on 125W but nothing. I get the other PBS TP's fine. Do I have to set the Pilot ON or OFF for this one with a Coolsat 8100?. On the LPB website it says Roll Off should be set to 20% but still I get nothing at all. Is that a mux or only a single State wide PBS channel like Montana's?. Thanks.

 

[Mr Tony]

LPB Is real finicky and some times it wont come in

pilot is set to off and FEC is at 3/5

 

[hd fan]

Thanks Iceberg. Today is finally sunny with just very few clouds and without even touching anything , the DVB-S2 8PSK LPB Multiplex finally came in on the slightly wind-deformed 90 cm Flimpsy Fortec Star. And also for the first time I manage to see on the Spectrum Analizer the peak for this LPB Mux (well it is almost 20 Mhz wide so with a 60 or 120 Mhz SPAN option on the birdog it only looks as a hill not a peak). I also saw other peaks on that Horizontal polarisation so I decided to use the blind scan feature of the Coolsat 6000 and found some other QPSK PBS feeds as well. Well those are low SR so it missed 1 of them but it is listed on Lyngsat so I knew what it was. There were others but it could be interference from adjacent 123W and I had no time to play more.

The funny thing with the 8PSK LPB signal, it also locks with the Pilot ON but it takes longer and shows the same Quality that BTW sometimes goes from 40 to 50 gradually. Yesterday with a QPSK signal even with 1% the picture was there although pixilating so I dont know which is the thereshold on this Coolsat 8100. On the old CS 6000 is 65 I beleive. Funny though I remember that even with 57% the 8PSK Uruguayan mux @ 30W was pixilating.

Also Roll Off as per LPB website should be set at 20% but even if you use 25 or the usual 35 used by QPSK the signal also locks fine.

Amazingly they are sending 5 Channels (1 of them LPB HD) on that mux that only has 16666 SR so therefore they only use less than 17 Mhz of TP width yet the picture quality is great.

This time as well with the Florida 8PSK Tp's on 87W the receiver recognizes the HD or Resolution 1080i properly. I remember with the 8PSK Uruguayan Mux on Hispasat it showed 1080i SD but those are MPEG4. I beleive the fact that Uruguay uses the PAL 576i System confuses the receiver, who knows?.

I have been reading more about this DVB-S2 standard and it seems that not necessarily you need stronger signals levels to make it work properly. Although trial and error has showed me that in fact is easier to lock to QPSK signals than it is to lock to 8PSK with the same setup. I have not gather enough info or at least understood it well enough I guess, to make an informed decision.

I beleive I ran out of DVB-S2 signals on Ku for now and since the practical average criteria is to use at least 1m dishes for Ku for this 8PSK signals I guess my goal of hunting them on C Band is unnatainable for now since even a 6 ft Dish is way to big.

Will see what I can do about it. Maybe fight for freedom in Cuba and then set up my own 12 ft C/Ku Band Dish down there, lol. As usual , naive me, lol.

 

[Smith P.]

I would definitely say TSReader/DVB card missing from your config - it will give you a lot of info, will add 100 ms response time for fine peak DVB-S2 mux, and much more in deep analysis any muxes.

As to fight for freedom, well - it's your country, your choice.

 

[Mr Tony]

The funny thing with the 8PSK LPB signal, it also locks with the Pilot ON but it takes longer and shows the same Quality that BTW sometimes goes from 40 to 50 gradually. Yesterday with a QPSK signal even with 1% the picture was there although pixilating so I dont know which is the thereshold on this Coolsat 8100.

yeah I've locked stuff on the 8000 with 2% quality and pixeling. I have locked HD feeds with 17% quality and it held the whole time (was a b-ball game). I dont know what the threshold is on those

On the old CS 6000 is 65 I beleive.

on my 5000 the threshold is 64-65

Amazingly they are sending 5 Channels (1 of them LPB HD) on that mux that only has 16666 SR so therefore they only use less than 17 Mhz of TP width yet the picture quality is great.

possibly that is the advantage of 8PSK....more programming in a smaller transponder.

This time as well with the Florida 8PSK Tp's on 87W the receiver recognizes the HD or Resolution 1080i properly. I remember with the 8PSK Uruguayan Mux on Hispasat it showed 1080i SD but those are MPEG4. I beleive the fact that Uruguay uses the PAL 576i System confuses the receiver, who knows?.

MPEG4 usually shows 1080i I think even though it may not be

I have been reading more about this DVB-S2 standard and it seems that not necessarily you need stronger signals levels to make it work properly. Although trial and error has showed me that in fact is easier to lock to QPSK signals than it is to lock to 8PSK with the same setup. I have not gather enough info or at least understood it well enough I guess, to make an informed decision.

DVB-S2 you do need a bigger dish to lock stuff. There is very little room for error

 

[hd fan]

Smith P, about using the DVB Card? Does the PC have to be a very powerful one? Mine is 3 yrs old running XP home on 512 Mb of RAM w/ a 2 Ghz Celeron only. I would assume is enough just for analizing the stream , I do not even plan on using it as a PVR or anything? I can not afford to make this hobby more expensive than it is already.

As to your last comment, yes , you are right , all we have done is leave and expect the americans to fix the mess, unbeleivable, but sadly true.

Iceberg, How Do you find the DVB-S2 feeds since this CS 8100 does not have blind scan? If I want a C-Band Dish to be motorised for this 8PSK , then it will probably have to be even bigger as the motorised setup is more likely not perfectly aligned as a fixed dish is?. Your thoughts or anyone on this, please?.

OFF topic (as usual, lol) I noticed that at least with the HD stuff from any PBS on 125W the audio tracks are only DD 2.0 not 5.1. Yet on my Bell TV subs , PBS Boston has DD 5.1 audio on the same show. Is it a CS 8100 issue? I am using an optical cable to an Onkyo 605 and I set DD as digital audio option on the CS menu. The box is supposed just to read and stream DD through the S/PDIF optical without even touching the audio track, right?.