65% signal, no quality: Sonicview,90cm,StabHH90 in Boston - Please Help

[Pianoman]

Equipment: Sonicview 4000, Invacom Quad (QPH-031), Fortec FC-90 Dish, Stab HH-90 Motor, DisEqC 4-1 switch

Location: 41.53N, 71.75W

Configuration:
Motor Elevation = my latitude (41.5)
Dish elevation = 38.5 (based on the formula at - STAB HH motor dish angle calculation mount Satellite Look Angles)
Connections: Receiver to HH-90 Motor, to DisEqC switch, then from the switch I have 4 cables going to each one of the 4 outsputs of QPH-031 (2 linear, and 2 circular in no particular order)

- I get upto 63% signal but the quality is always 0%
- As per the recomendations on Dish Pointing Tips when one gets 40-60 signal without any quality, I have gone back and verified that the pole is plumb, and verified that I have my angles right
- I have tried in vain to get AMC6/Nahuel1 (72 deg) which is the closest bird to my location

As for the settings in the receiver, I am guessing what they should be. for now I have:
- LNB type = Universal (9750 - 10600 freq) or Single (10050)
- Transponder = 12070 (trying to catch the weather channel on Ku band)
- 22Khz (no idea what this is) = off
- Search option = All (both FTA and CAS)
- Network Search = off
- DisreqC = off
- Motor = Since I have not set the USALS reference successfully, I am manually turning the pole to adjust to get a picture with no success in getting any quality

Any help, ideas or tips are appreciated. I am excited about FTA (I mostly watch PBS, Discovery etc, and the thought of quitting Comcast and accessing foreign programming is adding to the excitement).

Thx in advance

 

[turbosat]

I don't know what type lnb that is, universal or standard, maybe the site you got it from has the specs, if its universal set the LNB LO freq to 10600, a standard lnb gets 10750mhz. Another thing to simplify matters would be to bypass the switch and connect rec directly to the lnbf first>but if you have it wired already you have to set
a port on the switch for the satellite you are scanning for..
Another tip to make things easier is to have a small tv out by your dish , if possible, so you can get immediate feedback on your adjustments. If your lnbf is universal I believe the 22mhz tone has to be turned ON. Try 12053H for the nbc feeds on amc6 also.(should get 4channels on a scan if you hit the satellite)

 

[Anole]

ramdom thoughts

Here is the web page for your LNB, at Invacom.
You can click on the PDF link there for more info.
To use your linear LNB , connect to one of the L ports not one marked C.
The LNB is standard , so the LO or Local Oscillator frequency is: 10750 mhz

The 22khz tone is unused , so off is fine.

If you are not going to set usals and adjust your motor, you might as well bypass it and your switch, just to get started.
If you have no quality, you have no signal.

PBS will most likely have AC3 audio, so to get sound, you may have to connect the optical audio output to your hi fi system (assuming that FTA receiver has one).

 

[Pianoman]

In the sonicview menu settings LNB type options are: single, OCS, and Universal. Is single the same as standard?

When I was outside (during the day), I noticed that only SAT1 connection the switch get the signal to jump to 60 (I had a TV outside nex to the ladder), does this mean that the 60% signal is just noise if I have no quality?

are there other reasons why I would be getting no quality (bad LNBD, obstruction, wrong elevation etc?). Thanksa again for your hel and idead

 

[Pianoman]

Since I got the FTA equipment partly as a hobby, I would hate have an installer take away all the fun, pain and toil and charge me as much as the thing cost me to install it,

Does anyone have information on the correct motor and dish elevation values/formula that I should use?

Is the a definite satellite I can point to and get a good signal? I can use that to t least get picture/sound n one SAT; then I can spend some time looking for the others going-forward.

Is there someone willing to get the thing aligned for me for a fee?

 

[qwert1515]

I am glad that you are exited about FTA, unfortunately with FTA you can not pick up the Discovery channel.

The most interesting channels are probably the ones you will find by smart or blind scanning they are called feeds.

Also most of the time if not all of the time, the Weather channel is encrypted.

If you go to Lyngsat (North & South America - LyngSat) and select a satellite you can only receive the ones listed as DVB under the "Video Encryption" item.

For example if you look at 72 Degrees west the Weather channel is encrypted with Irdeto, which means that you can not get it for free, on some occasions some encrypted channels change to free preview mode which you can watch with FTA equipment.

With a 90cm dish you will get almost every Ku transponder out there.

If you continue to try at 72 Degrees West a very strong transponder is:

Satellite: 72 AMC 6
Channel: Gospel Broadcasting Network
Frequency:12144 MHz
Polarity: Vertical
Symbol Rate: 2573 Symbols
Vid PID: 33
Aid PID: 34
PCR PID: 8190

Also take a look at Iceberg's list of strong transponders. (I need a strong transponder to aim my dish at)

I did not notice you or anyone else mention this, could be because you are pointing to a satellite close to your true South, for satellites away from your true South you must take the LNB or dish skew into account.
When you get the motor working keep the skew at zero because as the motor tilts the dish it is skewed correctly for all satellites. (Except AMC 1 @ 103.0°W)

For your location for a fixed dish to be pointed at 72°W:

42.6 degrees ° Elevation.
181.5 °Azimuth (Geographic).
1.2 ° LNBF polarization tilt (skew) counter clockwise.

Also the elevation reading on the dish scale could be off by up to 10°.

And finally another thing to keep in mind, the dish is actually receiving signals from about 22° higher than it looks like it is pointing to.

 

[stogie5150]

I have a Sonicview 4000 and a QPH-031. Unfortunately I do not have the STAB motor, I have an SG-2100.

But anyway, your LNB frequency is separate from the type of LNB. Set your type to standard and right below that there should be a lnb frequency. Set that to 10750 for the 'L' leg of the LNB and 11250 for the 'C' leg of the LNB. You really only need two of the outputs hooked up for one receiver. I suggest that you hook the 'L' output on the LNB to Port 1 of your diseq switch,and the 'C' leg of the lnb to Port 2 of your diseq switch. Then, depending on the satellite you are trying to hit, you can tell the Sonicview in the same setup screen which disec port to look for the signal on, 1 or 2. BTW you must have disecq option ON in the Sonicview setup for each satellite AND tell it which disecq port to listen in to for each satellite.

If you have any more setup trouble post again and I will run my dish over to AMC6 and take a screenshot for you to show you how mine is setup.:up

Motor, sorry I cannot help you other than generally.

 

[Pianoman]

"another thing to keep in mind, the dish is actually receiving signals from about 22° higher than it looks like it is pointing to"

This should be a good thing for me because I had to install a 6 ftp pole above my roof to avoid my neighbours over-grown plant. Currently the dish is above the leaves, and if it is receiving from 22 degrees above the face, then I am sure there are no obstructions.

Elevation:
My motor elevation is set to 41.5 or .6 (cannot really differentiate between .5 and .6 cause it is just between two small units on the scale)
There is another elevation scale on the FC-90 Fortec dish... for that one I used the calculation to come up with 38.5. qwert1515, when you say that it could be 10 degrees off, do you mean I should set it to 28.5 or 48.5? Is there a way of knowing the correct units instead of trying all the units between 28 and 49?

LNBF
My LNBF does not have a skew measurement on the label. Here is what the label says:
INVACOM NF 0.3 dB
Quad Polar Legacy 4 O/P LNB
QPH-031
10.75/11.25Ghz
5050919GA0021005
Made in China
It also has no markings of degrees on it so that I can know what 1 degree of skew would be without estimating or using a protractor and a plumb-line (I assume that I am expected to point everythingdue-south and let the motor twst properly skew the LNBF).

Sonicview Setup
I tried to get the settings for
Satellite: 72 AMC 6
Channel: Gospel Broadcasting Network
Frequency:12144 MHz
Polarity: Vertical
but that transponder frequency in not available in the choices, and Sonicview does not ask me to specify polarity (unless that is not a value to be specified by me, but provided by the transponder)
* I am assuming that "standard" is the same as "single" transponder type.

One thing that remains a complete mystery to me is that Whenever I change settings, move the dish around, adjust elevation (I am confident about the motor elevation, but still not sure that I have the correct Dish elevation), I am able to get the signal strength to go upto about 65% for certain satellites. But I always get a quality value of 0% can anyone point to what could be causing this?
Thanks again everyone for the help you are providing

 

[turbosat]

On the signal rise question, you may be getting a slight increase in signal because you are passing near a satellite but not quite zeroing in on it yet.

 

[Pianoman]

Do you have a suggestion as to why I am not able to get any quality at all?
When I get a signal rise, it drops again (I guess I pass the high point), but I do not see any quality at any point, even now at at 79% signal for Nahuel 1A (72 degrees W - my true south from 71.75)

 

[qwert1515]

"

Elevation:
My motor elevation is set to 41.5 or .6 (cannot really differentiate between .5 and .6 cause it is just between two small units on the scale)
There is another elevation scale on the FC-90 Fortec dish... for that one I used the calculation to come up with 38.5. qwert1515, when you say that it could be 10 degrees off, do you mean I should set it to 28.5 or 48.5? Is there a way of knowing the correct units instead of trying all the units between 28 and 49?

Let me know if I understand you correctly.

Your motor is at 42 degrees elevation, and the dish scale is at 39 degrees elevation?
Does your dish look as if it is pointing at 81 degrees elevation?

When pointing at 72 degrees west your dish should look as if it is pointing about 20 Degrees into the sky.

 

[Wescopc]

If you can put an inclinometer (also know as a clinometer) on the front face (rim) of the dish it should be 14° up from horizontal ( 38.6°-24.6° i.e. dish elevation less dish offset). This is the easiest way to check elevation when you are not sure of the accuracy of the built in scale on the dish.
Bob

 

[stogie5150]

You can add a Transponder.....highlight the transponder, hit OK. At the bottom of your screen there should be some colored dots and next to one of them should be add TP. Press that colored button, put the TP frequency, signal rate and polarization. The rest you can leave blank. Exit out and it will ask you to save. Press yes and it will save your new transponder.

 

[Pianoman]

I have only AMC4, but cannot get quality on AMC6/1 at 83% strength

I have made some advances in the last day due to your help.
I went back out and measured the south, added 14.9 declination for Zip code 01453, and I was able to get a signal of upto 83% strength for AMC6 Nahuel/1. Strangely, even after adding the Christian Channel transponder recommended, I am not able to get any quality... I even did not know what the signal tone should sound like.

The LNB doe snot have a skew scale, and I am not to adjust this except for the reference (due south) satellite because the motor will take care of skewing the LNB when it turns. This afternoon, I went out there and made sure the pole was plumb, and played with the elevation. While trying to get AMC6, I accidentally lost power and when I reconnected, the receiver landed on AMC4, and I had a 14% quality. I adjusted the LNB further and I was able to get 80%quality and 70% signal.

My problem now is that I am getting 101 degrees AMC4 with the motor at 0degrees skew. I tried to get AMC6 (due south), but despite the 80+ signal, I cannot get any quality (Please help!!)

I was able to get the receiver to adjust the motor to 101 degrees, and then I played with the compass direction to get 8 channels from AMC4. I can point at AMC6/Nahuel/1 and get 75+ signal, but I get 0 quality.

I need help to understand what I should do to to get some signal quality from the 80% signal of AMC6 (which I assume will enable me to find all 200 birds int he sky effortlessly using USALS).

 

[stogie5150]

If you used USALS and it lands on a satellite, tweak the elevation and azimuth and get it the best you can. Using USALS it should track the arc from there IF your pole is plumb.My SV-4k will not work wih USALS so if yours does you are ahead of me....

 

[Pianoman]

I think that at this point I understand the process very well and the limited success today has given me fuel and encouragement to work towards mapping all the birds in space. I was using two spirit levels as recommended by the local installer that I talked to a few days ago with the promise to let him do it if I get no success. But I think that I am missing the curve cause the bubble might look OK when it's close, but not "right on the money". I will buy an inclinometer in the next day and really get the thing as plumb as anything could be.

Once I get it working, I will testify and hopefully assists someone else to get his/hers working too

 

[stogie5150]

I use a four foot construction level, as good of quality as you can afford. I used a black aluminum one from Lowe's I picked up quite a few years back.

The idea with USALS is that once you hit ONE satellite with good signal quality you can lock down all the bolts and if you use USALS to go to the next satellite it will be dead on. That worked with my Coolsat 5000 very well. Didn't work so well with my Sonicview 4000, USALS didn't work at all...I had to drive the motor to a point near due south, hit the satellite ( G-11 for me IIRC), get it tweaked for maximum quality, then lock it all down. I had to use the continuous function of the Sonicview to drive the motor until I saw signal for each consecutive satellite, then tweak them motor east/west, then store the position. I had to do that with about 10 satellites.

 

[Pianoman]

I believe that USALS works or will work properly one I have an exact verification that plumb means plumb 90 degrees. For now, for the satellites that I have (AMC4,6) when I select one or the other, the dish moves to the next location. I hope that I do not run into any issues with it. I ordered a Johnson level last night from Amazon.com: Johnson Level & Tool 700 Magnetic Angle Locator and that one gives upto 0.5 degree precision. My pole is mounted on the front corner of the house with brackets, but I need to fine-tune the plumb/level settings further before I can complain that the satellites have been removed from orbit

 

[stogie5150]

That pole will have to be level ALL the time. No exceptions. I have had poles in concrete that weren't level enough because the pole itself flexed. My 1m dish is on a 3" piece of drilling pipe because the fence post I had was flexing. Pole is the most critical part with a motor, IMO.:up

 

[Pianoman]

I have a 38mm aluminium conduit pipe supporting the dish (90cm). After measuring again, I see that it is not 100% plumb all around cause the braces I am using are not holding it perfectly in line. I will go to home-depot today and fine a way to mount it with a system that can allow me to tweak the incline using bolts so that I can tweak the incline ever so precisely (with the baces, when the bolt is going in, it could push the pipe one way)