811 owners with OTA 49% problem read this
- Thread starter Iceman
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Iceman said:
My 811 had the logo and I still had the 49% problem when I installed it.
By installing a variable attenuator I was able to correct 3 of the 4 stations that were exhibiting the 49% problem.
Bob
rjruby said:
I also installed a attenuator and a Pre-amp. You can get an attenuator at the local Radio Shack. This device plugs inline and has a nob to adjust. I did this and I was able to tune in more solid signal. My guess was that my pre-amp was not helping the signal strength and was increasing mult-pathing issues. There is a lot of stuff on AVSForum having to do with getting the best HD signal. I suggest popping over there to get educated. OTA is an art for sure.
The point that people seem to be forgetting is that everyone who has posted, who also owns another OTA DTV receiver, says they only have these problems with the 811.
I think that is significant. But that's just me.
I think that is significant. But that's just me.
GaryPen said:
Nope.. not forgetting that from my end. As for everyone with another OTA receiver working were the 811 does not, I am sure there are people that have the 811 and it works as good as the OTA receiver it replaced. That would be my guess.
I also feel that like you do that there still is issues with OTA and the 811 based on the reports. I also feel based on the reports that you can overcome some of the issues by adding a attenuator an possible a pre-amp and maybe doing some antenna tweaking. The 6000 was much more forgiven than the 811 but also when it had signal I had a lot more drop out and Picture Corruption. The 811 made me fine tune things more but is given me a more solid signal. Maybe I could have achieved it with the 6000 but it basically took anything so I never was forced to fine tune.
The 811 definitely is more sensitive to multi-pathing than the 6000 and other OTA STBs. I am also convinced there is a bug on the multi-pathing side. However, The point I am trying to make is that you may get around the 811s sensitivity with some external OTA adjustments. As I see it, I would like as much OTA as possible and if I can put some adjustment onto the input I have better chance of tuning things into to maximum by the quality of the signal going in. Or I can not do anything to my existing system because it works with another STB and just wait for dish to fix the problem or adjust down the sensitivity to accept a lower quality signal.
There is a whole forum on AVS that discuss antenna and getting HDTV in your area. After reading a lot of threads, I got the impression that certain antennas work in certain areas better than others. I also learned that an attenuator is a great cheap addition to provide tuning. Also learned that a pre-amp does not always help.
These are some of the things I learned over there and it helped me improved my signal quality a lot when I had my 6000. It also allowed me to tune in on my 811 to the point I have solid channels on most HDTV out here. I know mileage will vary, but it is something to try while you wait for a fix. If you have not already done this one might be surprised at the results. I have seen people on this forum be quick to say, it is not my antenna because the other OTA STB works fine. Well that might be the case, but we all know that 811 is more sensitive and picky than the 6000 so some minor adjustments on the input might make the 811 happy and in the end you get your HDTV. OTA HDTV varies all over the country and each house is different, tweaking might be necessary and have the tools to do it helps a not. My signal without the Pre-amp and attenuator sucked on the 6000 and I am sure would not have worked with the 811.
I am not saying that it is everyone antenna, I don't have enough info and knowledge to even make that statement. I still think there is some OTA 811 software work to be done. I am saying that there are some techniques and things that can be done on the antenna side to improve your signal and to the point the 811 likes it and the end result is you get to watch your HD.
If your antenna has no adjustment other than hoping on the roof and moving it then my suggestion is get an attenuator and possible a preamp and give it a try. There is also other ways with mulitiple antennas to get minimize multi-pathing. Then again you can wait for Dish to fix the software so that it works in your configuration or switch to VOOM or D*. Given Dish's track record on bug fixes in a timely fashion, I personally would make sure there is nothing I can do on the input side to improve the signal quality. Hope this did not sound condescending it was not meant to be. Just an opinion based on what I did to improve my HD signal quality and take it as that.
Well, it's interesting ... but I'm not sure what to make of it. I get plenty of channels that lock quickly without any 49% bounce. And I have some that bounce.
Is the chip malfunction intermittent?
It always sounded to me like multipath and still does. Or could this too be the bad chip?
Any opinions?
Is the chip malfunction intermittent?
It always sounded to me like multipath and still does. Or could this too be the bad chip?
Any opinions?
AcuraCL said:
I would have to say that I dont think it is a bad chip, rather, what has already been said, that it is more sensitive to the multipath problem, so rather than a bad (broken, malfunctioning) chip, it seems more like a chip that just is not as good as other STBs may have. I get 6 DT channels here and was having the 49% problem on 3 of them at any given time. I would mess around constantly (to the point my wife called me "obsessive compulsive") with the antenna and then 2 or 3 of the good ones would have the 49% problem, while the previous bad ones came in fine.
I deicided to buy a SS-1000 winegard that according to them was designed for multipath. I put it up in the same location (attic) as my Big daddy antenna was, and after pointing it at the house accross the street (not even close to line of sight with the towers) I now get all of them without any 49% problem at all. Been that way for 3 weeks now. I am not saying a SS-1000 or any other antenna is better for everyone, it just worked for me. I have to assume it was a multipath issue and a picky STB chip. Not that that is really "O.K." just that it is what it is and you do your best to deal with it.
I have actually spoken to a high level Dish engineering manager responsible for the 811. The 811 "49%" OTA problems are with multipath rejection and dealing with faulty/non-standard encoding at the source, the transmitting stations. The 811 performs much poorer than many other brand receivers in these cases, I have tested them side by side. The good news for Dish is that a only very small percentage of customers are receiving OTA under these conditions. Unfortunately I was one of them. I know they are beginning to investigate the encoding issues. They are just beginning to investigate these problems so don't expect any improvement in OTA until later in the year, if ever. There have been no software updates or hardware fixes to deal with this so far. The "chip" issues rumored in this forum were an availability issue due to a chip factory fire! It caused shortages of 811's for a while. There is no explanation to why some perople get bettr reults with a different 811. My recommendation to anyone still having OTA reception problems is to try another (stand alone) receiver. This will tell you whether it is the 811 or you are just not getting a signal. There are plenty of stores with liberal return policies.
811 problem
I'm certain the 811 has OTA reception problem and I wish Dish would just address it. I used a Samsung SIR-T151 for OTA and always got all the major networks + PBS in my area. When I first got the 811, I found out that it pulls in more channels than the Samsung, including 2 independent stations that I could not get before. However, the 811 just cannot hold or lock the signals now. One night everything would be fine, and then the next nothing can be received and actually shows 0% signal.
I know I can reconnect my Samsung for OTA, but I like the convenience of one receiver. Is it too much for Dish to fix that along with a few other problems?
I'm certain the 811 has OTA reception problem and I wish Dish would just address it. I used a Samsung SIR-T151 for OTA and always got all the major networks + PBS in my area. When I first got the 811, I found out that it pulls in more channels than the Samsung, including 2 independent stations that I could not get before. However, the 811 just cannot hold or lock the signals now. One night everything would be fine, and then the next nothing can be received and actually shows 0% signal.
I know I can reconnect my Samsung for OTA, but I like the convenience of one receiver. Is it too much for Dish to fix that along with a few other problems?
This is the way I have been leaning since I started getting the 49% problem on my local PBS station. All of the other local channels come from pretty much the same direction (SW of me). By checking AntennaWeb.org I found out the direction the stations are transmitting from.babakanoosh said:
NBC 186*
PBS 186*
CBS 186*
ABC 185*
Fox 186*
UPN 187*
WB 186*
My PBS transmitter is in the same direction and all of these stations are about 34-35 miles from me. So, why would it have a problem unless they are transmitting at a lower power or there is something not quite right about their signal. Also, if it is just multipath how is it that if I let the receiver sit on that channel for 5-15 minutes it will eventually lock in and it is rock solid from that point on? Why wouldn't the signal artifact or lose lock periodically. I don't know enough about it to point to a specific issue with their signal but I believe it is something the PBS station is doing that is pretty much ok but it is not dead nuts on the specifications.
It's like my local ABC affiliate is the only one with an audio problem. It sounds like the dolby surround audio is not mixed right for 2 channel stereo and it allows the laugh track an music to be louder than the dialog. I have written to that affiliate to ask about it. So far, no response - surprise, surprise.
Mike
All these multipath "issues" lead to two conclusive trains of thought.
1) HDTV signaling (the OTA transmission of HDTV) using the enconding scheme chosen by the ATSC is "defective" and "susceptible" to reception problems (this is actually well documented on the web!)
2) DISH and A.N. Other DBS provider should be allowed to re-broadcast Local HDTV signals over satellite! (No OTA issues then!).
Fixing the "problem" in the 811 will obviously not work for everyone, as local multipath problems are not
i) repeatable
ii) consistent
iii) deterministic.
We all just have to accept that ATSC HDTV is going to be a problem for EVERYONE. Do the best you can, but remember that ther is no magic solution (with the current OTA broadcast infrastructure).
Don't we just live in wonderful times... just like the first few years of Television itself!
1) HDTV signaling (the OTA transmission of HDTV) using the enconding scheme chosen by the ATSC is "defective" and "susceptible" to reception problems (this is actually well documented on the web!)
2) DISH and A.N. Other DBS provider should be allowed to re-broadcast Local HDTV signals over satellite! (No OTA issues then!).
Fixing the "problem" in the 811 will obviously not work for everyone, as local multipath problems are not
i) repeatable
ii) consistent
iii) deterministic.
We all just have to accept that ATSC HDTV is going to be a problem for EVERYONE. Do the best you can, but remember that ther is no magic solution (with the current OTA broadcast infrastructure).
Don't we just live in wonderful times... just like the first few years of Television itself!
Sir L - you've hit the nail on the head. OTA in and of itself is obsolete.
We've discussed this in other threads, with people ranting on about the free airwaves and all that, but it just doesn't sell in my book - at least not when the Luddites are keeping me from getting the TV I want - and I can't even see their OTA if I'd wanted to!
We've discussed this in other threads, with people ranting on about the free airwaves and all that, but it just doesn't sell in my book - at least not when the Luddites are keeping me from getting the TV I want - and I can't even see their OTA if I'd wanted to!
SatinKzo said:
How old was your previous 811 and was it running version 266 before you swapped it out? How did you get them to replace it?
Just for the record... I get all my locals on my 811 (In Dallas, OTA Nirvana).
Saturday... I lost PBS for the very first time to the 49% error.
Sunday - it came back, but would not properly map itself to it's virtual channel number
Monday - station was normal, and mapped back to it's virtual channel number (with no action taken by me.. ie: no rescan or adding manual)
I sent an email asking the local PBS station if anything was going on with the HD transmitter... they told me they were experimenting with some changes to the PSIP data. I followed up by asking them if they made any changes to the transmit power, and they replied no.
Leads credability to the theory that corrupt/invalid PSIP data can cause the 49% error (in addition to multipath errors causing it, as well).
By the way... even while I couldn't get PBS at all on the 811 Saturday, I still got it on my Samsung box.
Saturday... I lost PBS for the very first time to the 49% error.
Sunday - it came back, but would not properly map itself to it's virtual channel number
Monday - station was normal, and mapped back to it's virtual channel number (with no action taken by me.. ie: no rescan or adding manual)
I sent an email asking the local PBS station if anything was going on with the HD transmitter... they told me they were experimenting with some changes to the PSIP data. I followed up by asking them if they made any changes to the transmit power, and they replied no.
Leads credability to the theory that corrupt/invalid PSIP data can cause the 49% error (in addition to multipath errors causing it, as well).
By the way... even while I couldn't get PBS at all on the 811 Saturday, I still got it on my Samsung box.
How old was your previous 811 and was it running version 266 before you swapped it out? How did you get them to replace it?
Well, I got it with 265 on it in end of Feb, when 266 was loaded I started having all the normal problems everyone else has. I never got 267 that is spooling now and today I expected when I loaded the new receiver I would get 267, nope, it came with 265 and downloaded 266.
Anyways, a week ago I lost all my OTA channels and when I treid to readd them, it found nothing on scans and got no signal from manually adding them. Then in one night the receiver just started to reboot itself, 5 times in 4 hours. I called dish the next day and explained everything to them. Very easy RMA (obviously the rebooting thing they weren't gonna blow off) and they credited me 2 days programming while the new receiver was shipped.
I took time to examine the new one compared to the old one. I didn't get a dishpro logo on it, but I did notice on the back, there were stickers over the orginals, but I have different mainboard numbers on the new receiver then the old one (not sure if this is normal or not or if every receiver has a different mainboard rev number) Also, there were a couple other stickers by the outputs labeling the outputs. The FCC ID area and UL listing area are different.
Once up and running, I checked the info. Same bootstrap etc. nothing different in here that shouldn't be. So, I went to scan for ota channels. It scanned pretty fast compared to my old one and found all the ones I think are in the area. For fun I also scanned analog and found more channels than I normally do.
Time will tell tomorrow if I still have the ota mappings, but right now it looks like hardware. Another note, the UHF remote is responding much better than my old one.
SatinKzo said:
Before things started to go Bonkers on your box, did you get the same OTA channels and were they stable as your current box or did not not get them with your old box. Based on what you are describing, it sounds like you box went bad.
