622 OTA signal loss

[dogpoobob]

The Memphis problem has been fixed. The problem is the firmware in the exciter. The manufacturer and Fox is now aware of it.

The engineer at the Fox station in Memphis has allowed me to share their solution to the problem. Here is his post from the AVS forum:

"The exciter is an Axcera DT2B, and the bad firmware is version 4.25a. The one that we rolled back to is version 4.18c. The issue we have had with that version was that the exciter loses its output when there is a disruption of the SMPTE 310 transport stream input. This, however, happened pretty rarely, and is preferred over lots of people not being able to see American Idol from using version 4.25a!"

Hope this will help others. I hate missing 24 in HD!!!

 

[barrysb]

The engineer at the Fox station in Memphis has allowed me to share their solution to the problem. Here is his post from the AVS forum:

"The exciter is an Axcera DT2B, and the bad firmware is version 4.25a. The one that we rolled back to is version 4.18c. The issue we have had with that version was that the exciter loses its output when there is a disruption of the SMPTE 310 transport stream input. This, however, happened pretty rarely, and is preferred over lots of people not being able to see American Idol from using version 4.25a!"

Hope this will help others. I hate missing 24 in HD!!!

What receive condition did this problem create? Were you frequently having pixelation, motorboating sound, and complete loss of signal?

 

[dogpoobob]

What receive condition did this problem create? Were you frequently having pixelation, motorboating sound, and complete loss of signal?

Check all the posts here for a synopsis of the problem occurring all over the country.

 

[barrysb]

Check all the posts here for a synopsis of the problem occurring all over the country.

I'm concerned the same symptom of intermittent signal loss might be caused by different problems. My symptom was alleviated by inserting attenuation into the OTA input on the 622. Was yours?

 

[ScottE]

St. Louis CW11

I will try an antennuator and hope it works. Right now in St. Louis CW11 OTA comes in for me between 95 and 100 signal strength but I get pixelations and signal losses. This never happened before I switched to Dish. I cant figure out whats causing it and Dish seems to have no answer so I will give the anntenuator a shot.

I assume I can find these at Radio Shack. Do you have the part number and do I have to daisy chain multiple ones to get to 21db? Also if my assumption about Radio Shack having them is false where can I get one at?

 

[LER]

I sent a note to KTBC-DT's engineers with the FOX fix from DogPooBob.

Hopefully that will get the KTBC (Fox7 here in Austin) problem fixed as well.

Thanks, DogPooBob!

LER

 

[barrysb]

I will try an antennuator and hope it works. Right now in St. Louis CW11 OTA comes in for me between 95 and 100 signal strength but I get pixelations and signal losses. This never happened before I switched to Dish. I cant figure out whats causing it and Dish seems to have no answer so I will give the anntenuator a shot.

I assume I can find these at Radio Shack. Do you have the part number and do I have to daisy chain multiple ones to get to 21db? Also if my assumption about Radio Shack having them is false where can I get one at?

I looked at RS web site and couldn't find any attenuators. http://www.hometech.com/video/atten.html is a possible source.

 

[boy921]

dogpoobob,

Your information is most helpful here. Thanks for your input. I talked to the Chief Engineer of our FOX station (KCVU FOX 30 DT). They too have the exact same model exciter, however they do not have the means to modify the firmware, informing that they are again using the manufactures loner exciter and have sent the new exciter back to the manufacturer. It looks like a fix is on the way but it will be a few days for the fix unless they can manage to change the firmware themselves. Also what is the station ID for the Memphis FOX station providing the fix info.?

I'm not giving up on E* engineers improving the performance of the ViP ATSC tuners. I suggest that anyone with an E* ATSC tuner having issues such as these report it for their future consideration in making the tuner work better.

John

The engineer at the Fox station in Memphis has allowed me to share their solution to the problem. Here is his post from the AVS forum:

"The exciter is an Axcera DT2B, and the bad firmware is version 4.25a. The one that we rolled back to is version 4.18c. The issue we have had with that version was that the exciter loses its output when there is a disruption of the SMPTE 310 transport stream input. This, however, happened pretty rarely, and is preferred over lots of people not being able to see American Idol from using version 4.25a!"

Hope this will help others. I hate missing 24 in HD!!!

 

[dogpoobob]

I'm concerned the same symptom of intermittent signal loss might be caused by different problems. My symptom was alleviated by inserting attenuation into the OTA input on the 622. Was yours?

I never tried the attenuator solution. Our problem in Memphis is FIXED We are clean as a whistle on the guys here that have 622s. The Engineer at WHBQ, channel 13, here posted on AVS Forum that the transmitter mfgr. was getting calls from all over the country requesting the old firmware. If you can get your local to roll back, I'll bet your problem will go away. They did some testing today with the old and the new firmware and they cannot detect the problem at the transmitter. The only way it can be seen is at a location of a STB that is affected by the exciter firmware.

 

[barrysb]

I never tried the attenuator solution. Our problem in Memphis is FIXED We are clean as a whistle on the guys here that have 622s. The Engineer at WHBQ, channel 13, here posted on AVS Forum that the transmitter mfgr. was getting calls from all over the country requesting the old firmware. If you can get your local to roll back, I'll bet your problem will go away. They did some testing today with the old and the new firmware and they cannot detect the problem at the transmitter. The only way it can be seen is at a location of a STB that is affected by the exciter firmware.

Thanks for the info. My problem hasn't been with Fox but with the local NBC affiliate which has the same owner as the local Fox station! I'll forward this info to the person that's the CE for both stations. FWIW, if attenuation also fixes the problem at your location, it might give the engineers a clue as to what was causing the problem.

 

[bobinchico]

...One possibility is that KCVU DT signal is being reflected on a newly located reflective surface between me and their transmitter

John, I live in Chico and must have a different angle between me and the same transmitter and have the same problem. With both 30-1 (FOX) and 30-2. It is pixelating constantly and even losing the signal briefly showing the yellow loss of signal screen.

dogpoobob,
...I'm not giving up on E* engineers improving the performance of the ViP ATSC tuners. I suggest that anyone with an E* ATSC tuner having issues such as these report it for their future consideration in making the tuner work better.

John

I posted about this on the 622 running bug thread earlier tonight after talking with Dish. A short summary of my post:

I split my cable from the OTA with a Radio Shack 16-2568 splitter (40-2150Mhz). One cable going to the 622 and the other to my Panasonic TH-50PX60U. I switched the cables out from the splitter and no change. I disconnected splitter and put in a coupler and went direct to 622. Still no change. Deleted all locals and rescanned. Rebooted. Nothing solved the problem. Called Dish Tech and described what was happening and all I'd done to try and isolate the problem. After a period of time, and after the tech guy talked with someone else, he was going to write it up as a possible software issue.

It's nice to know KCVU is working on solving this problem from their end. I dislike having to watch live TV.

 

[barrysb]

John, I live in Chico and must have a different angle between me and the same transmitter and have the same problem. With both 30-1 (FOX) and 30-2. It is pixelating constantly and even losing the signal briefly showing the yellow loss of signal screen.



I posted about this on the 622 running bug thread earlier tonight after talking with Dish. A short summary of my post:

I split my cable from the OTA with a Radio Shack 16-2568 splitter (40-2150Mhz). One cable going to the 622 and the other to my Panasonic TH-50PX60U. I switched the cables out from the splitter and no change. I disconnected splitter and put in a coupler and went direct to 622. Still no change. Deleted all locals and rescanned. Rebooted. Nothing solved the problem. Called Dish Tech and described what was happening and all I'd done to try and isolate the problem. After a period of time, and after the tech guy talked with someone else, he was going to write it up as a possible software issue.

It's nice to know KCVU is working on solving this problem from their end. I dislike having to watch live TV.

I know large value attenuators are not readily available and I'm sounding like a broken record, but >20 dB attenuation inserted into the OTA input on my 622 is giving me error free reception on a channel that gave me the same problem you are experiencing. The signal strength of this channel with attenuation hovers around 75.

 

[bobinchico]

I know large value attenuators are not readily available and I'm sounding like a broken record, but >20 dB attenuation inserted into the OTA input on my 622 is giving me error free reception on a channel that gave me the same problem you are experiencing. The signal strength of this channel with attenuation hovers around 75.

If you go to the 622 Running Bug Thread at the top of this forum and check pages 39 (starting at post #387) and page 40 you will see what has been transpiring with this issue. In better detail than this thread. After all I've read I don't feel it is necessary to spend money on an attenuator to lower my signal strength from 91-92 to 75, when I feel the fix will be first addressed by the local station and later in a software update to the 622.

 

[barrysb]

If you go to the 622 Running Bug Thread at the top of this forum and check pages 39 (starting at post #387) and page 40 you will see what has been transpiring with this issue. In better detail than this thread. After all I've read I don't feel it is necessary to spend money on an attenuator to lower my signal strength from 91-92 to 75, when I feel the fix will be first addressed by the local station and later in a software update to the 622.

Thanks for the reference. I found the Running Bug Thread very difficult to search to find info on this subject. That's why I started a new thread. Plus I haven't found anyone else that's tried the attenuation solution, which also might be a clue to what's causing the problem. In this area, the Director of Engineering of the station that's giving me a problem thinks it's either signal overload or a distant station interfering with his signal. I'm sure it's not the former but could be the latter. You have more faith than me regarding a quick solution to the problem. There may be more than one reason causing our frustrations.

 

[dogpoobob]

Thanks for the reference. I found the Running Bug Thread very difficult to search to find info on this subject. That's why I started a new thread. Plus I haven't found anyone else that's tried the attenuation solution, which also might be a clue to what's causing the problem. In this area, the Director of Engineering of the station that's giving me a problem thinks it's either signal overload or a distant station interfering with his signal. I'm sure it's not the former but could be the latter. You have more faith than me regarding a quick solution to the problem. There may be more than one reason causing our frustrations.

I think you are looking for bugs in the wrong places. Note the text of the two posts by the WHBQ Fox 13 DT engineer in Memphis:

"We're going to switch to the other exciter (the one with the bad firmware) for a few minutes to take some readings on our test equipment. I'm looking for a way to identify this problem if it ever happens again, and making an A/B comparison is the easiest way. It should only be for a short time, but we may lose the entire signal for a few seconds, and then have the Dish Network receivers freak out for a few minutes, and then we'll switch back to the good exciter. I'll make a post here when we finish testing." 1/19/07 @ 1:50 P.M.

"Out testing is finished, and we've put the good exciter back on the air. As I suspected, there was no indication of a difference between the good one and the bad one on our test equipment. Whatever is bad must be pretty subtle. Once the transmitter manufacturer gets a handle on what caused it, maybe they can figure out a way for us to see it happen." 1/19/07 @ 2:25 P.M.

They seem pretty convinced that the exciter firmware is interfering with the affected STBs. Attenuation may alleviate the problem, but I doubt that it is the problem.

 

[boy921]

John, I live in Chico and must have a different angle between me and the same transmitter and have the same problem. With both 30-1 (FOX) and 30-2. It is pixelating constantly and even losing the signal briefly showing the yellow loss of signal screen.

Yes, I have a friend in chico who has both a 211 and 411, exact same problems with both. Antenuation has no effect. Nor does realigning antennas, etc.

...Called Dish Tech and described what was happening and all I'd done to try and isolate the problem. After a period of time, and after the tech guy talked with someone else, he was going to write it up as a possible software issue...

I am corresponding with the Tech Division at E*. It is an uphill climb and it is very difficult for them to understand. E* engineers were put in the loop yesterday, maybe they can make the ATSC tuners in the 211/622 better. What would really help is that if every person with an affected ViP receiver would call and report the ATSC tuner problems, then E* would better realize that there are problems and would put greater emphasis in correcting the problems. Their focus is with satellite so OTA is pretty low on the priority list. What E* can do is interface with Axcera. E* can do actual testing of the VIP ATSC tuner with the DT2B ATSC Exciter-Modulator with the firmware issues and git-r-fixed. If first generation ATSC tuners work fine with this known problem, shouldn't the ATSC tuners in the ViP work just as well?

 

[wayne231]

Yes, I have a friend in chico who has both a 211 and 411, exact same problems with both. Antenuation has no effect. Nor does realigning antennas, etc.


I am corresponding with the Tech Division at E*. It is an uphill climb and it is very difficult for them to understand. E* engineers were put in the loop yesterday, maybe they can make the ATSC tuners in the 211/622 better. What would really help is that if every person with an affected ViP receiver would call and report the ATSC tuner problems, then E* would better realize that there are problems and would put greater emphasis in correcting the problems. Their focus is with satellite so OTA is pretty low on the priority list. What E* can do is interface with Axcera. E* can do actual testing of the VIP ATSC tuner with the DT2B ATSC Exciter-Modulator with the firmware issues and git-r-fixed. If first generation ATSC tuners work fine with this known problem, shouldn't the ATSC tuners in the ViP work just as well?

The engineers at Dish are well aware of the problem and what is causing it. They are working with the Axcera engineers to solve the problem.

 

[boy921]

The engineers at Dish are well aware of the problem and what is causing it. They are working with the Axcera engineers to solve the problem.

Excellent!

 

[barrysb]

The engineers at Dish are well aware of the problem and what is causing it. They are working with the Axcera engineers to solve the problem.

However, the transmitter I have a problem with does not use the Axcera exciter. I still think we have different things causing the same symptoms in the 622. Also, in my case, attenuation works to alleviate the symptom but does not solve the problem.

 

[boy921]

KCVU DT FOX 30 DMA 130 Fixed Chico/Redding

11:40 AM the digital channels returned to the airwaves at full power and are working with my 622's. Are other affected FOX stations working again? Many thanks dogpoobob!