Yikes! New hd-dvd players needed to for 51gb discs?

[ramimac]

I agree that it should work correctly without requiring an upgrade, but I also like the idea that they can upgrade the FW later to include new features or fix bugs that were unforseen previously. Sometimes you just can't catch them all before you launch a product.

I agree wit you that new features are great. i am not bad mouthing that FW updates are needed. i am an old school pc Tech so i undestand all the ins and outs of updates.

I am more or less speaking about J6P who will not be able to completely understand all this update stuff and why it will need to be done. That is who i am worried about.

 

[ONUOsFan]

I am more or less speaking about J6P who will not be able to completely understand all this update stuff and why it will need to be done. That is who i am worried about.

I've thought the same thing more than once... this is what could really hurt both formats down the road... someone buys a player for their Mom/Grandma/etc, and then a year later it won't do something it's supposed to do because they don't have a clue how to update the firmware, or what firmware is for that matter...

 

[gadgtfreek]

How many people are going to buy(bought) an el cheapo HDDVD player that have no idea what firmware is or how to burn an iso?

 

[vurbano]

Vurbano, there are way too many posts on this issue for you to play innocent here. Yelling FUD does not make this little fact go away.

Commentary: Combo Discs - What Went Wrong? | High-Def Digest

Excerpt: "Worse than that, the damn discs don't even work half the time! Just the other night, I sat down to watch my recently-purchased HD DVD copy of '300' on my Toshiba HD-XA2 player, and I only made it 45 minutes before the stupid thing froze up and ceased playback. No matter how many times I try to restart the movie, the disc will not play beyond Chapter 14. This is an extremely high-profile release; in fact, it's currently the best-selling title on either the HD DVD or Blu-ray formats, and the disc won't function in a top-of-the-line HD DVD player! Who wants to put up with nonsense like that? I certainly don't.

Let's not kid ourselves that this is an isolated defective disc or a one-time anomaly. Complaints about playback problems on '300' are widespread, and similar compatibility issues have plagued earlier Combo releases such as 'Children of Men', 'The Good Shepherd', 'Happy Feet', 'Superman Returns', and 'The Matrix Reloaded' (copies from the expensive 'Ultimate Matrix Collection' box set which has the bonus features in DVD format on the flip-side of the disc). Some of these will only work properly on second-generation HD DVD players but not first-generation models, and some bizarrely just the opposite. Some function fine on Toshiba's players but not on Microsoft's HD DVD add-on accessory for the XBox 360, and others vice versa. Some don't work right on any player at all."

Glad you are not having problems Vurbano, but lots of folks do -- I guess we can consider you lucky!

FUD. I had to send my initial copy of the 300 back because of a problem with its layering. Its replacement which arrived 2 days later was flawless. The problem was only with some of the 300 discs in the first batch they ran. Disc pressings are not 100% perfect everytime. I also have the good sheppard and happy feet. I guarantee that most of the complaints are from idiots that have not upgraded their firmware.

But how about a thread on this little gem? (if I havent already)

Blu-ray disc coatings starting to rot? - Engadget

Blu-ray disc coatings starting to rot?

Posted Jun 16th 2007 6:11PM by Conrad Quilty-Harper
Filed under: Home Entertainment

Who wants discs that rot?

You know as well as I do that this happens from time to time, yet Hidefdigest writes an irresponsible article like that? Tell me specifically. Today which movies do not play on which Toshiba players?????????

 

[ramimac]

How many people are going to buy(bought) an el cheapo HDDVD player that have no idea what firmware is or how to burn an iso?

It will be more wide spread than you think.

why elce do you think that Toshiba and others will send you an update cd if you request one.

You have better hope that the "I don't know what a FW update is" people start to buy into HD or BD or nither will live beyond a nitch market.

what you will see are a ton of AS-IS broken players on e-bay that will only need a FW update. because most of the time these people are even to bothered to call tech support for help.

 

[JoeSp]

Vurbano, I have 79 BD discs, most of the last 15 I have purchased are 2 bd discs per movie, and I have not one disc with this problem. Interesting thing is I don't believe that there has been a BD disc that just will not work even with this problem. You just about have to dig a canal on the disc for it to stop working. Quit trying to cover up your mistake by redirecting. It really is hard for you to admit a mistake isn't it?

 

[vurbano]

Vurbano, I have 79 BD discs, ........

I'm sorry?

Interesting thing is I don't believe that there has been a BD disc that just will not work even with this problem.

The defect is immediately visible to the naked eye and appears as a pattern of dots on the reflective surface of the disc. Users are reporting that the surface of the unplayable discs is still smooth to the touch, indicating that the defect is occurring beneath the top coating.
DailyTech - Users Discover Isolated Case of Blu-ray Disc Rot

You just about have to dig a canal on the disc for it to stop working.

Apparently not. Based on the above you should reconsider that statement. Just more of your FUD.

Quit trying to cover up your mistake by redirecting. It really is hard for you to admit a mistake isn't it?

No mistakes here, But Papa Smurf just keeps trolling along on his FUD train.

 

[JoeSp]

It is not wheather or not a disc works but if one create problems working and since I have yet to read were a HD-DVD disc has a problem the the answer is none on the regular 30gb discs. But every other month I read were a combo HD-DVD disc has problems in some players so there must be something to some players having problems with an extra layer on the disc. I did not make this up -- you want more answers then I provided then go and use google -- I am sure you know how.

 

[vurbano]

It is not wheather or not a disc works but if one create problems working and since I have yet to read were a HD-DVD disc has a problem the the answer is none on the regular 30gb discs. But every other month I read were a combo HD-DVD disc has problems in some players so there must be something to some players having problems with an extra layer on the disc. I did not make this up -- you want more answers then I provided then go and use google -- I am sure you know how.

Currently, what disc does not play in what Toshiba player?

BTW Papa smurf, the latest "disc doesnt work" thread at AVS refers to the Die hard movie on BD not working on a sammy BD player. Funny I dont see any recent threads in the HD DVD section.

 

[teachsac]

Hmmm. Haven't had a problem with discs on my Gen 1, Gen 2, Gen 3, or Panasonic. People do have problems with discs in both formats. It's not as wide spread as people are making it out to be. The only ones you hear are complainers. You rarely hear from people whose discs play fine. All of mine do.

 

[vurbano]

Face it Joe. SOny is getting itchy feet, Warner passed on BD, most of the existing BD players will NEVER conform to your final specs and your much touted BD+ was just sold off after being cracked which will give FOX and Disney another reason to jump ship. Throw in the fact that the BD players are priced too high and you are losing money hand over fist on the PS3 and giving away movies to fake sales rates and things just do not look good for BD.

 

[randers29259]

Vurbano

FUD. I had to send my initial copy of the 300 back because of a problem with its layering. Its replacement which arrived 2 days later was flawless. The problem was only with some of the 300 discs in the first batch they ran. Disc pressings are not 100% perfect everytime. I also have the good sheppard and happy feet. I guarantee that most of the complaints are from idiots that have not upgraded their firmware.

But how about a thread on this little gem? (if I havent already)

Blu-ray disc coatings starting to rot? - Engadget


In the article you link to, they state that it was a manufacturing defect, and the disks were replaced, is that any different then what happened to the 300 disk ?

 

[vurbano]

In the article you link to, they state that it was a manufacturing defect, and the disks were replaced, is that any different then what happened to the 300 disk ?

nope. Did I say it was?

 

[John Kotches]

im my eyes a CE Device should not need a firmware update. but we are in the day and age of get it out as fast as possible and hope for the best later with a FW update.

I do blame MS for that move. I call it the MS rule.

In this era where our CE devices are little more than special purpose computers this is to be expected.

I work on systems that have zero MS or Intel code on them and have price tags into the hundreds of thousands of dollars. They have firmware updates and patches too.

If you wait until you work all the bugs out; you never release the product.

Besides there will always be a few latent defects that aren't found until they get into a customers hand.

Cheer,s

 

[allargon]

Actually, to get this correct, every BD player will play all the data on the newer BD movies. They might not do the cool PIP with 1.1 Java menus while the movie is playing but you will also have the option to play the material just as you do now -- off a static list. So the only thing you will be missing is the ability to do it while the movie is playing. I don't see this as being much of a problem and I doubt most BD owners do either.

The Sammy 1400 was the first BD player to bitstream HDMI 1.3 audio, no? They did that right. Now, you mentioned Java menus. Many of the standalone players couldn't even play Disney's BD-J stuff. Actually is that still an issue with that $500 Sony BD-S300? I remember some comments from Denon about profile 1.1 discs not being backward compatible to profile 1.0 players. I don't see that cluster fsck happening. Of course, I could see Fox making sure it worked on the PS3 only then blaming all standalone manufacturers again.

FTR, I think the whole TL51 thing *IS* a ploy for HD-DVD to be 1G ahead of Blu-ray especially when the first gen players can play TL45 w/o issue. What I want is QL60 so they can put SD-DVD on two layers and HD-DVD on the bottom two for the ultimate twin. Time will tell.

 

[ONUOsFan]

FTR, I think the whole TL51 thing *IS* a ploy for HD-DVD to be 1G ahead of Blu-ray especially when the first gen players can play TL45 w/o issue.

Of course it is. 51GB for a format with 15GB layers is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Then again, given the general ignorance of the buying public, maybe it will net them something...

 

[JoeSp]

First, we have not seen a 51gb disc anywhere nor have we seen one work. Second, no one will know if these will work on all HD-DVD players as -- well there is no 51gb disc on the market. If Toshiba has this working and it is already done why have they not exibited this anywhere including in their own camp? All we here is that it has been approved by the DVD group with Toshiba saying that it is ready. When one hits the market then we will know how well -or not they work in current players.

Besides, the obvious shortage from HD-DVD is never going to be space -- you can put as many discs in a box as you want -- it is always going to be bandwith. They do not have enough to be a true next gen format. When you can only deliver on half of the medium and you currently cannot promise more -- then what's the point? The HD-DVD group and their fans say that one should not be interested in getting both the best picture and the best sound. Some even suggest that they can not tell the differance between differant audio codecs and that is okay. If I am going to pay top dollar for a movie on a disc and that format has been promising both HD PQ and Lossless Audio Codecs and then I find out that I can have one but not both then am I really getting the best for my dollar? That is the TRUTH that HD-DVD has been promising and not delivering. Maybe we can put the fault at the feet of the studios who support HD-DVD only -- but then whats the real reason?

So what if they put bitstreaming into their best HD-DVD player. If you cannot put DolbyTrueHd or DTSMaster HD on the discs because of bandwith limitations what good is bitstreaming or 51gb discs? Or is it that the HD-DVD forum is just not interested in giving you everthing we were originally promised by this new medium? And before all the redbirds come in here squawking, show me where any BDA manufacturer stated that they would be introducing a completely spec'd out player when they lauched the medium in 2006. And while you are at it -- show me where they never meantioned that BD would be an evoulving format. Oh yeah, and can you do it without the use of the word FUD - which is another way of saying that you really don't know what you are talking about.

 

[CochiseGuy]

I remember some comments from Denon about profile 1.1 discs not being backward compatible to profile 1.0 players. I don't see that cluster fsck happening. Of course, I could see Fox making sure it worked on the PS3 only then blaming all standalone manufacturers again

Actually, I found it a little coincidental that only standalone players that had issues with the new Fox titles were the LG and Samsung players - the two 'renegade', Korean BD player makers with dual format players.

Besides, the obvious shortage from HD-DVD is never going to be space -- you can put as many discs in a box as you want -- it is always going to be bandwith. They do not have enough to be a true next gen format.

That's a pretty ridiculous claim even coming from you. The main reason for the higher bitrate design for BD was to support the use of mpeg2 at very high bitrate. Sony claimed that mpeg2 could produce just as good a result at Mpeg4 & VC-1 when encoded at a very high bitrate. Not suprisingly, Sony owns the lions share of mpeg2 patents & royalties, none for VC-1, and a minority of mpeg4. The early BD releases seemed to contradict Sony's claim, even with mpeg2 at high bitrates. Have you seen any high-def releases in mpeg2 lately?

So what if they put bitstreaming into their best HD-DVD player. If you cannot put DolbyTrueHd or DTSMaster HD on the discs because of bandwith limitations what good is bitstreaming or 51gb discs? Or is it that the HD-DVD forum is just not interested in giving you everthing we were originally promised by this new medium?

I've been enjoying quite a few HD DVDs with TrueHD and DTS-HD MA bitstreamed to my Onkyo 605, thanks for asking.

And before all the redbirds come in here squawking, show me where any BDA manufacturer stated that they would be introducing a completely spec'd out player when they lauched the medium in 2006. And while you are at it -- show me where they never meantioned that BD would be an evoulving format.

No, I beleive Toshiba was the only one promising a completely spec'd out player in 2006. However, I'm not sure the average consumer had that fully explained to him by the blue shirted saints at Best Buy.

 

[diogen]

Some even suggest that they can not tell the differance between differant audio codecs and that is okay.

You mixed up again, some stupid Blu-bloods claim they can hear the difference and see 12bit video in 8bit original... but that's OK, too.

Diogen.

 

[teachsac]

Oh yeah, and can you do it without the use of the word FUD - which is another way of saying that you really don't know what you are talking about.

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck.... You know the rest. Warner has been delivering 1080p, Dolby TrueHD, and IME on many movies for quite a while, how does over a year sound? Universal is now getting into the game as promised offering TrueHD and IME on its upcoming releases. Paramount now has a few movies coming out with TrueHD, also (first for them in either format).

Here is what Warner can do with its upcoming OotP on HD DVD:

1080p Video: VC1
Dolby TrueHD + 3 DDP tracks in various languages
IME: memorable moments, personal perspectives, fun facts
Web enabled features: Pick your favorite scenes AND online screening community (sounds cool), mobile downloads (pass).

S~